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Messages - SCOTT

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166
Listeroid Engines / Re: Has the EPA doomed the future of our engines?
« on: March 28, 2006, 05:13:14 PM »
Tier 1 emissions regulations for stationary engines were started on 1/1/06. They were then rolled back to April 1, 2006. Anything manufactured after April 1 must meet tier 1 emission levels in order to be imported, and no its not an April fools joke! As I read the regs the feds will make the importer, not the end user, responsible for emissions compliance. Its a big risk considering all the tinkering folks like to do with these engines.

Mike Montieth

Mike can you provide a link that talks about Tier 1 emissions requirement going into effect for stationary engines?  I spoke to an EPA rep (a private contractor actually) and he knew nothing of this new requirement fro stationary engines. 

Thanks
Scott

167
Listeroid Engines / Engine Size Poll
« on: March 22, 2006, 01:05:32 PM »
I thought it would be interesting to find out the most popular engine size.  I have enabled up to 3 votes for people who have more than one engine.

168
Waste Vegetable Oil / Re: Miracle Product
« on: March 09, 2006, 03:04:22 AM »
sunds like a winner....http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=binary%20fission    There is no free ride.

169
Listeroid Engines / Re: Has the EPA doomed the future of our engines?
« on: March 09, 2006, 02:45:12 AM »
To all:  I do not make many posts, unless I am sure what I post can be read as irrefutable,  I do my homework. While researching the specifics of grid interconnection in Ct. I have spoken to CL&P, CT DEP and the EPA.  To all those who are concerned about the EPA restrictions; I have 1 question, who of you have actually read the text?  I have read the text in full several times and to me the answer is clear.  It seems clear that some who would benefit (dealers) are making it seem that all of the sudden the EPA is gunning for “lister types”  are you kidding me?  Take a step back and think about what the role of the EPA is.  Do you really think that they are going to expend resources to stop an 800lb 6 hp diesel engine from clearing a US port?  If there is anyone here who is concerned about importing an engine, let me know I will buy it for you.  I will charge you my cost plus $200.00 Get me a quote from any manufacturer and I will do the leg work.  You do not need a dealer to deal with EPA, you need a dealer to act as a buffer between you and some Indian exporter who will never sell you anything again.  You need their clout.  I have spoken to a few manufacturers in India, and guess what???   You get what you pay for.

The following is the response fromthe EPA to my e-mail, at bottom/

Scott,
 Here are the regulations for stationary engines.

Stationary engine.
                            The engine must be used for a stationary
         purpose and remain at a single
                            site at a building, structure, facility or
         installation for more than 12
                            consecutive months throughout its lifetime,
         or at a seasonal source
                            during its full annual operating period (see
         the definition of  “nonroad
                            engine” in 40 CFR 1068.30, 89.2 or 90.3 ).
         Starting January 1, 2004
                            for spark-ignition engines above 19 kW and
         January 1, 2006 for all
                            compression-ignition engines, the engine
         must be labeled (see 40 CFR
                            1039.20 or 1048.20 ). Penalties: Any person
         who circumvents or
                            attempts to circumvent residence-time
         requirements for stationary
                            engines may be fined up to $32,500 per day
         of violation ( 40 CFR
                            1068.101(b)(3), 89.1106(a)(5), 90.1006(a)(5)
         ). NOTE: Stationary
                            engines may be subject to state or local
regulations.



1068.30

iii) The engine otherwise included in paragraph (1)(iii) of this
definition remains or will remain at a location for more than 12…  consecutive months or a shorter period of time for an engine located at
a seasonal source. A location is any single site at a building,
structure, facility, or installation. Any engine (or engines) that
replaces an engine at a location and that is intended to perform the
same or similar function as the engine replaced will be included in
calculating the consecutive time period. An engine located at a seasonal
source is an engine that remains at a seasonal source during the full
annual operating period of the seasonal source. A seasonal source is a
stationary source that remains in a single location on a permanent basis
(i.e., at least two years) and that operates at that single location…. My guess is that 95 % of the people who read this post will never bother to read this far into the text.  Please prove me wrong…

approximately three months (or more) each year. This paragraph (2)(iii)
does not apply to an engine after the engine is removed from the
location.




