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Messages - gusbratz

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31
Listeroid Engines / Re: Are my flywheels typical?
« on: March 07, 2017, 11:18:44 PM »
here are some pics,



32
Listeroid Engines / Re: Are my flywheels typical?
« on: March 07, 2017, 11:11:45 PM »
on my DES 8/1 with aluminum piston I took the flywheels off and cleaned them up like you did. amazing amount of white putty and filler, lots of porosity and holes in the cast. very sad.  any way  to get the key to hang at the bottom I just cleaned the inside of the rim of the wheel and one of the spokes with a grinder where i wanted to remove weight until it hung vertical. then I cleaned off more to get the counterbalance weights the same. it really didn't take much grinding. I used  the string and bucket technique. once they were equal I put them on and ran it and it was way out of balance. I had to add 12oz to each flywheel opposite the counterweight to get it to smooth out. here are my numbers if anybody cares. I found a lot of fun formulas for balancing but in the end they were pointless because  you just add weight to get it to smooth out. pretty simple.

        Piston rings wrist pin & e clips= 4.456 lb
   Entire rod with bushing and bearing= 8.76lb
   Bushing end 3.125lb
   Bearing end 6lb 3zo
   Estimated weight of crank pin 2.5 diam 5.5L 7.65lb
   Bore and stroke 4.49” x 5.49”

After cleaning and grinding to match the weights and get the key to sit on the bottom at rest  the wheels measured as follows:
Front wheel 2lb 8oz counterweight , 136.5lb total weight.
Rear wheel  2lb 8.1oz counterweight 136lb total weight.
Added 12 one oz stick on weights to both the front and rear wheels to smooth the engines running out. The weights were added opposite the counterweight to cancel it out.






33
so I showed my pics to the instrument tech at work and he said looks like the brushes my be pin-arcing. makes sense since it's all so new and they may need to break in. I think I will put some hours on it and check again next year.

34
Other Slow Speed Diesels / Re: air starter
« on: February 13, 2017, 03:55:06 PM »
the more i think about it the main problem with ours was wet station air. we would start an engine and the water would get into the  pilot piston and rust it up. then the engine would run for  6 or 8 months at until it needed something. we would shut it down do whatever then try to start it and half would not open. sometimes beating them with a hammer freed them up. then once the engine stated they would then stick  open and all the fireing pressure from the engine would be blowing up into them. they would strart smoking and the paint would blister off them. the best solution for all this was to plumb all the air lines so they slope away and down from the air starters so the  condensed water would run way from the air starter after a start cycle.

35
Other Slow Speed Diesels / Re: air starter
« on: February 13, 2017, 03:46:20 PM »
i dont know any thing about that engine but i have worked on large IR VGseries gas engines with air starters. they have an air starter valve on each cyl head that mounts just like a diesel injector. it has a 1" 100# air main line conected to it. it also has a small piston in the top that has a 5/16"  piece of tubing connected to it. when pressure is sensed on the pilot tube it opens the pilot piston thus firing the air starter. as long as there is pressure on that small tube the air starter remains open. down on the timeing gears of the enging  there was a mag on one side and an air starter disttributor on the other. the air starter distributor  had a plate inside it with holes in it and bits of 5/16 tubeing comeing off the back going to all the air starters on all 12 cyl's. it was a nightmare to try and fix air leaks on or remove to work on other parts of the engine. it sat there and spun whenever the engine was running but the plate with the holes in it was only pushed in when the air pressure was on it so it didn't really wear. i also remembe 2 big 3 way valves below it. 1 for gas and 1 for the air starters. so starting an engine with out flooding it tended to be a bit of skill as you rolled the engine over then turned on the gas and let off the air and away it went. also there is only so much compressed air in the tank so you had a  couple of shots and then we all stood around for 20 min while the station air built back up if she didn't go.

36
the scope is a little electronics kit you build your self, they send you the board and all the bits in a bag. i guess it takes like 5 hours to solder it together. i paid an extra 5$ and some poor little bastard in china did it. then i bought and assembled the clear case, and also bought a cheap 10x attenuation probe so i could directly measure the line. dso 138 i think it was called.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fully-Assembled-DSO138-2-4-TFT-Digital-Oscilloscope-1Msps-Probe-Adapter-Case-/252531988039?var=&hash=item3acc145647:m:mkTeR0Hmzshj5rMw-h2NtBA

37
hmm, bought it on ebay so return is really not an option. I did take it apart and clean and grease the bearing when i got it. so what did they do wrong in the stator windings that makes it do that? is rewinding the stator an option? would it hurt anything if i just run it like it is?

