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Messages - Dieselsmoker

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31
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« on: July 30, 2017, 05:43:20 PM »
So at long last the Lister's alcohol problem is something of the past. The Magnum Cream Liqueur fuel tank is gone!

A friend of mine found this old tank on a farm lying in a field along with some other scrap.


Badly rusted and full of dents - had to silver solder some holes closed where the tank rusted through.


Quickly slapped together a fuel fitting. I was promised a brass fuel cock that I'll fit later.


Fabricating the brackets:


At the panelbeater:


It's got a tank!!!! 8) ;D
I was lucky to find a cap at the lawnmower shop that fitted just perfectly.






Next to-do is the wiring. Looking at the quotes I got thus far I'll have to rob a bank to afford everything... The plan it to fit a volt meter, ammeter, hour meter and a reed frequency meter along with a plug outlet. 
Stickers ordered from SEP a week or so ago. (They should arrive here in about 3 weeks' time.)

32
General Discussion / Father's day treat - RSME Visit
« on: June 18, 2017, 07:11:46 PM »
Today is Father's day, and since I got to have the final say how and where our family would spend the day, the decision was quite easy  ;D First prize would be to be in tow behind a Class 15F, http://www.reefsteamers.com/css/News/2016/2016.011.19%20The%20Return%20of%203046.mp4, but that idea is on ice for a while due to various reasons.

Next best - but even better in some ways: A visit to The Rand Society Of Model Engineers
They are about a hour's drive away from where I stay.


A slightly smaller version engine did duty today  ;)
https://youtu.be/mkQM2V3uNeU


Railway Station:



Apparently the "day to go" is on the first Sunday of a month. Then there are many more locomotives, and the engine museum is also opened and the engines are started. (I saw these running a couple of years ago and definitely worth the trip to go see). Pity I missed it this time round, but I'll go back soon.

I took some pics inside the engine room:

1925 Ruston Hornsby Size 7 Class H Oil engine
Bore: 250mm
Stroke: 457mm
Swept volume: 23L
Mass: 8.95T


1911 Deuts E12


Tangye FL9B Oil engine

28HP @ 330 rpm
Bore: 220mm
Stroke: 408MM
Swept volume: 15.5L


1929 Blackstone
Spring injection Diesel


Blackstone Oil engine
50HP @ 450 rpm


Hornsby
Petrol


1926 Petter S Oil engine
12-14 bhp @ 525rpm
Driving a 50Hz 3kVa 230V alternator



National gas engine




1898 Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine




33
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« on: June 17, 2017, 05:47:23 PM »
Rewinding a couple of months, and finishing off those small unfinished jobs:

(Swivel design and manufacturing on page 7)
The weight of the engine and the snug fit of the swivel assembly makes the keeper plate almost unnecessary, but if I was ever to transport the engine, the danger and possibility of the swivel parting becomes a possibility.

Trolley swivel pin protruding:


I machined a recessed keeper washer from a piece of plate I had lying around:


Feeling much better now. No chance of the swivel jumping out. I'm very pleased with the smoothness and rigidity of the swivel. I have to maneuver the trolley down a small ramp to get it out of the garage, and even under a cross axle situation there is no binding.


Next: Air cleaner.
(Air cleaner installation, page 9)

This is what the initial installation looked like:
Of course the pre-cleaner can never function properly orientated like this...


I was very fortunate to get a 76mm Donaldson elbow to mount the pre-cleaner right way up!


and lastly...
the "anti-splash" tank.
That was the original drum's lid. I cut of the tabs and put a hole in the center. Banged it into the drum and rubberized it in position.
I am now able to increase the water level and no splashes! The drum is still able to breathe to let steam off to get rid of excess heat.

