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Messages - veggie

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Original Lister Cs Engines / Start-o-matic relay sequency
« on: November 28, 2020, 08:32:06 PM »
Curious ....

On a genuine start-o-matic, how does the starting system know when to release the decompression lever to allow starting. ?    ???
I would assume the starting motor does not fight compression immediately.

Listeroid Engines / Re: Low oil temperature
« on: November 26, 2020, 07:03:30 PM »
Yep, the cylinder and head are far away from the crank and very little heat is conducted.
Also, unlike modern engines, the CS style does not circulate oil up to the valve assembly in the cylinder head where it would normally pick up a lot of heat. So, depending on service duration the crankcase oil is also susceptible to condensation and water gain as it does not get hot enough to boil off the moisture.

Changfa Engines / Re: Yanmar chp
« on: November 15, 2020, 12:49:18 AM »

ESP8266 works. It has some quirks ... like shutting off every few hours  :)
Some do it ... some don't.
That can be solved easy enough via adding a small reset routine in the programming.
Best thing to do is mount the controller OFF-SKID away from the engine vibration.
If set up properly they can be fairly reliable.
They can also be programmed to send MQTT "internet of things" data to the web for access by your phone or other PC's

Changfa Engines / Re: Changfa type parts
« on: November 14, 2020, 03:26:42 PM »
Follow up...

After much digging around I concluded that parts for these engines are getting much harder to find.
Changfa owners should gather spares while you can.
One source that I did find helpful was AliExpress (Similar to Ebay).
There were several online stores there which carry Changfa style parts.
They come and go.
I saw gasket sets, pistons, sleeves, and fuel injectors from several sellers.

Listeroid Engines / Re: Simple Electric Starter for Listeroids
« on: November 14, 2020, 03:21:22 PM »
Since my Listeroid 6/1-ST-3 was destined for dual use air compression for my shop's 500 gallon air tank, I used an air cylinder for each, rack closer and for a valve lifter. Small ones are dirt cheap and I plumbed them with 1/4 drip irrigation line and slip in fittings. Small 12V solenoid valves and an N-ch Mosfet transistor let the Picaxe 40X2 do the "heavy lifting". Only the Gast 4AM needs a big high flow solenoid valve.

When you get a moment would it be possible to post a picture or two showing how you mounted the air cylinders to the decomp and fuel rack?
I am currently working on an auto start system for mine. As Hugh pointed out, the starter/generator can easily spin the engine up to starting speed when de-compressed and it can be actuated by a relay, but as yet I have not figured a way to actuate the de-comp and fuel rack.
I know you made a few videos also, if they show your linkage,  perhaps link the videos.

Much appreciated.

Listeroid Engines / Re: Simple Electric Starter for Listeroids
« on: November 14, 2020, 03:15:22 PM »

Nice pictures, I especially like your design for tensioning the belt on the PMG Generator.
A hand crank !   Well done.

Listeroid Engines / Re: Simple Electric Starter for Listeroids
« on: November 13, 2020, 08:28:13 PM »
I use a Gast 4AM with rubber roller, with air cylinder engagement,  auto remote starting.

BruceM, for your remote starting are you using a solenoid to activate the decompression lever? or does your starter power through the first compression stroke under full resistance?

If the engine was sitting against compression (without a run at it) I'm not sure mine could power through. I can spell the belt smoking just thinking about it  ;D

Listeroid Engines / Re: Simple Electric Starter for Listeroids
« on: November 13, 2020, 08:11:23 PM »
Iím all in for a starter generator, I would like to get one.

If your are running the starter/generator off a 23 inch flywheel and with a 2 inch pulley on the starter/generator, thatís well over 7000 RPM. Seems like a lot.

What is the output voltage at that speed?

Is the unit self regulating when charging the battery?

Starter alternators use a standard automotive regulator between the generator and the battery.
They also use a standard automotive relay to engage the heavy load to the starter.
I'm not sure what the max rpm is, but it should be ok at 7000 rpm. On golf carts I think they run in that range.
Hugh Conway's machine has the 23" wheels so he can better comment on the generator speed and output.
On my system the flywheels are 20" and I put a 2.5" serpentine pulley on the starter. The engine runs at 475 rpm so the starter/Gen runs at approx. 3800 rpm. At 3800 it puts out adequate volts for charging but only about 3 amps. Just enough to allow the battery to recover from a start, but not enough to power anything else (except maybe some instrumentation like the Arduino). But that's all I want from it.
Here is my setup as an example...

