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Messages - mikenash

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Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Petter AV2
« on: October 13, 2016, 09:27:08 AM »
G'day Starfire.  I have thought of that but not sure I have the fall to do the job.  Got about 1.5 or 2 bar at my site.  But you're right; I should investigate.

Had a spare half hour in the workshop today and got the siezed-in-place COV out of my old head.  Had to drill it out to 14mm and make a puller with a long 1/2" capscrew and nut and a bit of flat and some short capscrews.  Man was it tight.  But now I can have a play with a glow plug once the engine is back in the workshop.


Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Petter AV2
« on: October 12, 2016, 05:44:36 PM »
Yeah, I'm well over the expletive-deleted goddamn rain myself as half my working life is in a paddock . . .

On the bright side I have four days away up at Hampton Downs with the lads to watch the classic and post-classic racing next weekend so that will be extra good

Been watching these alternators . . . sharp pricing.  They started turning up on TradeMe about two days after I ordered and paid for my ST.  I'm not an electronics person so I was attracted to what seemed like the simple/crude operation of the ST

I think I said I'm building a shed/workshop/house as a "retirement" plan up in the sunshine capital of the Bay of Plenty.  No power as it's a bit remote and I fancy solar. By the time I'm there I hope solar will have gotten even cheaper & there will be a good, solid, robust inverter/charger smart unit that wont mind the ugly sine-wave from the ST as an input.  I was hoping to have a setup where solar would do the donkey-work and the Lister/ST would contribute  when I needed a large 230V current or sun wasn't shining

As always I guess the defining factor is how much I am prepared to spend on Deep Cycle . . .

But no hurry.  If there is such a thing as "retirement" for my generation, it's not for a few years yet

Building a compact, well-insulated, well-designed place around a woodstove with wetback, solar hot water, gas hob & califont - keep the kW/hs down lol.  I have good, pump-free, gravity fed water from a spring up the hill so that's a big bonus

Just using the availability of the workshop and facilities at work to get as much built on the cheap as I can . . .


Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Petter AV2
« on: October 12, 2016, 03:22:36 AM »
Heya Dayle.

I'm in the pumping/irrigation industry here (the way it's raining right now I'll be out of a job shortly) so we have a bunch of that stuff in theory - but it's never just the right size - Murphy's law, eh.

There are always pulleys and long B-section belts on TradeMe - I have just set up a search.  No hurry

Don't worry about our Aussie mate - just remember what Muldoon had to say about migration . . .


Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Petter AV2
« on: October 11, 2016, 06:36:33 AM »
USPS Flat-rate shipping up to 70lbs will go to any country in the world for a little under $85.

We generally order and ship these in bulk because of the excessive weights involved and sometimes simply availability issues. Our suppliers do not keep stocks on hand. I would think it probably worth trying to import direct from India... a large portion of our cost is related to import and freight coming into the US.  >:(


Yep.  Thanks.  That's good advice.

I imported the ST head myself from China and it was a lot of mucking about and time at customs etc etc - end cost was about equivalent of $650USD for a 5kW landed and cleared customs & duties etc

i suspect importing one pulley from India may not stack up on the aggravation-versus-savings scale?

I may simply keep looking for just the right B2 pulley here on TradeMe (ebay) with a taperlock centre and have a play.  If the belts annoy me then a serpentine set-up mght be plan "B"

I'll keep thinking about that one . . .

I appreciate the advice.  Thanks, again.

Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Petter AV2
« on: October 10, 2016, 08:13:25 PM »
We stock an 8" K8 pulley (K section, 8-groove) - off the shelf - also stock most sizes from 4.5" through 15".  These use fairly standard automotive type serpentine belts.  The ones we have are for SK QD (tapered) bushings that can be matched to just about any shaft size. These are quite heavy items and are not cheap by any measure (8" is about $185 US with the bushing)... but likely much less than having one built from scratch.