§ 1039.20   What requirements from this part apply to excluded
stationary engines?


The provisions of this section apply for engines built on or after
January 1, 2006.


(a) You must add a permanent label or tag to each new engine you produce
or import that is excluded under §1039.1(c) as a stationary engine. To
meet labeling requirements, you must do the following things:


(1) Attach the label or tag in one piece so no one can remove it without
destroying or defacing it.


(2) Secure it to a part of the engine needed for normal operation and
not normally requiring replacement.


(3) Make sure it is durable and readable for the engine's entire life.


(4) Write it in English.


(5) Follow the requirements in §1039.135(g) regarding duplicate labels
if the engine label is obscured in the final installation.


(b) Engine labels or tags required under this section must have the
following information:


(1) Include the heading “EMISSION CONTROL INFORMATION”.


(2) Include your full corporate name and trademark. You may instead
include the full corporate name and trademark of another company you
choose to designate.


(3) State the engine displacement (in liters) and maximum engine power.


(4) State: “THIS ENGINE IS EXCLUDED FROM THE REQUIREMENTS OF 40 CFR PART
1039 AS A “STATIONARY ENGINE.” INSTALLING OR USING THIS ENGINE IN ANY
OTHER APPLICATION MAY BE A VIOLATION OF FEDERAL LAW SUBJECT TO CIVIL
PENALTY.”.

1039.1(c)

(c) The definition of nonroad engine in 40 CFR 1068.30 excludes certain
engines used in stationary applications. These engines are not required
to comply with this part, except for the requirements in §1039.20. In
addition, the prohibitions in 40 CFR 1068.101 restrict the use of
stationary engines for nonstationary purposes.


§ 1048.20   What requirements from this part apply to my excluded
engines?


(a) Engine manufacturers producing an engine excluded under §1048.5(d)
must add a permanent label or tag identifying each engine. This applies
equally to importers. To meet labeling requirements, you must do the
following things:


(1) Attach the label or tag in one piece so no one can remove it without
destroying or defacing it.


(2) Make sure it is durable and readable for the engine's entire life.


(3) Secure it to a part of the engine needed for normal operation and
not normally requiring replacement.


(4) Write it in block letters in English.


(5) Instruct equipment manufacturers that they must place a duplicate
label as described in 40 CFR 1068.105 if they obscure the engine's
label.


(b) Engine labels or tags required under this section must have the
following information:


(1) Include the heading “Emission Control Information”.


(2) Include your full corporate name and trademark.


(3) State the engine displacement (in liters) and maximum brake power.


(4) State: “THIS ENGINE IS EXCLUDED FROM THE REQUIREMENTS OF 40 CFR PART
1048 AS A “STATIONARY ENGINE.” INSTALLING OR USING THIS ENGINE IN ANY
OTHER APPLICATION MAY BE A VIOLATION OF FEDERAL LAW SUBJECT TO CIVIL
PENALTY.”.


1048.5(d)


(d) As defined in §1048.801, stationary engines are not required to
comply with this part (because they are not nonroad engines), except
that you must meet the requirements in §1048.20. In addition, the
prohibitions in 40 CFR 1068.101 restrict the use of stationary engines
for non-stationary purposes.




Penalties:


1068.101(b)(3)

(b) The following prohibitions apply to everyone with respect to the
engines to which this part applies:


(3) Stationary engines. For an engine that is excluded from any
requirements of this chapter because it is a stationary engine, you may
not move it or install it in any mobile equipment, except as allowed by
the provisions of this chapter. You may not circumvent or attempt to
circumvent the residence-time requirements of paragraph (2)(iii) of the
nonroad engine definition in §1068.30. We may assess a civil penalty up
to $31,500 for each day you are in violation.




89.1006(a)(5)

(a) Violations. A violation of the requirements of this subpart is a
violation of the applicable provisions of the Act, including sections
213(d) and 203, and is subject to the penalty provisions thereunder.