34
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« on: June 17, 2017, 05:12:50 PM »
.......In my day ( just after the advent of electricity) You had a 6 or an 8. I was poor and only had a 6 but I was a little bit smart, I did the suspension and the brakes which back then was cheaper than engine mods.  Most guys could get me in a straight line but put in just one bend and I had them every time.
I was born in the wrong era.... I could choose between a 4, a 4 or a 4...  >:(

I love watching the YT vids with idiots in hot cars showing off in crowds and putting the things into poles or ditches or brink walls. Unfortunately there are also plenty where they put them into other cars and people. No one I knew EVER did that because somehow as stupid as we were, we weren't that dam stupid.
Ha! If I'm not watching engine or tractor videos I also end up at the sideways Mustangs.  ;D

Of course there are still those that Drive V8's. Most of the real Dipshits round here Drive Mercedes C63's. It's what all the successful Drug dealers with any Cred drive and there are no shortage of the filthy scum round here let me tell you. The kingpins seem to Drive G wagons......
Of course nothing wrong with those cars, but almost none of the owners appreciates them. It's all about image. Down here we have other scum driving these cars, but lets leave that discussion for another day. I'm in a good mood at the moment and things can get ugly if I start...

I love that look on your engine! That's serious hard arse old skool.
I am wanting to do a bit of decorative metal work soon. I'll have a go at finishing the work the same way. I pointed that look out to my wife on a candelabra thing we saw in a shop on the weekend and she loves it too.  Now I know how to do it and can score some brownie points. :0)
Thanks. I had to mention before - the gloss finish you see in the video fades to a matt, and adds to the old look.

35
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« on: June 14, 2017, 01:38:11 PM »
I use this stuff on my CNC mill: http://www.lubetechshop.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=25_51&products_id=249

I've had the same mix sat in the sump for over 2 years now (occasionally it gets topped up due to evaporative or sprayed-all-over-the-operator losses...), no bio or stink problems at all. It does have some slideway oil floating around in it, but presumably not enough to form a skin (it's the anaerobic microbes which case the bad smells). If you're UK based and want a litre of the stuff to play with, let me know, I've still got some in the barrel.
I think this is definitely in the right direction of what I have in mind.
Thanks for the offer, but I'm at the other end of the globe... (South Africa)
 
Not sure synthetic was even around back then. If it was, I either hadn't heard of it or certainly couldn't afford it!
I did do it thoroughly and used only new engine oil.  :0)
"Back then" nothing was synthetic... Now everything is and that's why we play with Listers and not Hondas*  ;)
*I do own a couple - lol
They quoted me R90 /liter and at a 95:5 (or 19:1) I'll need roughly 3 liters. (That is R270.00 or 17.55 Pounds or $21.39)

.........Of course the smell of burning rubber back then was a daily occurrence then for most young guys so the smell of fish oil was never too bad.
This story sound so familiar. Now the focus is more on bling and sound systems  ::)

Guess if you were real worried about the odour you could always put some fragrant oil in with it.
Eucalyptus would be very Orstraian for us down under. Maybe Rose petal oil for Californians and sump oil for people who live in Detroit?
For the poms maybe Chamomile or peppermint.  Ed would like his Miscreant scented because he would get a warm fuzzy feeling every time he got a whiff knowing the source thereof that was ground up and distilled.  :0)
;D ;D

Veg oil also dries off and goes plastic like. .......
I use "Boiled Linseed Oil" to protect wood and metal surfaces. I also absolutely love the smell of it. It takes forever to dry properly, but it forms a real good protective layer.

Here is a video of my Fairbanks-Morse ZC208
(Sorry the video is a little dark)
https://youtu.be/9nOrPSNdLd0

I'll have to let you in on a little secret of mine to explain why it looks the way it does: When I rebuild this engine (from scrap), I wanted to retain some of it's old world looks and not paint and polish it like I've done with the Lister. It had to look a bit like it was still in it's working clothes, but it still had to look nice. Unfortunately the original paint was all gone and it was rusted red... so I cleaned it and started experimenting. I ended up polishing the whole engine with Zebo Stove Polish (Terrible black stuff!! Tip: wear gloves). After that I sponged the whole engine and the engine cart with Boiled Linseed Oil. Absolutely nobody has been able to explain the finish on it  ;)

36
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« on: June 14, 2017, 11:12:07 AM »
Y'know, our old mate Starfire - who ran that old 3/1 over on the West Coast of New Zealand as his sole generator for maybe seven or eight years - said leave some oil floating on top of the coolant water to radically reduce evaporative loss.

