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Messages - Jim Mc

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31
Lister Based Generators / Re: Has Anyone Run a S-O-M Alternator from a Low-Speed Diesel?
« on: March 06, 2009, 04:51:40 AM »
Quote from: Oilengines on February 27, 2009, 09:13:15 PM
...

Has anyone done this?  Any major problems? The Ruston is 11hp.

...

Yeah, I have a setup like that.  My Ruston's flywheel is about 46" and I'm running a quadruple B-section 'banded' V belt to the 1200 rpm alternator.  The flywheels are crowned, and the belt seems to run just fine on them.  My only advice would be to make the belt as short as  possible to maximize the wrap angle on the Ruston to minimize slipping.  You won't need a quadruple B belt - a double should be good for about 8HP, according to my calculations.

If you decide to put a pulley on the Ruston instead of driving off the flywheel, I'd suggest a much lower profile belt than a B section, so you can use a smaller pulley. 





32
Lister Based Generators / Re: My new engine room!
« on: February 24, 2009, 03:28:14 AM »
I'm sure it's just temporary, but your exhaust pipe is too close to combustibles...

Think of it this way:  The set has been running perfectly for many hundreds of hours.  Enough to have lulled you into thinking all is well.  But in that time, the inside of that propane tank muffler has developed a nice coating of sooty, oily goo.  Combustible, sooty, oily goo.  Then some time while heavily loaded, some soot from within the combustion chamber breaks free and goes out the exhaust valve (I've seen sparks fly out of mine frequently) and somehow lights off the combustible, sooty, oily goo in the propane tank muffler.

Remember all that excess air a Diesel ingests?  Yep, the spent exhaust gas can support combustion.  So you get a mini blast furnace lighting off in the exhaust system.  Mini blast furnace bad.

No, this is not likely to happen.  But it's possible...

Treat a Diesel exhaust system like you'd treat a wood burning appliance chimney.

33
Lister Based Generators / Re: Grid tied inverter driven directly from generator
« on: February 20, 2009, 02:25:03 AM »
Quote from: msdmaule on February 20, 2009, 02:03:55 AM
...No body goes near high voltage wires with out protection....

Uh, OK.  Good luck explaining that to the jury, or the family of the electrocuted utility worker.


Quote
Anyway can any one tell me how people get off the grid with a gen set when the power goes out or does it just pop the beaker then you shut down main power and use your own power.     

EXCELLENT question.  And it indicates how much you need to learn about grid-tie connections.  In a net-metering setup, the power from your generator (or inverter) must flow through a safety interconnect system, which prevents the power from flowing into an otherwise unenergized utility grid.

34
Lister Based Generators / Re: What sized breaker to use on my 6/1 - ST5 combo
« on: February 11, 2009, 02:58:51 AM »
Quote from: LowGear on February 11, 2009, 01:37:14 AM
When the 30 Amp pisses you off because it "pops" too often then put the 40 in.


well said.

Or, start with the 40.  If smokes starts to roll out of the ST head, replace it with a 30   ;D


35
Lister Based Generators / Re: What sized breaker to use on my 6/1 - ST5 combo
« on: February 10, 2009, 04:22:27 AM »
Quote from: Doug on February 09, 2009, 02:37:07 AM
Once you get above about 80% the rating of a biscut breaker your into the range where they start to get a little warm and possibly trip ....

Yeah,  They might trip.  But the problem is that according to the trip curves, shown here:

http://ecatalog.squared.com/pubs/Circuit%20Protection/Miniature%20Circuit%20Breakers/QO-QOB%20Circuit%20Breakers/0730CT9801R108.pdf

a 40A Square D QO breaker isn't guaranteed to trip until you hit 125% of its rating.  And it looks like it could pass 125% indefinitely.  Can the ST head do that???

That's why motors are usually protected with a thermal overload relay.  Generators look a lot like motors from this standpoint.

I'd suggest something like this:

http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.64/.f

Quote
If I use the 40 amp breaker will that be good enough to keep from damaging the gen head

Remember the OP asked about protecting the ST head, not his house wiring...