Listeroid Engines / Re: Simple Electric Starter for Listeroids
« on: November 13, 2020, 03:59:38 AM »

Yep... Just a though experiment.
For those "on the grid" it might make a very simple starter.
If I get a few spare hours to set one up, I will report back  ;)

Listeroid Engines / Re: Simple Electric Starter for Listeroids
« on: November 12, 2020, 08:45:36 PM »

If my brain is on the right track I think a nine inch pulley would hamper the motors ability to develop full torque quick enough to not burn.

Really, what RPM is needed to get the Listeroid to fire, say 250 RPM ? That would give you a 3 inch pulley on the electric motor, which I suspect would be much easier for the electric motor to come up to speed.

That also means the electric motor would be revving at 4823 RPM once the Listeroid got up to speed.

The pulley is sized so that when the engine is running the motor is not revved up beyond it's synchronous speed.
This is to prevent the motor from becoming a generator and attempting to back-feed the grid in case where the operator does not turn off the power switch fast enough once the Lister is up to speed.

Listeroid Engines / Re: Simple Electric Starter for Listeroids
« on: November 12, 2020, 08:41:38 PM »
And do you leave the "starter" belted up during the power run, or use a stick and knock the belt off to reduce load on the engine ?

In my scenario, the motor belt would stay in place and the motor would "free-wheel".
My current setup using the golf cart Starter/Generator works that way.
No extra work to do other than turning the power switch on and off.

In the case of an electric motor, once the power switch is turned off, the motor just free wheels.
No very much energy being lost.

Listeroid Engines / Simple Electric Starter for Listeroids
« on: November 11, 2020, 11:59:54 PM »
Many members have asked how to add electric start to their listeroids.
Suggestions range from air motors to automotive starters to golf cart starter/generators.

I thought of one very simple method that may work on almost any system
(Unless you are off grid ...  but even that may not be an issue if you have enough battery power and a large enough inverter)

All it requires is an 1800 rpm AC electric motor and a switch. Perhaps 3/4 HP or 1HP.
The 1800 rpm electric motor would be mounted on the same base as the engine with a belt running around the flywheel of the Lister.
For the normal 23" flywheels, the electric motor pulley would be 9.2" diameter to give a 2.5:1 belt ratio (more on that below).
The trick is to not overspeed the electric motor once the Lister starts. This prevents issues of back-feeding the grid.

For example...
This example assume a 6/1 CS style engine running at 650 rpm.
A starter system belt ratio of 2.5 to 1 would spin the Lister flywheel up to 720 rpm if the electric motor were left to run up to full speed unloaded.
Long before that the user would drop the decompression lever and start the engine, then switch off the electric motor.
The motor would spin free on it's bearings with no power flowing to it ... or from it.
With the engine running at 650 rpm, the 2.5:1 belt drive would be spinning the motor at 1625 rpm, well below the motor's normal running speed.

I'm not saying this will work for sure because I have not tried it.
It would be interesting to hear comments from others about the possibility using such a simple system.

food for discussion


Changfa Engines / Changfa type parts
« on: November 11, 2020, 04:15:58 PM »

Has anyone found a supplier of the changfa (or JiangDong or LianFa, or.... or...) engine parts?
I need an intake valve for an R175

Can't seem to find any US suppliers. Even Chinese sites are offering less of this stuff.

Listeroid Engines / Re: what is the differences?
« on: October 31, 2020, 03:05:19 PM »

I believe Gary at DES has closed down his business and sold off the inventory.
He was advertising it here many months back.

Listeroid Engines / Re: iron vs Aluminum piston weight
« on: October 31, 2020, 03:03:50 PM »
That's good info.
Thanks for taking the time to weigh and report it.
I would agree that doubling the piston weight must lower the limits on the reciprocating frequency.

One way to compensate for heavier pistons at higher rpm is to increase the weight of the crankshaft counterweights to offset the increased inertia loads at each end of the stroke. Has anyone notice larger counterweights on the higher rpm cast piston engines.?

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