It wouldn't surprise me if it left an oily residue on the tank surface?
Makes sense that the layer of oil will achieve that, but I see two potential problems with that:
At work we have various fairly large lathes and turning centres with water coolant systems. Over time the mineral lubricating oil used on slideways and some leaks on the machines forms a oil layer on top of the water. The moment the surface is sealed off to "breathe", the water quickly goes bad. AND STINKS!!! There are nowadays anti-bacterial additives in the soluble oils to combat this, but the best fix is to skim the oil off every now and then with a vacuum cleaner.

It would probably not make a massive difference, but there will be loss of cooling capacity if the water cannot evaporate. I think I mentioned this earlier - my '42 Fairbanks-Morse 8Hp engine is hopper cooled, and it is required for the water to boil to achieve proper cooling. Something like ant-boil / anti-freeze in the water will thus cause the engine to overheat. A Lister can of course never get THAT hot!

Or you could do as I have done and use a copper hot water cylinder?
Oh yes! I love the look of the copper cylinders! But I can't find one to save my life... First prize for me would be a brass or copper radiator... But for now I'm making the best of the old grease drum  :D :D


For many years I ran a mixture of engine oil and detergent in my Vehicles cooling system.

I was basically trying to make soluble oil and seemed to achieve that. 
I worked. Never had any rust or corrosion in that cast iron engine.  <<SNIP>>

Dissolved the oil with the detergent to make a white mix and put it in with a new radiator.  Never had a cooling problem in the 3.5 years I had the car and never saw a speck of rust or scale. and I looked.  Frequently.
Interesting idea... I'm busy exchanging e-mails with one of our local oil suppliers and it seems like they have something synthetic that will do the job BUT at a price. Pity communication is not too good so I can't tell you much more now - I'll probably have to go there when I get time.


From what I did see the oil seemed to permeate the scale that was left and neutralize it.  Bit like fish oil. Had some rust in that car when I got it and I blew fish oil into it with an old spray gun turned way up so the oil was like a fog and that rust never moved. I pointed it out to the guy I sold the car to who was very pleased I had done it as he always did it to his cars too. <<SNIP>>
So I've never worked with fish oil before and inSTINCtively (excuse the pun) I'm thinking that your car now smells like dead fish??  :P ;D :o
Why fish oil? Does it go dry or sticky - unlike mineral oil?


Quote
How about using central heating inhibitor in a car cooling system? That's designed to prevent rust/scale, on dissimilar metals too (copper pipe/steel radiators/brass valves). I haven't looked at it myself, it rarely gets hot enough in the UK to bother a modern car's cooling system.
I'll never try out anything other than the OEM coolant additives in my car. It works well in our extremes of cold winters and hot summers, and the cost is not that high either. The coolant has a number of jobs to to, and if you miss one the repair bill could be ugly. (Anti-boil / anti-freeze / anti-corrosion + Water pump lube)
I recently changed the coolant on my 4.0 V6 Toyota. First coolant service was scheduled for 170,000 kms. The slow service frequency gives me one less thing to worry about. I like that  ;) More time to tinker with my toys.

37
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« on: June 13, 2017, 11:56:27 AM »
It's been a while since I've been here - except for the occasional visit to just have a peek to see what's going on on the forum. I've also been busy every now and then to replace all the broken picture links from when the gallery went down. What a job, but almost done.

I've recently started working on the 6/1 again to tick off the last small items from the to-do list.
The cooling tank rusted through (weird), so I had to make a new one and rubberised it this time. Water splashing out has always irritated me and I experimented with a couple of ideas while on the subject. I think I nailed it with the last attempt!  8)  I'll take some pictures over the weekend after it's finished off and post it here.