 (5) A person who violates §89.1003(a)(2) or (a)(5) is subject to a
civil penalty of not more than $25,000 per day of violation.
.1006(a)(5)
(a) Violations. A violation of the requirements of this subpart is a
violation of the applicable provisions of the Act and is subject to the
penalty provisions thereunder.


(5) A person who violates §90.1003(a)(2) or (a)(6) is subject to a civil
penalty of not more than $25,000 per day of violation.


(See attached file: Regulations for Stationary and Mobile Engines.pdf)

David C. Hurlin ________________________
EPA Imports Line
Compliance & Innovative Strategies Division
Light Duty Vehicle Programs
Imports Group
Managed by EG&G Technical Services
Phone: (734) 214-4100
Fax: (734) 214-4676

2000 Traverwood Drive
Ann Arbor, MI 48105                                                     
                                                                     

Hello

I would like to get the opinion of the EPA regarding the legality of
importing the following diesel engine.  The engine in question is a
"lister type" slow speed diesel consisting of either 1 or 2 cylinders
ranging from 6 -25 hp.
 Link:
http://www.poweranand.com/diesel_engine.htm

These engines weigh anywhere from 750-1500 lbs, they are intended for
stationary use only.  The main use is for electricity production.

As I understand current regulations this type engine should be allowed
under the following circumstance: Stationary use   box # 20 on the
following form:
Link:
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/imports/forms/3520-21.pdf

I have been told that any engine produced after April 1 2006 will not be
allowed to use the above exception.  Is that correct?

Please let me know

Scott

170
Listeroid Engines / Re: Cogen Experience
« on: March 03, 2006, 05:56:45 PM »
WWIProps

This setup sounds a lot like what I envision.  I have a few questions,
1.   your lister is in the garage?  Do you have any problem with exhaust fumes, ( I do assume the exaust is vented outside)
2.   How loud is the engine, can you hear it inside the house?
3.   Do you run this 24/7 ?
4.   Do you have any pictures of your setup?


Question for Solar guy:  with your engine in the basement don’t you worry about exaust fumes leaking into the house?  What is your experience with this, do you use a carbon monoxide detector ?

I  am very interested in the whole concept of cogeneration.  I envision running hot water from the engine coolant and or exhaust through flex PEX tubing in the basement secured to the bottom of my first floor’s sub flooring. This would give me Radiant heat from the Lister.  I was thinking of using the bare baseboard (just the pipe with fins) heaters to build my heat exchanger.  It would be 6 or more sections 12” long attached using standard copper fittings.  This would be enclose in an air tight metal box slightly larger than the space required to enclose the series of pipe with fins.  I think there should be plenty of air space to allow unobstructed exaust flow.  There would also be a lot of surface area because of all the fins.  I do have a concern with the carbon buildup everyone has been warning about, I think if the front panel of this box was removable for cleaning this would work, it would just need some kind of heat tolerant air tight seal.  That is the thought.   Anyone have improvements, comments please post them thx

 My concerns are with noise and fumes.  It would be even better if I could locate my engine in the basement but I am afraid of fumes.  Does anyone here have any input on this? 

171
Lister Based Generators / Re: Lister & Genhead are on the way
« on: February 24, 2006, 01:37:02 PM »
trigzy

I was wondering if the gen head you described would allow me to interconnect with the grid.  I have spoken to my utility and they allow this providing all the required safety equipment is in place.  I would like to run a lister and produce 5kw for my house and sell any excess to the grid.  What is the best way to accomplish this.  I have read that it is possible to hook an engine to an induction motor and run at an rmp that is above the rated rpm for the motor.  This would turn the motor into a generator?  I have posted same question in more detail in another thread:  http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=145.45

Thanks
Scott

172
WWIProps

Was your motor an off the shelf item?  My utility indicated that they were quick to approve anything that was UL approved (or whatever the equivilant utility designation is) or came from a "respected" manufacturer.  Mainly the commercial grid tie inverters that are available.  (DC to AC) I would like to learn more about how you got your setup approved, what they ask, look at etc.  If you still have the contact info for the person you spoke to at the utility that may be helpful. I too am single phase with 100 amp service so it looks like we have a similar initial service.  Did you purchase a motor and hook it up to the lister and run above synch speed while connecting the motor to your service panel?  I will re-read the topic again tomorrow to see if there is anything I missed. 
Thx for the reply 
Scott

173
Lister Based Generators / Selling back to the grid Best way to do it?
« on: February 23, 2006, 11:43:20 PM »
Experts advise sought!



