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Messages - Bolton Power Equipment

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Lister Market Place (things for Sale) / Re: New Listeroids for sale
« on: May 17, 2019, 02:26:03 PM »

       You are correct, Chinese tractors and Listeroids are apples and oranges, but I'm not trying to compare them 1 for 1. The goal is to import the product within an acceptable performance envelope. That requires some level of consistency. I'm not  trying to improve the over all quality because with hand built machines and no modern machining technology thats not an achievable "ask". The Chinese tractor is a much more complex machine than a CS so to broaden the envelope you must improve quality. Thats possible in China, I watched it happen over the 20 years I imported them. The approach with the CS was to over design the things, basically throwing material at it. My approach as I mentioned earlier in other posts is to ask the manufacturer to add manufacturing steps and features that will keep the product within an acceptable quality envelope. These things are so over designed it's ridiculous, a 10 Hp engine that weighs close to 1/2 a ton... I'm aware of the cherry picking that could have occurred if I'd told the vendor they were for evaluation so I didn't.  I told them it was a one time purchase for "the farm". I wanted off the shelf product. I'm well aware of others failing to "bring up Rajkot quality". I'm an engineer by training so I look at problems in the context of root causes and practical processes to resolve. I think others have failed looking at trying to change Indian process to meet their requirements. I prefer to adapt my requirements to meet Indian process. So I have and will continue to add features that they are capable of adding to their process to align with my requirements. I can't comment of the other manufacturing incongruities you mention because I haven't seen them. Another thing to note is that there are many manufacturers and the prices vary quite a bit. But as always you get what you pay for so I don't shop by price. The CS market in India has softened so the committed manufacturers in India are looking for new markets. They want to re-invigorate the US market so I believe they will try hard to cooperate, it's in their best interest. My approach will be to give them a path forward that they can navigate to grow the business. I can't promise that there will be no issues but I will stock parts and make good on any problem. I do however believe that my adaptive approach is a practical path forward considering the realities of Listeroid manufacturing in India.

Lister Market Place (things for Sale) / Re: New Listeroids for sale
« on: May 16, 2019, 10:06:42 PM »
I havenít sold any yet, hence the ďramping upĒ in my first post. I wouldnít use a customer as a test bed. I donít sell equipment unless Iím comfortable with what it is and what it does. Iíve spent the last 4+ years testing to make sure these machines are reliable and what I get from the factory is repeatable. When I started importing the Chinese tractors I didnít sell them for 3 years because I wanted to run through 2 growing seasons to see how they performed in the fields, plus a couple of winters for cold starts and plowing. 20 years later I still have most of the spares I ordered because they were so reliable. For the Listeroids I wanted to run them at no-load, partial-load and heavy-load for extended periods, 24-36 hours continuously with at least 100 thermal cycles over time. The heads are big and have a lot of mass. I wanted to heat and cool them many times to test the head bolts and make sure they were consistently well within their plastic range so they didnít lose the head gasket as the parts expanded and contracted. What I found was no leakage, zero. I also wanted to measure oil usage under different load conditions. I wanted to check the particulates in suspension in the lube oil after ďXĒ hours of runtime. Which oil seems to work best?  I wanted to check hot starts and cold starts in the winter, in humid conditions and in summer. The only issue I found on one machine  was an oil pump that wept about Ĺ teaspoon of oil every 10 hours of run time or so. It was a bad stem seal and being an external pump took about 30 minutes to replace. After 4+ years of testing not a single critical failure, No seal leaks (other than the one pump), no fueling system issues, no abnormal clearance wear (bearing lash), no valve gear issues, no need to adjust the valves, no issues with the transfer valve leaking, no visible smoke at no or low load after break-in and warm-up. They do take 10-20 hours of run-time to seat the rings. Until they do, they smoke a little but after break-in they are remarkably clean. The only issue other than the oil pump was the leather ďVĒ belts which stretch so I replaced them with green stripes. That was about it. So Iím comfortable that these things are pretty much bullet proof and Iím ready to sell and support them.  Iíll tell you one thing I did not expect was the stability of the governors. I expected that the ďKĒ factor of the springs and the masses of the centrifugal weights would be all over the map and the speed would drift a lot under varying loads when used as an A.C. generator. That didnít happen. I loaded the generators to 50% and only lost about 40 - 50 rpms on a 1,000 rpm engine. Thatís only about 2 Hz drop. So setting the governor to run no-load at 62 Hz is well within electrical tolerance and speed limits for the ST alternator head and any residential load. I was amazed at how well the governors worked. I did not expect them  to work that well. Bottom line these Listeroids will make incredibly reliable and stable off-grid and/or emergency power generators.