Thanks, Dieselgman - that's an option I guess.  I suspect the freight down here to the bottom of the world might double the cost?  Do you have any idea?  The greenback/$NZ's not too bad at the moment

I'm used to taperlock bushings but had a google and watched a video on those QD ones - different take on the same thinking, I guess

Cheers, Mike

Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Petter AV2
« on: October 10, 2016, 09:07:27 AM »
Let me add an odd tidbit about belts.
I drive a serpentine belt off the flat flywheel, to a 6 groove flat pulley.   Works great for Tom, he's worn the paint off on 6 thin stripes of his flywheel.

I've got a flywheel that's not quite flat, and so I use 10 mil pipe wrap tape (looks like really heavy electrical tape) and make a slight "Crown" on the engine flywheel. (just 2 wraps, that's all)  Then it works like a champ for the season.  Without the tape "crown" the belt wanders all over heck and gone, eventually coming off.

Hi Mike

I have a ST genset sitting waiting to mount with my Lister, and I had considered using a serpentine belt as I reckon it'll be easier to get it to runs straight than with a couple of B-section vee belts.  My genset is 1500 RPM (50HZ) so something like 3:1 overdrive is what I need (diameter around the 200mm-ish mark)

But - short of getting one machined - I can't see anything "off the shelf" like that.  What did you do?

I talked to the turning shop we use and they can do one but it wouldn't be cheap.

Any thoughts?

Cheers, Mike

Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Petter AV2
« on: October 10, 2016, 08:42:26 AM »
Thanks Mike. Was talkng with an old school mechanic yesterday. he mentioned a product called kneedit steel. Its a 2 part epoxy that once mixed it is spread over the fracture and literally pounded into the void with a hammer. He reckoned they have used it in caterpillar engines with great success, Apparently  they suffer major electrolysis problems with some castings eaten away. Something in the water perhaps, this may explain why i look so old and decrepid too.
Evidentally there is kneedit steel, kneedit aluminium, and just plain kneedit. I vaguely remember mixing araldite and aluminium powder together many years ago to fix broken chainsaw handles... so this is a similar thing by the sounds
Hope to be generating power tomorrow, the AV1 is all mounted and almost ready to run. Made new alternator brackets today, renewed all the rubber mounts for the radiator, unsiezed the cooling fan bearing, just need a fuel line, oil, and a few bolts when I hit town in the morning.  Once the batteries are up, will give her a good clean and a coat of paint, makes it easier to work on in the future. I note the Petters are pressure fed, so the old dipper falling into the sump trick aint gunna happen again.  :)
How  is your engine coming along?

I put it aside for a couple of weeks due to pressure on the workshop space (and I had been waiting for a new injector from Rob in Australia as I had finally given up on getting the old one to "fire" consistently)  That injector and a new injector line pipe arrived today so I might get into it over the weekend.  I have been building a workshop/shed/house in the Bay of Plenty (400Ks away) in my "spare" time so have been busier than I like to be.  Built what I hope will be a good base for it and the genset so we will see.  I have been thinking of some insulative but not compressive material between the cast feet and the steel base.  I don't like to tweak up the mounting bolts too hard - it feels like a recipe for broken castings.  Any thoughts?  I cut four sections out of the base where each foot goes and bolted them to the four feet then welded them back into the base to make sure it is mounted "flat" all around but still feel a bit iffy about it - maybe a bit of brass shim or some such?  I'd be interested in your thoughts.  Cheers

Lister Based Generators / Re: ST AVR upgrade
« on: October 06, 2016, 07:36:55 AM »
When electric is the topic I should be sitting on the bench but you might want to try the unit as is prior to adding the AVR?  I think ( maybe bad idea?)  that a 10KW head  is a different animal for feeding house loads than a 3 or 5 due to the fact it is not heavily loaded? Engine governing is of course a huge factor also. My ST head experience is slim as compared to Gary or the off grid folks here  but our stand by set is a 15KW ST powered by a 23HP rattle bang China diesel and I have yet to see the need for an AVR.  We have one of the new fangled processor controlled furnaces, and other house hold gadgets plus the well pump load and we live like the grid power is up when running the stand by set. We keep a Kill-o-watt meter plugged in when ever the standby set is running and the voltage stays at 122-125  I bought those #160 AVRs when we bout the heads (2) and they are still in the box.  Its one of those why add unneeded complication deals with me because when something stops I am challenged to find the problem. You should by an extra rectifier or two because the OEM one will fail under first heavy load  no matter which design it is.  I bought a bag of regular 1050 ( I think, been too long)  Bridge diodes on Ebay for cheap and bolt them to the metal box for heat sink.