What I would like to do is setup a Listeroid and run it on WVO.  I would like to attach this to a 5kw gen head to produce electricity for my home and have the ability to sell any excess back to my utility.  I have had numerous conversations with the appropriate people at the utility, Connecticut Power and Light.  The regulations permit me to sell back up to 50kwh (50kw per hour) using any means I choose as long as it is a cogeneration set up.  This basically means I need to use the waste heat produced by the engine, i.e. using the heat from the engine or exhaust to heat domestic hot water.  If I use 100% renewable energy I can sell up to 100kwh (100kw per hour) back to the grid. 

As stated above I initially want to generate 5kw using a 10hp engine.  The problem I am having is figuring out how to connect the generator to the grid while meeting the requirements of the utility.  These include but are not limited to; overload circuitry,   anti islanding, and isolation circuitry ( in the event the grid power goes down)

I suppose I could buy a DC alternator hook it up the engine and hook the alternator up to a grid tie inverter, but that is an expensive proposition, on the order of $5k for the inverter alone.

Is there a way to buy a high quality AC Gen head and connect it to the grid using the appropriate panel with all the protection they require?  How would I keep the gen head producing the full 5kw without actually calling for that load?  As I understand it the generator head only outputs electricity when called upon to do so.

I have read that it is possible run an induction motor at a higher than nameplate speed and produce power that way.  To me this sounds like it is a less than optimal way of generating electricity, and I worry that my utility would not approve an “improvised” generator that would hook up to their grid. I have a feeling that something along these lines made my a manufacturer is the way to go, something that is certified to deliver stated output within specified parameters.  If anyone knows where I can get something like this please let me know.

At this point I have a good grasp on the regulatory issues and the mechanical issues are under control.  I am definitely deficient when it comes to working out the details on the electrical side of the whole process.  If there is someone out there that has a working system like what I am trying to design, please let me know how you did this in as much detail as possible.  I would also be willing to pay an electrical contractor to help design the system.  I want to set this up in the right way from the start.

All comments, ideas, corrections and the like are greatly appreciated

Scott



174
Procrutes,
According to the US Department of Energy Biodiesel is considered a biomass fuel and WVO is mentioned.  link:    http://www1.eere.energy.gov/biomass/ 

...Biomass Program develops technology for conversion of biomass (plant-derived material) to valuable fuels, chemicals, materials and power, so as to reduce dependence on foreign oil and foster growth of biorefineries. Biomass is one of our most important energy resources. The largest U.S. renewable energy source every year since 2000, it also provides the only renewable alternative for liquid transportation fuel. Biomass use strengthens rural economies, decreases America's dependence on imported oil, avoids use of MTBE or other highly toxic fuel additives, reduces air and water pollution, and reduces greenhouse gas emissions. Today's biomass uses include ethanol, biodiesel, biomass power, and industrial process energy. 
 If you click the biodiesel link, WVO  resturant fryer oil is specifically mentioned. 

I live in CT and have been researching the possibility of selling power back to the grid.  The Regulations here permit me to produce 50kw using any method of generation, as long as it is set up as cogeneration, using waste heat.  If I use 100% renewable fuel I can produce 100kw.  I am confident I have talked to the right people   the utility they were actually helpful.
I am having a difficult time with the technical aspects of how exactly I can connect and sell excess power.  In another post I will outline exactly what I am trying to accomplish and how I envision this happening.   All advise and feedback is appreciated.


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