I agree with the flywheel rim speed. It sounds a touch fast for safety sake.

They will be nice after a few days running, white n erm.....oily

Hope they go well for you.


Emerald

I believe the 3HP CS has a smaller crank diameter than the 6HP. Converting one will shorten the crank life. Doubt its worth converting unless you really want to pump money into it. They are worth more than the 6HP CS to collectors. The 6HP were very common.

Emerald

I never said ALL Indian bearings are poor. We have to remember these engines were never designed to be sold to western markets, but to countries where cost is more important than good engineering practise. I do agree there are good products as well as bad ones in India, it is no different in our respective home countries.

Many tractor engines are made in India and China, yet the general public buy those major brands without hesitation because it is a known good brand. If they knew the engines were Indian or Chinese I bet some would think twice. Truth be known, if the manufacturer submits a specification, it is costed and followed to the letter. That tells the whole story. In some ways we are unfair to the Indian manufacturers because we expect more than what they are geared up for. We want higher quality and we have to pay for it, however the Indian manufacturers are not geared towards our way of thinking. They simply have never built their Lister clones to satisfy our needs.

Most brands I have seen use cheap bearings, ever hear of Sun or ABC bearings?.......I thought not, try as I may, it is hard to persuade them to use western brand bearings for 'us' and charge the extra money for the bearing cost. A simple task one might think. The buy as-a-kit is still the best option if you want to build your own higher quality engine.

Lovson resell Anand Enterprise engines and parts, mostly. Anand from what I heard back, buys from Field Marshal. It takes even more twists and turns after them. Metex I never liked, Metro is not too bad, GTC the jury is still out on and JKson is next on the list, they look pretty ok so far, see other thread.

Every engine is going to be different, consistancy is not part of the production build spec. Final painting is done after the engine is ran in, mostly in used engine oil, thus ruining what machined surface was on most parts and the ever present casting sand will do its bit over time to ruin what is left.

The TRB's are the easiest to replace, the rod bearings the most difficult. Sourcing quality and dimensionally/material correct shells will be a pain. It may take several samples to get what we really need, and test them over time, no quick fixes there either. It is a real shame no real effort is put into careful assembly of the engines, the external finish I can live with along with leaks etc. We only get one shot at the internals, and those are often damaged before we ever get to run it.

There is a genuine 6-1 in my workshop awaiting its rebuild. A rather short and minor one I should add, not much to change since its 1936 lease of life. Quality costs, just pay it and cry once!


Emerald

If money is tight, you will save my buying direct. But you do have to check with EPA, and use a customs clearance agent. If you can save on shipping, even better. The down side is, any problems and you have to talk direct to India. This is not easy and there is no guarentee any spares you get will be the same spec as what went into your engine. Warranty is best forgotten about to be perfectly honest about it. Getting spares is as good as it gets, and those will take 4 to 5 weeks to reach you....then they go through customs etc.

You should tear down the engine if you buy direct, this is more or less a prerequisite.

If you buy locally, yes you do pay more, but at least you have a native english speaking person to deal with, and your problems should be resolved much faster i.e little down time. Most people do not want the hassle of having try and get the spares themselves and wait for the slow boat from India.

You could also keep an eye on ebay for old genuine Lister engines. Most need repair, but they are a proven design and putting money into one carries definate payback.

Pro's and Con's to each way you look at it. What ever you feel more confortable with, I would let that decide rather than just the money aspect alone.

Rdgs,

Emerald

People,


I am trying to research JKson engines and would like to hear about the hours you got on yours, and what failures you have had. I am especially interested in the finish of machined parts and the bearing life.

To kick start the thread, I can offer this..........

6-1 engine built Dec 2005

Oil pipes feeding main bearings badly bent and distorted
Bolts placed by man with large hammer i.e bent
Casting sand - typical
Timing off
Arrived with old engine oil - ran in with this?
.5mm hop in flywheel - Excessive?
Main bearings, TRB's cheap junk - Will be replaced on first decoke.
No failures, this was a new engine.

Thank you gents,

Emerald

The cheap ones wouldnt even be that cheap (75USD) ex factory. The one pictured here is a good quality unit, it has two brushes per slip ring, and I will guess at its bearings being sealed too. If you get an ST head with that lot, your doing well. Other than checking the slip rings for any high spots, there is nothing else you need do. The Chinese are very capable at making generator heads and it is unfair to put them down without knowing and seeing the heads in person. I have yet to see one with bad windings.

A check on the shaft diameter also tells the story, good heads of 15 and 20kW have 48mm diamter shafts. They should also quote you a continious rating on the head, and not peak like most western resellers do with their junk 3600 RPM gen heads.

I have been to factories which make these heads, if they put a sticker on it of a western manufacturer nobody could tell the difference. I have used them in the past and will use them again. Buying generator heads is no different to buying a Lister clone, you have to be prepared to put in the effort and buy some product. A good quality 5kW head weighs over 200lb. That is the first question I always ask.

The only weak point of the design, even on the 'good' heads, are the cheap dog houses. I remove them and build mine into a seperate control panel that has the engine starting button, kill switch and meter etc. Looks nice and neat then, plus you can add on the goodies such as trip etc.


Emerald

I have been keeping close tabs on the various bearings and bushings used in the Indian Lister clones. Only two manufacturers were able to tell me and one other guy, what bearing life they expected. Big end bearings average 2,000 before wear is apparent, and valve seats average 5,000. None have quoted wear on valve guides. I am somewhat perplexed of their lack of knowledge/willingness to publish the figures, or perhaps they are aware of westerners more indepth knownledge over their previous clients (mainly Africa, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan etc) and dont want us to know.

Yes we do expect more, we are willing to pay more for quaity, and still it does not come.

Somebody brought up the idea of buying in the kit of parts for an engine. This is the route I would choose. It still leaves us with junk bearing shells and equally rubbish TRB's. I could quote brand names of bearings, but I fear you'd all laugh yourselves into a hernia!

In short, by all means import the best 'bits' you can find, finish all machined surfaces as they are meant to be. Round in India, does not have the same meaning to me anymore. Then source quality TRB's here in the west, the shells will be a tougher task. Then we are left with the question of how long the gears are going to last. i was going to buy some Indian gears for a SOM that is in need of some, but I thought better of it and instead gave the broken gear to a CNC shop to make a new one, I know will be as better than the original. It is one less thing to worry about on an old, but otherwise good genuine engine.

Making an Indian clone into a 'good as' oriiginal Lister CS will cost money, its up to you if you want to spend the money. It will get close, but not match it. Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances.

Happy hunting,

Emerald