That's good advice 36, thanks

I have pretty close to zilch electronic skills and a tin box full of transistors & diodes and gubbins is a mystery to me.  So I'm a fan of KISS


Lister Based Generators / Re: ST AVR upgrade
« on: October 05, 2016, 08:52:15 AM »

I have been looking for an ST at a sensible price for literally years here. Looks like I night be too late to get anything worth while having.

Hi Mr Glort

FWIW I imported one from China to NZ:

$427 USD incl freight to port of Wellington

Something like $170 NZD handling at port

And about $140 NZD customs charges

Cheers, Mike

Lister Based Generators / Re: ST AVR upgrade
« on: October 01, 2016, 07:30:58 AM »
CGG wasn't carrying the 240V units last I knew. Do NOT use the 120V for 240V, at least on the ST-3.  Even that tiny load imbalance makes noises on an ST-3.

The GB-160 AVR design is carried by a lot of sellers in China on ebay.  It is the 240V version identical to the 120V unit CGG carries.  These 240V units have worked well on my neighbor's St-3.  The 120V one from CGG failed in a few months.

The seller is:  ashleytrade1984* (14700 )
99.4% Positive feedback

We ordered a spare recently, worked fine, got it 2 weeks for $24 including free shipping.

By the way, the rheostat should be a one time, fixed adjustment, so long as you can live with a bit of voltage drop between unloaded voltage (set high) and full load voltage.  If you must have constant voltage regardless of load, the AVR is your best choice.

Best Wishes,

Hi guys

I just took delivery of a ST5 from China yesterday down here at the bottom of the world - haven't even opened the crate yet.

I suspected it would have an old-fashioned mechanical voltage control in that dogbox - but maybe not?

I'd be interested in any experience-based thoughts on the things - you hear stories ranging from folks who love the simplicity of design to folks who regard them as only fit to weld a length of anchor chain to . . .

I'd be happy to, say, fit SKF bearings and a modern AVR?

My intention is for it to drive a large 24V charger for the battery bank when the sun isn't shining - and I guess take advantage of it's running to do anything needing the angle grider or the welder at the same time . . .that sort of approach

I'd appreciate any wisdom

Cheers, Mike

Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Petter AV2
« on: September 29, 2016, 08:28:04 AM »
OK, a big day here on the west coast. Tracked down another Petter, this time an AV1. This one complete with radiator and a nice exhaust. Had to literally cut away the old winch from around it with a cutting torch, and lifted it out with a tractor. This one, although very rusty, runs like a dream, despite the small blanking plate on the front shaft of the engine completely rusted through, I can make another one of these easily. The beauty of this one ... it appears to  use identical parts to the AV2 with one cylinder knocked off.
Update on the AV2.
I have to thank 38ac for his suggestion to open the crankcase covers. I did this at first light this morning. The water is trickling in to the sump from a 1/4 inch round hole just above the camshaft at the front cylinder. Im suspecting a crack, or more likely a corrosion hole because its round. Im going to keep this engine, and when I have time will remove the cylinders and perhaps bronze weld the offending hole.... theres not many other ways to repair cast iron, but bronzing should fix it Im picking. The engine  seems to have done very little work.
Some pics.

Dayle, re welding that cast - I saw an interesting short video of a chap using an arc welder and, presumably an RSP or similar rod, to repair a casting.  He had it all ground clean and he just made a short run - maybe an inch? - and peened the crap out of it as it cooled/shrank.  Then he waited until the mass of cast had sucked up all the heat and did another short run . . . that was his way of getting around the pre-heating/cooling/cracking cycle.  And because it was an arc process it could be positional . .

