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211
Listeroid Engines / Re: increasing power, tuned intake and exhaust ?
« on: April 04, 2006, 04:27:35 AM »
Bob G
       Good on ya! We need a few more posts like that when the ranting starts! Maybe if we had more experimenters  out there and less of the subjective opinions, the world would be a better place.
      I like the sound of the poster board tubes as a starting point.If the rack is moving at a constant load, doesn't that equate to a change in fuel efficiency? Sounds good to me ;D. Surely there are  others interested in that?
     Does anyone know of a cheap and cheerfull way of measuring airflow into the engine so that we can establish a baseline? Actual CFM (or your preferred currency) would be nice, but any fairly accurate but relative figure would do. Between us we must have some pretty amazing facilities at our disposal. I'm willing to do a bit of work on this provided it doesn't send me bankrupt ;) Anyone interested?

Cheers,

Brian

212
Listeroid Engines / Re: increasing power, tuned intake and exhaust ?
« on: April 03, 2006, 01:05:52 AM »
     I've been thinking along these lines, not so much from the power increase point of view, but to raise the compression pressures/temperatures for burning waste oil.I currently burn waste transmission oil. On a theoretical note,assuming that no extra fuel is injected, would there be a point at which compressing extra air would waste power?
    I have a 12/2 with the awful inlet manifold set up. The biggest restriction was caused by an undersized gasket between the airfilter elbow and the manifold. I didn't actually measure it but it was around 32mm. The elbow is 40mm dia and the manifold was a very mis-shapen 36mm diameter. After a bit of a touch up on the mill, I now have a 40mm inlet as far as the manifold branch.A bit of port matching also seemed in order.
     Was it worth it? Can't say conclusively but I doubt that the situation is worse than from the factory.
I'm glad someone's offered to do the calcs cos I've been thinking about making a couple of telescoping inlets from exhaust tubing  to find the sweet spot by trial and error.
    Keep up the good work guys!

Cheers

Brian

213
Listeroid Engines / Re: UK Listeroids and spares arrive - photos
« on: March 30, 2006, 01:22:22 AM »
    The "flywheel explosion test" test was actually tried by the Southern Cross foundry in Australia sometime around the 1950's. They apparently took one of their solid flywheels (presumably around the 20 inch range) and geared it up via a layshaft from one of their big diesels. They built a sandbagged enclosure to catch the bits but when it finally let go at 5300RPM the enclosure was destroyed and at least one major chunk travelled 500 yards horizontally.They didn't mention the vertical component!
    I assume that the diesel had its own flywheel fitted at the time but the governor couldn't cope with the sudden load reduction and the motor was destroyed. Motor revs were unfortunately not recorded at the time that the rods vacated the block!
    I'll happily donate a flywheel to anyone wishing to repeat the experiment under controlled conditions (purely in the interests of science of course ;D).The original experiment was conducted on a piece of waste ground near the factory. Can you imagine how GM/Toyota/ NASA would do it today? It would probaby involve a desert somewhere. Maybe one of those extreme science TV shows in the UK would do it for us?

214
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Restoring Original Lister Engines
« on: March 23, 2006, 03:57:47 AM »
    Not all lister flywheels come up like that!
I have a "workhorse" lister L petrol of around 1924 vintage, and sent the flywheels for powder coating.The blasting removed a considerable amount of "Icing" to expose porosity like a sponge cake! The problem was restricted to the spokes but the larger bubbles are still clearly visible after coating. On seeing this I had visions of flywheel explosions (and all that entails!) but I've calmed down a bit now and assume it's OK because :- 1) as far as I understand it,flywheel strength is mainly in the rim, 2) This motor is only rated at 450 RPM, and 3) it's been OK for the last 80 years, so who am I to argue?
    It's weird seeing a motor of that age sitting next to my listeroid and knowing that some of the parts are interchangeable.If heaven has engines though,they probably have Lister on the side!

Cheers

Brian

215
Listeroid Engines / Re: single vs twin
« on: March 20, 2006, 02:40:04 AM »
     My twin certainly does leak! I've searched the forum, but nobody seems to have suggested  any way of reducing the pressure in the crankcase. I'm not (even slightly!) inclined to try a 360 degree crank so what else is there? Vacuum pumps seem a bit extreme but there must be some simple idea that I haven't thought of ( like the brilliant crankcase door oil filter).
     