38
for years we used my hobart champion 10kw welder/generator as a backup generator for when the power was out. we pretty much just run the whole house and show no mercy. usually i try to turn off the electric hot water heater and the pool pump but it has been known to run them both when i was at work.... this last summer the power was out for almost a week and the thing was killing me on fuel so i decided to build a lister cs generator over the winter. Got this built this winter and ran it a bit, I am very pleased with the power of the engine. i have been able to run the whole house and it only drops by about 1 hz. it seems to have plenty of power to spare. I may even change pulleys and lower it down to 650 rpm and see if it can haul the mail as good as it does now. any way it seemed like the lights on the computer power strip were flickering. then a day or 2 after a test run my well pump shit the bed. (it could be by chance as it was over 10 years old). sort of made us question the waveform of the ST head and wonder if it could be improved upon. So i bought a cheap o-scope off ebay from china and a 10x attenuation probe. took a round of readings, then added two 1000 uf DC capacitors to the DC going into the field. I thought maybe that would smooth out the waveform some.  I feel like you can see the capacitors effect on the Z winding and on the rectifier output but they ultimately seem to have no effect on the actual generator output. they don't seem to hurt and maybe they would help with starting the well pump. looking for insight as to weather or not this will help or hurt. here are my scope pics. it was fun anyway and the DSO138 oscilloscope was  well worth the 30$ i have into it, i would buy another one in a hearbeat.

grid power for reference,


hobart 10kw generator no load


hobart 10kw generator running the house


lister/ st head  output  no load, no capacitors


lister/ st head output no load,  2 capacitors on field


lister/ st head output running the house 2 capacitors on field.


Z winding output no capacitors


Z winding output with 2 capacitors on field


DC rectifier +DC output no capacitors on field


DC rectifier +DC output 2 capacitors on field




 

39
Listeroid Engines / Re: possibly my governor is wacky
« on: December 11, 2016, 05:27:15 PM »
i think the tension of the spring has to be the same as your old one for the same speed. you are counteracting the centripital force of the flyweights in the governor. at your rpm they are pulling with X amount of force. when speed droops or overshoots those weights move in and out which in turn move the throttle. I think what is important how  the spring tension drops off or gets stronger as the spring is stretched out or pulled in. more sensitive springs are going to drop off as it's pulled out and it streatches out.  A smarter guy than me could probobly do a bunch of math and figure it all out to exact pounds per inch of stretch and such but from what i have seen here we just experiment with what ever springs we can get our hands on.  in short a stronger spring is going to give you a higher speed while a weaker spring gives a slower speed.  you are adjusting the spring tension by running the little nut in and out to change speed. i think what we need to figure out is how to change the sensitivity of the governor. I know on a K series kohler you use the same spring but move the spring closer to the pivot  point to make it more sensitive.

40
Listeroid Engines / Re: possibly my governor is wacky
« on: December 10, 2016, 06:45:23 PM »
100 years ago babbit was king, you could bore a hole, mock the shaft up in it and pour in babbit. then scrape and hand fit the bearing.  following the general trend of industry there is obviously a reason why babbit bearings fell out of favor across the board. planers, drills presses, saws, small engines... everything used to have babbit. babit is cheaper money wise and more expensive time wise to set up.  I feel that it is not because roller bearings are better, but because they require less setup than babbit to run correctly. they lower manufacturing costs by making it so a monkey can just put the bearings in the holes and bolt the thing together (in a new manufacture setting where everything is already engineered.)   for high load high speed applications a lot of time babbit is still cheaper than precision roller bearings. if you don't believe me try buy a set of bearings to rebuild a surface grinder.

41
Listeroid Engines / Re: DES 8/1 generator build
« on: December 09, 2016, 12:52:05 PM »
was out getting firewood last night because it has cooled off and the ground is nice and frozen. no more mud! any way  I stepped in to check on the listeroid and I see that coolant is weeping out of the head gasket or base gasket (not sure which) and pooling up around the frame.  I got done looking at it and thought what the heck lets just see if she will go. 22*F in my little glass power house. cranked it and flipped the lever and away it went. I was pretty surprised that a diesel with no sort of glow plugs or intake heaters would start in that weather. I certainly haven't been around one. so I warmed it up and then ran the house for 1.5 hours and then shut it down. I am hoping that the coolant leaks will seal up.....

42
Listeroid Engines / Re: possibly my governor is wacky
« on: December 08, 2016, 05:10:12 PM »
i bought those exact springs after I read that thread and put one on my DES8/1. to maintain 850rpm I have to have it all the way out with the adjusting nut cranked to the limit.  it is a weaker spring than my original listeroid spring.  I didn't see any improvement in speed control over the stock spring.

43
Listeroid Engines / Re: DES 8/1 Propane Conversion project
« on: December 01, 2016, 04:01:13 AM »
The stationary gas engines I worked on for the gas company were air start meaning there was an air starter on each cyl and an air distributor to time the air introduction. we would start the engine spinning then once it was up to speed  introduce gas to the mixing valve. once it fired we would shut off the air.  it was like 2 handles attached to 3 way valves and it had the same feel as switching over an old gas start IH dozer from gas to diesel. sort of that satisfying feeling as it came alive.

44
General Discussion / Re: My engine days may be over! :0(
« on: November 30, 2016, 05:48:57 PM »
i don't know a lot about the land down under but i do listen to AC/DC and have seen all the Mad Max movies. based on that info if i were there i would be getting out of the city.

45
he says down in the comments that it only runs for a few minutes to chop enough feed for the cow and buffalo.  so they didn't bother with a cooling system.

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