I'm not too keen on putting anti-freeze in the tank as splashes are bound to happen during transport and loading - and you all know what will happen to that precious paint job  :o  I wonder if I can put some soluble oil in the water to keep the water fresh and clean and stop corrosion inside the engine? It should work? (providing it doesn't eat the rubberising in the tank...) Anyone done this or know of something that will work?


38
Very nice engine... I could lay my hands on a 5/1 or a 6/1 within a few days if I started searching right now, but those twins elude me... I picked up a for sale add once but it was already sold by the time I reacted. I've personally never seen a twin so my interest is instinctively sparked when I see one. Enjoy!

39
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Dismantling the Bookham 12/2 CS
« on: November 16, 2016, 12:30:58 PM »
Hi Samo.
It's probably a repaired flywheel. What does the crankshaft look like? Is the diameter still standard? Maybe stepped down from the bearing journal to the flywheel journal? Keyway the same width as the other side?

Quite a neat modification to save the crank and flywheel. One could also use this plan to save a damaged crack by grinding the whole journal down and making undersize main bearings -- although arc spraying on the journal and going back to standard would probably make more sense. It's no quick job to make those bearings!



40
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« on: November 14, 2016, 07:03:32 AM »
With the Lister project done it feels almost strange not to be asking any questions or posting updates on this forum... I just have a small update on what I've been up to.

The Lister runs perfectly and it must feel like a celebrity with all the pictures that gets taken of it  ;D The minute someone sees it the hand automatically reaches into the pocket to grab hold of the phone  :laugh: I must now just make a plan to get the Lister emblems to finish it off properly and then take it to a show!

Anyway, after much scheming and lost sleep the John Deere is in the shed -- With the Lister safely in the garage  ;)

Playing with the Deere at home: https://youtu.be/nHv8jfOSLdw
Luckily it's running and mostly complete but pleeeeeeeeeenty work to be done.

Cheers!
God bless and let's pray Trump does what he said he would!
M.




41
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« on: October 16, 2016, 08:40:03 PM »
 ??? :o :-\ :P ?? TEMPORARY INSANITY ??  ??? :o :-\ :P

I've ALWAYS had a soft spot for green machines with my first love being the green machine with the yellow wheels. I have this opportunity to buy a complete and running John Deere 40 (original, not restored), but funds to buy it is a bit low at the moment... The only way out would be if I sell the Lister - but I love the machine and I've just worked way too hard to get it to where it is today to just get rid of it... The only way I might consider selling is if I was offered a truck load of cash for it. I'm truly worried that I'll be sorry if I let it go because it's not something that is easily replaceable. I'll probably find an engine if I really tried, but the alternator is a special bit of kit I was blessed with.

Do any of my local comrades have and idea what a genset like this would sell for in South-Africa? I frequently see 6/1 engines being advertised for between R12000 - R15000 on Junkmail, so would it be unrealistic to expect to get double that for a complete working genset?  

Update: 25 October 2016
I spoke to one of the local Lister agents, and they confirmed that the genset should sell relatively easily for R25,000.00 (US$1810 @ R13.81 / US$).
And no. I'm not selling!!! I'll make another plan. The Lister is going nowhere! 

Here is the latest video I made of it: https://youtu.be/hD5t_I9awDk
  

42
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« on: September 26, 2016, 11:53:03 AM »
They say sharing is caring...
This forum and the internet has helped me a lot getting this project to where it is today. I gathered some documentation over time and now I'll share it again to help the next crazy person that ventures down this road.

I'm not sure if any of the information is copy protected, but I found it free to download without any restrictions. Please let me know if I'm stepping on someone's toes and I'll do my best to apologize politely.