Lister Market Place (things for Sale) / Re: New Listeroids for sale
« on: May 14, 2019, 02:05:38 AM »
No they are Indian but the question was raised about how I would manage consistency of quality and how I came to mention the design reliability. I imported Chinese 70 - 80 year old technology for 25 years where there are a lot of similarities. My point was a similar approach.

Lister Market Place (things for Sale) / Re: New Listeroids for sale
« on: May 13, 2019, 09:40:29 PM »
I'm hoping to replicate my success with importing from China. Another thing I will do as things ramp is make regular visits to the vendor(s). After more than 30 years of working with and in Asia I've learned how important face time and personal relationships are. I traveled to China once or twice a year to maintain the relationships. The units will be built and tested in India but delivered here as compressors with parts kit from the full build in India for EPA requirements.

Lister Market Place (things for Sale) / Re: New Listeroids for sale
« on: May 13, 2019, 06:35:56 PM »
Bare crackcase is better still, since slapping chaulky filler and epoxy over sand filled voids is well within Rajkot standards. Nothing you are attempting regarding Rajkot has not been tried before.  They are incapable of maintaining any sort of quality control from one batch to the next.  An honest seller would sell them as a kit of parts to be inspected carefully during the build, and replaced as needed.  You should remove the 50,000 hrs, it makes you seem either naive or a con man.

Iíve been doing this for 25 years and I know what works when importing equipment from the developing world. You are correct, delivering on specific quality metrics is a problem with hand built machines. Thatís why Iím not asking for specific quality metrics. Iím asking for simple procedures during the build that embed the quality factors Iím looking for. That can be consistently done. If the inside of the crankcase is cleaned and painted with a heavy epoxy paint you arenít going to have a problem with sand. I havenít found a sand problem with a Listeroid in the 5 or so years Iíve been doing this. As far as communicating my needs to the vendor, I ask for consistency with a clear and honest understanding that the next order is always dependent on the last order. In the 25 years I imported diesel engines and other equipment from China, that was the understanding and I was never disappointed. If however you are a one-off buyer that understanding does not apply. Iím not a one-off buyer. Indian businessmen are as pragmatic as anyone else. They want repeat business.
As far as being an ďhonest sellerĒ, my products are warrantied. If you have a problem Iíll make good on fixing it, whatever it takes.
As far as the 50,000 hrs. These engines are built like tanks. I have Chinese diesels that I bought back in the 90ís and they are still working hard. Not only have none of them broken, they hardly even leak. These engines were designed mostly in the 30ís while Listers were designed even earlier and are even more over-designed for durability. Iíve read that Listers were designed for a 50,000 hr. MTBF and that wouldnít surprise me.
Most customers donít want to build from parts, thatís why they buy pre-built and tested units like mine. Itís my belief that doing what I do yields the same or better customer satisfaction than building from a bare crankcase would with a lot less time and aggravation.

Lister Market Place (things for Sale) / Re: New Listeroids for sale
« on: May 06, 2019, 02:59:51 AM »

Mike 90045

What will the change-over kit consist of ?  new camshaft?
          Same Cam. "Accessory" kit includes pump, lines, tank, injector etc.

What is the oiling system  Splash or pump & splash ?
          Pump and Splash

What grade sand is included in the internal paint pockets #20 ?  #40 ?
         The interiors of the crankcases are steam cleaned and painted with epoxy paint before the build. Haven't found any loose sand yet,    

Lister Market Place (things for Sale) / New Listeroids for sale
« on: May 05, 2019, 08:17:31 PM »
Hello All,

        We're ramping up importing new Listeroids configured as compressors. These will have all available upgrades including bronze idler gears, water pumps, thermostats and Bendix gear starters. We will be offering custom steel "C" channel frames and ST or Stanford power heads with control boxes, if requested. We are located in Massachusetts in the US. We will deliver locally in New England and drop ship anywhere else in the US. We are looking at the next load for delivery in mid-July this year. This forum is active with folks looking for Listeroids so I thought I'd post and see if any forum participants are interested in ordering from the next load?  http://www.boltonpowerequip.com  Please feel free to post here or drop us a note on the Website.

Bolton Power Equipment

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