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Messages - oldnslow

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136
Listeroid Engines / Re: Decision Time
« on: February 10, 2006, 08:50:47 PM »
Quinn, Yes, the  6/1 flywheel distributes its mass further from the center of the crankshaft where it has the increased leverage (moment of inertia?) necessary to counterweight the 6/1 turning slower. You said:

Quote
Since the 10/1 flywheels are smaller in diameter than those of the 6/1 and about the same mass, they will offer less dampening at low speed than will a standard 6/1.  It's also possible that the lower flywheel mass might cause a problem with bearing load at low speeds if the flywheels' kinetic energy is not enough to carry the crankshaft through the compression stroke without slowing excessively.  Remember, none of these was designed to be used for multi-speed operation.

OK if the flywheels are the same mass, but I think the 10/1 stover flywheels might be a bit heavier than the 6/1 spoked. Check this out: The specs (of the brand I will purchase from a reputable dealer) say 6/1 is 800lbs and the 10/1 is 870 lbs. The crate is virtually equal so most of that 70lbs is either on the flywheel or on the crankshaft as counterweights. I think heavier but smaller diameter flywheels and counterweights on the 10/1 crankshaft would equalize it with the lighter larger diameter flywheel on the non-counterweighted 6/1 when they are both turning 650rpm. Perhaps there is someone on the board that can do the math to prove this? I saw somewhere else that you could get a 6/1 with either type of flywheel. Has anyone else ever seen that on an indian site? The 10/1 can certainly be governed to run 800 or 650 rpm, and run smooth, who knows? I would hope we could find a difinitive answer to our discussion. For now, I think multispeed will work if properly done and I will probably try it. If I can ever peal my eyes away from reading all these posts....;D

137
Lister Based Generators / Re: Making Better Fly wheels
« on: February 10, 2006, 07:33:33 PM »
Well, the dealer would probably quote you on the flywheels.  Perhaps back them up as well. How much more weight than a regular flywheel are we talking? Is it a spoked or a stover type? These are some options as far as I can tell (and you probably already thought of this too):
Contact Sensitive Industries directly or
Call Mike Montieth (GM90)
Call George B. see if he can get custom ones.
There are other dealers that may help. Here is an off-the-wall suggestion, because I am a lunatic at heart: Look up "Lindsay's Technical Books" on the web. They have plans to make a "charcoal foundry" that works good. I made one years ago. You could sand-cast your own flywheels and a few extra. Not that technical of a thing to cast, if you study it a little.... ;D

138
Lister Based Generators / Re: Making Better Fly wheels
« on: February 09, 2006, 05:24:00 PM »
The GM 90's are made by http://www.satyajeet.com/de2.htm I remember in one of the threads i read here they were making custom flywheels for a dealer. Perhaps they could probably quote you via email on the "extra heavy" ones you are thinking about making here? just a thought.

139
Other Slow Speed Diesels / Re: Arrow Engine?
« on: February 08, 2006, 04:01:35 PM »
A couple of years ago, Arrow had the diesel version. This engine was originally an "Oilwell-Witte" 750rpm 14HP indirect injection water cooled 1cyl diesel. Arrow bought them out and converted it to run on Gas. They told me the demand for the WD-14 diesel gensets was about 5/year on their 7.5KW unit costing about $15,000. They discontinued the diesel and the "PDF" file brochure. Before it was pulled, I copied the info on the diesel version from their website and dumped it into a word file if anyone wants it. As far as i can tell, that diesel would have been the closest thing to a brand new domestically produced alternative/comparison to the listeroid slow speed diesel based genset many of us have built. On average, a DIY can build a 10KW listeroid genset for about $5000? It puts the shortcomings of the Indian engines into perspective. Anyone know of another brand of slow speed engine being made today that compares? I wonder if there are any Whitte diesels out there that could be refurbished. That would be a nice one to have.

140
Waste Vegetable Oil / Re: Waste Veg Oil
« on: February 07, 2006, 10:21:56 PM »
I have my 25/2 up and running on diesel.. I also went to the journey-to-forever site and got excited about making biodiesel out of WVO, but it adds time, cost, toxic chemicals (NaOH), etc. but the fuel is excellent. On one hand I want to take good care of my engine. On the other hand, these things are made to tolerate (within reason) alot of abuse. The middle ground (for me) is to get fryer oil from restaurants, filter and use it as-is. Nothing new, many are doing it. You guys might have missed this free site, kind of like Journey to Forever but not as sophisticated: http://www.jatropha.de/ it is about using the Jatropha oil in its natural state (without transesterification) in many types of diesels. check out the page where they fire up a Listeroid in India. an interesting window into a group of countries who are trying to use anything available at the lowest cost.
I can grow this plant where i live so it's tempting. another variety here grows like a weed, no pun intended. Anyway the fryer oil is just too easy. it's virtually free, has no hazardous classifications, and it is working for many. These are the good old days friends. sooner or later our EPA friends will get in the way of our free WVO. Until then.

141
Listeroid Engines / Re: Decision Time
« on: January 27, 2006, 10:33:20 PM »
I apologize for the "slow" reply. As many of you know, the 10/1 is identical to the 6/1 but has the "stover" flywheel. Some of the better ones also have counterweights on the crankshaft. This enables the same basic engine to run at higher-than-650rpm safely, depending on the governor and injector pump settings. It allows you to get more, without having to deviate very much from the standard "Lister" design. So, you get the capability of running at 1000 rpm for your rated HP, and you also have the option to slow it down by changing a few minor things. Am I making any sense? I don't imagine having to change speeds that often but having the option appeals to me. Remember that you have to have a "step pulley" or put two of the ribbed pulleys on the gen-head to keep it at 1800rpm while changing engine speeds. Fuel economy should be the same for a 6/1 or the 10/1 at 650rpm because the bore and stroke are the same ( I am theorizing here but does it make sense to you?). All else being equal, the better balanced engine will run smoother at all speeds.   

142
Listeroid Engines / Re: Decision Time
« on: January 26, 2006, 06:08:08 PM »
I would advise you to get 10/1 (still indirect injection) and run it at 650 by changing the governor spring. Ask George about it. Then you have the option to speed it up and change pulleys on your gen head if you need more power in the future or to get you through a tough job. You will be glad you did.

143
Listeroid Engines / Re: Supersizing
« on: January 24, 2006, 05:50:27 PM »
If you depend on this engine as a sole source buy the largest of the standard configuration you can possibly afford. I think running a 1000 rpm engine slower, like 800 or 650 is a great idea. A higher rpm engine running slower would last extremely long running 24-7. Take a look at the Indian specs and you will see many with the same bore and stroke are rated at different hp by changing the rpm.  25/2 at 1000rpm will most likely produce 20hp at 800 and 12hp at 650. I think all you have to do is modify the governer spring to slow it down. It may be possible to make a custom step pulley for the generator head, in my situation, and save fuel when excess KW are not needed. 
Right now, that's not important because this engine runs on garbage....WVO. Hot filtered fryer oil is essentially free for the taking. You can bet our EPA will change this now that they are done screwing with our importation requirements. Get it while you can...

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