Good luck with the engines.  I'll watch with interest.


the AV1

Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: A very sad day
« on: September 26, 2016, 08:55:33 AM »
Not easy Mike.... I moved heaven and earth to get her running again. I refitted the old worn cylinder head because I just could not move the COV to change it over, this will be a job for the new owner.
This venture uses up all my spare parts collected over the years.
Will post pics soon of the new Petter once installed and running, and a few of the Nissan TD when I get that closer to finished as well.
Right now I need to catch up on other work.

I hear you

I have a COV that just WIIL NOT come out.  I drilled the hole out to 1/2", went down to the shops and bought a nice grade 12 or whatever they are 12mm X 120mm capscrew and am in the process of making a puller to apply some serious pressure.

In the interim I had to buy a new head. 

Ah well

I'll be interested to see how you do with the Lister-Petter - still going to use 24V via a pair of alternators?


Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: A very sad day
« on: September 25, 2016, 07:17:32 PM »
Today I said good bye to an old friend. My  loyal companion for so many decades breathed her  last. After the con rod oil dipper unknowingly snapped  from a metal fatigue fracture, she continued to soldier on, not complaining or giving  any outward signs of distress, eventually loosing all compression and quietly  coming to rest. There is over 3mm play in the big end,  the piston has nearly 1/8 inch play in the cylinder. Rather than seize through lack of lubrication, she continued to run and  give me her very best right to the end.
 Rather than scrapping her, she will take pride of place on my back lawn as a monument to reliable dependability and how life used to be.
She was 77 years old.

Yeah, i saw the TradeMe.  Was that you Dayle?  New Nissan engine?  Interesting

Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: CS 3/6/8 - 1 rebuild
« on: September 23, 2016, 01:20:41 AM »
Hey Mike,

I had a scratch around the pics I have on file and found this one, top/oblique view of the friction start.... Listeroid Pics/220v Friction Start.jpg

Not a great pic, but it might give u the idea....


Thanks Ed

That's another wonderfully simple idea.

I used to use a forklift tyre attached to a big reduction drive to spin the timber sorting table in a sawmill - used a truck-type suspension bladder to push it against the driven surface - quite a bit of smoke if you tried to start it when the table had a few tonnes of timber on board lol

I have just bought an automotive flex-plate and starter to tinker with, and we'll see how that goes

otherwise your set-up is a goodie

Thanks for getting back to me

Cheers, Mike

Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: CS 3/6/8 - 1 rebuild
« on: September 21, 2016, 09:21:25 PM »
Hi Stef!

I think that would be superb what you have done gone and done... (Hows that for a convoluted a reply!)

As to oiling into the "oil here" hole, I wouldn't worry... Others can correct me if I am wrong, but I only use the "oil here orifice" when the engine has been standing a substantial length of time, for daily startup, u shouldn't need to worry... If its a "Show" engine, a quick dash of oil prior to running would be all that is required,along with the general slop over the rockers and links before you wind it up... Possibly install one of those "Lathe-Bed type Oil cups".... Makes life a bit easier and simpler in the long run...(As well as keeps the grit out too! More often than not, grit from a spanner ends up in a machine uninvited!)

Actually, come to think of it, I haven't used the "Oil Here" hole for many moons.... Even after standing.... I simply turn my beast over for an extended period on the 220v starter motor until it gets well and truly juiced up...... The friction starter spins it over at about 100RPM or so(Guestimated of course!)....


Hey Ed

What's the 220V friction starter?  I'd be interested to see an image if there is one?  Or some details?

Thanks, Mike

PS - the projects are still piling up...Life is fun!! Last quickie was a Timney on a 30-06...and change the cyl head on TM1, and replace the head gasket, and clean the radiator header tank, and sort a leak on the oil pump, and de-carbon the exhaust, and clean up the driveway after the de-carbon job, and.......Damn, no wonder I'm knackered!

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