Lister manuals, CAV and Bosch injection sysrems and some other useful information:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/k1n449wkfwbcsnn/CS_tech_02.zip
http://www.mediafire.com/download/fb4ye4avdom84an/SOM3.zip
http://www.mediafire.com/download/2xkza4zdyvj844c/CAVInjMan23.zip
http://www.mediafire.com/download/a7dfqj6bn6021f2/CAVInjMan2-14.zip
http://www.mediafire.com/download/999z1869oj5vka1/Bosch_Diesel_Engineering.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/p4ocp0nnyj1am5m/Original_Lister_Instruction_And_Parts_List_Manual.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/q498nf3q3wga8yw/Lister_Diesel_Manual.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/dbb2mbgib4y4etr/Lister_Parts_and_instructions.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/lbper22tvs5glcl/Lister_CS_part_numbers_DEVpdf.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/bgld00f720a8vw9/Lister_CS_Parts.pdf

And again just so all the important links are in one place:
Hoffberg Alternator wiring diagrams
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/u9rzyg6thvase1e,m07ub5gi9vmilgm,g15tvsl33pr32xi/shared

Stamford D8 and D11 alternators
http://www.mediafire.com/download/b3ys2i2mjjbdy1i/Stamford_D8_and_D11_Manual.pdf

Further reading for those rainy days....
49 uses for a farm engine
http://www.mediafire.com/download/6i6amkxh2ieerto/49_Uses_For_A_Farm_Engine.pdf
I think this must be printed and handed out at shows.
The expression on my face when someone stands there staring at a running engine and they ask: "what is this?" "what would you do with this?"



Flywheel explosions:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/6sl36oc2sb9a6wf/Flywheel_Explosions.pdf


43
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« on: September 26, 2016, 10:23:14 AM »
My experience with CS and clone governors tells me you should have that spring copied and sell them because your governor response is flat EXCELLANT!! as compared to typical ;)
I have massaged my 5KW 'roid set governor a bit and as it not stands I lose about 3Hz from no load to 3KW. Not sure how that compares with some of the others here who have spent much time and effort on governing  but as compared to stock its quite an improvement.

I've not checked yet how the governor reacts with other loads - sure hope it's good across the whole range!

The Lister did it's first real job over the weekend. I had my 40th (! ??? !) birthday party on Saturday and I thought it fit early morning to give the place it's annual wash down. I sprayed down the entertainment area (and the wife's car) with the 2.1Kw high pressure cleaner. Place was real dusty and dirty after the long dry winter. The relatively low water consumption of the pressure washer made me feel less guilty using it with the impending water restrictions... time to repent our sins and pray for forgiveness and rain! It's not quite the rainy season yet, but the dam is not looking good since the previous season was also relatively dry. Who is this "el nino" character??  >:(  Apperently his fault that it's so dry ;)   Anyway... the Lister was chugging away beautifully for 3.5 hours while I labored away -- Longest single and loaded run it's ever had in my possession :laugh: and a great back track to listen to while doing a real boring chore.

How clean is the exhaust supposed to be? No-load the exhaust is just about clean, but under load it does puff out some smoke. Is it normal? I was expecting it to be cleaner than what it is. It's done a few hours now in total so maybe time to check injector opening pressure (and timing while I'm at it).

44
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: A very sad day
« on: September 23, 2016, 10:39:16 AM »
Oh my....  :o truly sorry about that!!!

Have you tried CPR? Automated defibrillator? I'm sure with some patience and a couple of DEV (don't read death) parts she can be nursed back to life!

Our thoughts are with you in these trying times. All the best.

45
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« on: September 16, 2016, 10:45:55 AM »
My quick math isn't wasn't it once was but your governning as it stands is running under 1% from no load to something a little over half load. Not trying  to desuade you from playing with it but your expectations may be a bit unrealistic for the CS governor, it ain't electronic, LOL.

Mind you.... to put that in another perspective, 1510 rpm takes the frequency to 50.33 Hz - not bad at all!  ;) 
What I really need to check is if the governor reacts linearly over varying loads. This was just an old spring I had lying around so I instinctively distrusted it!!  :D

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