Cheers

Brian

216
Listeroid Engines / Re: why the large tappet clearances?
« on: March 08, 2006, 12:16:01 AM »
I suppose the reason my clearances appear to be even worse than most is that "cold " is around 30 deg C here!( I mostly use my 12/2 for aircon so I tend to do the routine maintenance on warmish days. )
Halfnuts:Thanks for the 7 thou figure( Great handle BTW!). Could I trouble you for the figure for the amount of cast iron between the cam and rockers?(sorry' my computer's at work so I cant get the distance immediately) Presumably this is greater than 7 thou (between 20 and 100C) so the clearance increases with heat.Don't panic,Hotater I'm not into burnt valves, this is purely academic!
I've just found the discussion of the carbon fibre pushrods (logically ;D) on a thread about air filters. You guys sure love to play with your motors.I was thinking of going the opposite way, pushing a sleeve of soft silicone rubber over the pushrods( I have some soft 40 duro stuff available) to stop them "ringing"after impact. This works on a small boring tool in a lathe (stops chatter) .Strikes me that it might be quicker than making up the carbon fibre variety.I know it will add weight but with the cam only doing 290 rpm (on my motor)I'm not sure that this will be a problem.If it is , the tube could probably be removed in under a minute.

Cheers

Brian

217
Listeroid Engines / Re: why the large tappet clearances?
« on: March 01, 2006, 01:54:58 AM »
Hotater,

I bow to your superior knowledge! I'll bear your experience in mind. Funny, isn't it, with all that iron around, I'd have thought that temperature transients would have been the least of our problems!


Cheers

Brian

218
Listeroid Engines / why the large tappet clearances?
« on: February 28, 2006, 11:44:25 PM »
Could someone please explain the theory behind the large :o tappet clearances on my 12/2? The book says .017 and .032 Which is the same as the original Lister.If I set them both to .005 cold they open up to .013 hot.This implies that they could be set to zero cold as per some other motors (But I'm not game to try it! ;D) Is there any advantage  to the bigger numbers or did Mr Lister just like the sound?

brian

219
General Discussion / Re: Where are you calling from?
« on: February 22, 2006, 11:39:22 PM »
G'day all
          I'm tucked away outside the town of Toowoomba in Queensland,Australia. I recently bought a powerline 12/2 and ST10 from Sam Warne who is about 4 hrs from here.It has many of the usual problems but has got to be the best thing since twist- off caps for beer.It's main function is to provide air con in summer cos although we have heaps of solar gear,we'll never have enough to cool the place when it's 42 degrees C outside!
         I'm a self employed rubber technologist( ???) but i have a reasonable workshop and am addicted to tinkering.I got the vintage engine bug a few years ago and have a rebuilt Lister L petrol motor sitting in the shed looking for a job.It's a bit strange having a motor built in 1924 which has parts interchangeable with the Listeroid made last year! I'm all in favour of making these motors as efficiently as possible and am not scared of a bit of machining.My ideal would be a motor that runs at 100 RPM so I daydream about building one from scratch. Maybe I should start looking round for an old marine engine to cut up....
        While I have views on globalism, "big oil" etc I'll be sticking to the technical/ fun side of this great (full time) hobby.
        Haven't had so much fun since I put the mother in law back on the plane to England!

Cheers

Brian Gilmartin

220
Listeroid Engines / Re: Changeover compression valve
« on: February 22, 2006, 04:04:46 AM »
      My powerline 12/2 has change over valves. I've read that the original listers had ratios of 15:1 (run) and 19:1(start). Later (plugged) listers had 17.5:1 fixed compression.
      Having had some unburned fuel in the exhaust, I checked the actual ratios in my motor and found 14.9:1 (Close enough) and 16.9 :1 (52 thou head clearance) As a result, I'm running with the valves "in" as it's lower than either than the Indian or Lister specs.
      This also has the advantage of not having my wife run for cover when I use the change over valves!
Any idea of  the lowest compression at which a diesel will run? I was surprised when i found the 14.9 figure. Mr Lister was obviously very worried about the bottom end of his motors.

221
Waste Vegetable Oil / Re: Cold starting on crappy wvo
« on: February 20, 2006, 11:57:50 PM »
Greetings from australia!
This is my first post so I'll keep it brief:

1) I measured the compression on my 12/2 (With change over valves)

 starting  :   16.9:1
Running  :   14.9:1

This was with .052 head clearance (as delivered). As a result I've decided to run full time with the c/o valves screwed in.Seems to help with the used ATF mix that I'm running until i can get hold of veggie.

2) Ever heard of the BRONS/HVID system? Also known as the vapourising cup system. Diesel is dribbled under gravity into a small cup in the cylinder head and then ignites from compression alone. Whilst it vapourises when the cup is hot, compression has to light the puddle when cold. I have a couple of these motors.Must be the wierdest (/most touchy) system around.

Keep up the good work, great site!

Brian Gilmartin



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