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Messages - mikenash

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631
Listeroid Engines / Re: Theory/Principles?
« on: June 26, 2018, 09:49:38 AM »
Just google "Indian Listeroid diesel engines" and spend a couple hours looking at all the advertising stuff from the many Indian makers of these modern "copies" of the original Listers

Then go to:

https://www.oldtimerengines.com.au/lister-engine-parts/lister-cs/

and :

http://www.centralmainediesel.com/order/lister-parts.asp

and you will see what the component parts of these very simple engines are, and that every part you could ever need is available, cheap, off-the-shelf, and of good-enough quality

A quick description:

What you are looking at is a Lister CS (cold start) single-cylinder, water-cooled, indirect-injection diesel.  It has a cam-driven, piston-operated, mechanical injector pump and conventional injector unit.  There are no electrics or electronics.  Although the design is very sophisticated it is also very simple and unbelievably robust.  They are designed to be able to be properly maintained by the "village blacksmith".  Lubrication is by splash and simple, no-pressure oil-pump.  Cooling is by thermosiphon

Since they are of very very heavy and very good quality cast-iron construction, and since they run at 600 RPM, they are very long-lived

People like me and others here like them because they were genuinely made to be endlessly re-buildable, but are quite capable of giving many thousands of hours of reliable service between rebuilds

There are no detail drawings extant that I am aware of

But if you are willing to help yourself by looking at the sites I have suggested and doing some reading, you will easily gain a good understanding of what they are and what they do

632
Listeroid Engines / Re: Theory/Principles?
« on: June 26, 2018, 08:35:25 AM »

633
Everything else / Re: Changes to Energy Generation
« on: June 25, 2018, 12:27:21 AM »


Gee.  $160 billion of our little wee $NZ dollars.  Our GDP last year was $NZ 186 billion lol

You guys oughta come live down here in NZ.  It's nice

Most recent stats show we have enough extra generation capacity - small hydro/wind/geothermal - already in the consent stages to cover the electricity requirement of a national fleet of electric vehicles, even if the uptake is faster than is anticipated

A fascinating topic IMHO

Cheers

634
General Discussion / Re: Myths: Turning off lights to save power.
« on: June 24, 2018, 10:53:32 AM »


(*) As soon as the hallway/stairwell is completed. Took the old wallpaper & wood down in 1998. Currently waiting to be re-instated. Maybe next year...

Goddamn I so relate to that decorating timeframe lol

635
General Discussion / Re: Myths: Turning off lights to save power.
« on: June 20, 2018, 08:31:32 PM »

Bruce & Casey are right-ish imho

I am unable to resist the lure of the scroll-down, myself

Bruce I wonder if folk's resistance to examining the effect the modern environment may have on health is simple "don't want to know"

Sort of parallel with your feelings on EMF issues I often wonder if the manipulated and highly-processed nature of the food we eat (specifically the modified starches perhaps) is a big single factor in health issues such as obesity and intolerances.  I suspect it might be, but also suspect a lot of folks just "don't want to know" maybe

Perhaps like Jondoh & his musical tastes I still listen to lots of '70s stuff and was recently showing a friend some Woodstock footage (yeah, I know it was '69).  Tens of thousands of young people standing around with their shirts off and all what we would call "skinny" these days.  Only a half-century ago

Just a thought

636
Listeroid Engines / Re: My God! Can't old posts go away!
« on: June 20, 2018, 08:17:52 PM »
I have long since lost track of the OP, but I guess he has done us a favour in "allowing" an even more rambling, topic-free post than is normal

Jondoh, you are right.  Life is for living, not just existing'

"cheers"

637
Listeroid Engines / Re: My God! Can't old posts go away!
« on: June 20, 2018, 03:46:44 AM »
I am also a believer in free speech


Yes, well, those masses do seem to be comprehensively huddled

638
Lister Based Generators / Re: 6Kw Markon
« on: June 19, 2018, 12:43:51 AM »


Hi Ed

Good thoughts, thanks

I had a look at the fan and the vanes are flat, so I think it's probably direction-neutral, as you say

Cheers, Mike

639
Saw an old Cat diesel genset for sale a while back - made in the '50s.  Owner described it as having been "boringly reliable in daily service for the last thirty years & anticipated the new owner would find it equally boringly reliable for another 30 . . ."

640
Lister Based Generators / Re: 6Kw Markon
« on: June 18, 2018, 01:12:34 AM »

Hi there Ed, Bob and others

see - I knew you guys would know . . .

Inside the old dogbox two of the four wire out of the Markon were twisted together and wound with insulating tape.  That'd be "series" then . . .

See pic below?  That's the original coupling.  And the bit at the motor end is 40mm with a 10mm keyway, fortuitously.  I'll talk to the machinist up the road and see how badly he'll overcharge me for a foot of 40mm with a couple of keyways

I have  John Deere multigroove pulley I'd like to use, as I like the "flat" belts and have a big flat drum bored-and-keyed for a CS output shaft that is probably close to 3:1 to the John Deere one.  I'll have a measure-up and a think

Does anyone have thoughts on whether that head "cares" about direction of rotation?