36
Listeroid Engines / Re: New Crank....Loud Knock!
« on: February 05, 2009, 11:47:27 PM »
Flywheel gib key not tight?

37
Other Slow Speed Diesels / Re: Little Perkins Diesels
« on: February 04, 2009, 03:18:02 AM »
Ted or M61,

Just curious, any markings indicating where these Perkins engines were manufactured?



38
Other Slow Speed Diesels / Re: Little Perkins Diesels
« on: February 03, 2009, 03:17:38 AM »
Nice - looking forward to pics.  What are the plans - direct drive to an ST?



39
Engines / Re: Listeroid hosepower calculations
« on: January 26, 2009, 12:57:08 AM »
Quote from: tlfrantz1 on January 23, 2009, 05:04:16 PM
How can you calculate horsepower for these Listeroids running at a lower rpm? I´m getting a 25/2 and I plan to run it at 700-750 rpm and need to know roughly how much power it´ll make at a slower speed....

Well you did say roughly.  This'll get you close:

(725rpm/1000rpm)*25 = 18hp

Then, as mobile_bob mentions, a little bit of further derating for good measure:

18 hp * 90% =  'bout 16 hp.

If you want more accuracy, I'd start by asking the manufacturer for the rating curves...



40
Generators / Re: Low speed (rpm) gen head?
« on: January 14, 2009, 01:52:15 PM »
Quote from: sailawayrb on January 14, 2009, 07:14:16 AM
...Operating at 1/3 rated power, it might not even require any additional cooling either....

I wouldn't assume that.  Remember,  it's still operating at full current.

41
Other Slow Speed Diesels / Re: Little Perkins Diesels
« on: January 14, 2009, 03:39:07 AM »
OK, that'll be interesting to hear.  BTW,  there's another thread on this little engine here:

http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=4128.0

42
Generators / Re: Low speed (rpm) gen head?
« on: January 14, 2009, 02:54:49 AM »
Quote from: guyd on January 13, 2009, 08:08:31 PM
...My question is - what size head do I need to generate 5 to 10kw at 500rpm - and what voltage and current would I require for the field? I accept that I will need external ventilation / forced air cooling for this. I will assume the original spec for the gen head is 1500rpm (415v / 50Hz)...

You would need a 15-30 kW 1500 rpm machine.  The field would be operated at its normal nameplate-rated current.  Thus, the output voltage from the machine would be about 1/3 of it's rated 1500 rpm value, and so would the power.  And, the frequency would 16.7 Hz.  But that's OK, right? - you'll just run it into a 3-phase full wave rectifier and make DC.  You're right about needing additional cooling air as the internal fan in the machine isn't likely to move enough air across the windings at the lower speed.




43
Listeroid Engines / Re: 20/2 with a blower !
« on: January 11, 2009, 07:59:45 PM »
Nope.  Total displacement for a twin is closer to 3  liters...

44
Listeroid Engines / Re: 20/2 with a blower !
« on: January 11, 2009, 04:18:17 PM »
OK, so assuming a 120 mm bore (about 4.7 inches) and a 140 mm stroke (about 5.5 inches);

A=17.3 sq  in
V=95 cubic inches  per cylinder

cfm = 95 * 800 / 1728 = 43 cfm.

You're right...


Let's see where did I make my mistake...

jens says 1.5 litres displacement.
I multiplied by 400 (intake strokes/minute) to get 600 litres per minute
went to Google and said "convert 600 liters to cubic feet" and got 21.2 cubic feet...

Hmmm..

Oh I see... jens? :-X










45
Other Slow Speed Diesels / Re: Little Perkins Diesels
« on: January 11, 2009, 04:36:31 AM »
According to the manufacturer's spec sheets, both the Yanmar and Perkins are indirect injection. 

The Perkins is $599, and comes with a 12V alternator, but no muffler
The Yanmar is $899, and doesn't have an alternator, but does come with a muffler
I'm pretty sure both have a water pump.
Both come with glow plugs, 12V starter, and 12V fuel solenoid

The spec sheet for the Yanmar puts it dry weight at 185 pounds, .57 liters, and it looks like its good for about 6kW at 1800 rpm
The spec sheet for the Perkins puts it dry weight at only 125 pounds, .507 liters, and it looks like its good for about 5kW at 1800 rpm

The Perkins looks like a better value, but the Yanmar is a bit bigger and seems to be substantially heavier...

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