I'll see if I can find a microfarad man to look at the capacitor

Cheers


641
Lister Based Generators / start - o matic solenoids
« on: June 17, 2018, 07:40:27 PM »

642
Lister Based Generators / Re: 6Kw Markon
« on: June 15, 2018, 03:15:04 AM »

G'day Tiger

No.  Not a starter/generator

The Briggs and Stratton engine driving it had an electric start and I wondered if two of the Markon wires were taking 12VDC from the 12V starter solenoid at the Briggs

Cheers

643
Lister Based Generators / Re: 6Kw Markon
« on: June 15, 2018, 01:14:33 AM »

OK guys.  I know there are brains out there - bear with me a moment while I pick some of them, please

And excuse what, to many of you, will sound like stupid questions

(I have attached a pic of the innards of the gen head at the end where the big capacitor is)

The previous owner has un-wired this unit from its petrol engine using side-cutters; but by looking at the innards of the dog-box and chasing the wires backwards, some things are obvious (I think)

So, firstly, some observations/clues . . . . then, secondly, some questions

Electrical observations:

OK - inside the dogbox there's a paired 35A circuit-breaker,  a rotary three-position main switch (which is largely about the electric starting & maybe running the engine without output from the head, perhaps?),  a three-pin plug outlet,  a voltmeter, an hour-meter and an ammeter.   There's nothing odd in there; nothing that might be an AVR or anything like that

Looking at the head, at the shaft end there's a cast cover I could take off for a look, but it looks as if it may be a carrier for one of the bearings and a dust-seal, so I have left it alone for the moment.  Of course the bearing may have a carrier behind that, and it may just hold the seal?

Looking inside any of the places I can see, I see no evidence of a slip-ring and brushes (if they are there, maybe they're behind that cast cover I just mentioned?)  Maybe the unit is brushless?

Looking at the four black, numbered, wires coming out, I would guess two of them are 230VAC and perhaps two are 12VDC?

Two of them (one and four) go to the top of two halves of the paired 35A circuit-breaker and the corresponding wires coming out of the bottom of it go to (black) the three-pin-plug and (red) the ammeter/main rotary switch

So, since I think I know what one and four do,  maybe it's a safe guess that two and three were originally attached to the loom where all the starting gubbins for the Brigs and Stratton live and that they effectively connect to the 12V battery there?

Mechanical observations:

Firstly, there doesn't appear to be any discernable axial or radial play - not that I can feel, and the hour-meter says 150 hours, so maybe things haven't done much work

The input shaft of the head seems to be 22mm with a 6mm key.

I was hard-coupled through a splined coupler to the 16HP Briggs and Stratton

So - enough with observations - now to stupid questions:

Looking at the capacitor end and the ID plate, is that enough for someone to identify the head?  Does it have brushes or is it brushless?

If it's brushless, does it care about direction of rotation?

That 22mm shaft seems small, to me.  My thought was to just attach a suitable pulley(s).  Then I wondered if, since it was direct-coupled, it's maybe not designed to tolerate the radial loads of a belt drive?  Could there be direct-couple models and belt-drive models?  it seems unlikely, but worth asking

Those four wires suggest maybe it needs 12VDC to excite?  Of course I could have that dead wrong.  But, if it does, where could I look inside to see which might be pos and which might be neg?

I think that covers it for now.  I'd appreciate the fruits of anyone's wisdom and experience

Thanks, Mike

644
General Discussion / Re: oil burners
« on: June 15, 2018, 12:00:15 AM »
 +1 there Bob

I remember very well the clusters of belts all cable-tied together along the shafts, and the old pillow blocks that had craked their housings and were now held down with a bit of flat bent into an arc over the top of whatever remained of the cast block & bolted down

One thing we did that I really like, though, was we standardised the outputs of most of our reduction drives to things like conveyors and just put an A40 bet on a couple of pulleys as a fuseable link.  Often the smell of fried belt - or the puff of smoke - would alert you that some monkey had jammed a belt even before anyone had noticed the timber had stopped flowing - we got extra good at changing them in seconds.  A $4 belt was much better than a $2400 drive as a sacrifice to the Gods of Stupidity

645
General Discussion / Re: oil burners
« on: June 14, 2018, 06:54:51 PM »
Couple of thoughts fwiw:

That tyre drive is widely used in the timber industry; but only at low low speeds - you might have balance issues at higher speeds?  Where we have used tyres to drive timber roundtables I have fitted forklift tyres for their small size and rigidity

Shaft and bearings?  Unless you get it exactly exactly right, more than two bearings on a shaft can be asking for trouble with mis-alignment and premature bearing failure.  imho a heavy shaft and just a couple of bearings might serve you better?

just my $0.02.  Cheers

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