Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - BruceM

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 199
1
Generators / Re: replacement brushes
« on: April 20, 2025, 08:06:17 PM »
The typical UPS is looking at the normal frequency drop during the compression stroke of the CS and thinking it should do something.  You might have better luck with an AVR in that the voltage will be better regulated, but the frequency drop will still be there- the AVR can't do anything about that. 

Increasing the threshold for voltage and frequency variation of the UPS is just what you need, as you noted, but it's a stinker as a DIY project due to lack of documentation and access change embedded software.  An alternative would be your own homebrew UPS using a cheapo 12V inverter which you could control with an Arduino or analog circuitry monitoring voltage and frequency. In the data center world they got rid of the inverters and went to straight higher DC voltage straight from the battery system, since they found that their 230VAC computer switching supplies could handle 350VDC just as well with no conversion losses.  I use that approach to run my off grid computer gear on my main 125V battery bank sans inverter. MOST switching supplies are happy with my 125VDC main battery bank supply. (Some switchers have startup circuits which insist on AC input. Fewer of those these days.) I only run my 125V input inverter when I need AC for the washing machine, well pump, etc. But without that source of higher voltage DC, a cheap inverter from a 12V is likely the simplest solution.  If you need more of a time buffer to have the inverter start up, then creating rectified HV DC from the AC for the computer gear, with sufficient capacitors to allow for inverter start up might be a good solution. In this case, the computer supplies will be operating on about 180VDC all the time.  The inverter could be replaced with a DC to DC boost converter.  Most computer switchers allow for 100VAC operation these days. Looking at the bulk DC voltage for the computer, and turning on the inverter or boost converter if it starts to get low is viable solution. 

Simpler is often better as you noted.   I mention this stuff just because it is an area I have dabbled in and use myself for my own off grid power system.

Best Wishes,
BruceM


2
Generators / Re: replacement brushes
« on: April 20, 2025, 04:58:32 PM »
That performance is about what you should expect from a good stock ST setup. The stock harmonic is good for high capacitance, low PF loads like a low PF charger or cheap welder. An AVR will not work as well for those loads since the cheap ones do not do true RMS voltage regulation.  If you want tighter regulation for normal loads, you will need to connect the AVR to the mains, as your harmonic winding doesn't have extra capacity for the fully loaded situation.  The AVR can only limit the excitation source. 

ST heads which have excessive voltage (unlike yours)  require adding power resistor to reduce harmonic excitation, and can use the harmonic as excitation for an AVR.  They will do well with the AVR on the harmonic (with no resistor) since even under full load the harmonic will have sufficient power.  Some stators (like mine) have harmonic winding configurations that have output waveform distortion called the "harmonic hump" when the harmonic is used.  Some have found adding capacitance to the rectified harmonic output reduces this acceptably.  That may also boost your voltage somewhat (not varied by load). Just remember that the harmonic peak voltage is quite high- (it is spikes, not a sine) and I have measured my ST-3 harmonic voltage peak for starting a well pump load at 400VDC despite a faceplate harmonic voltage of something like 24VDC.  On some heads, capacitors did not change the harmonic hump, but using and AVR off the mains works well.  (Motor run capacitors are the safest to use for this.)

Be careful to check for aluminum rotor windings.  They do not hold up well, and it can be hard to spot with the red electrical varnish.  My neighbor got one of these from CGG, and one rotor winding failed open in less than a year. The bearings need to be replaced with high quality ones like SK.  The "better" Chinesium bearings we got from CGG were noisy under load.

I added info on the common variations of the ST single phase heads in hopes it may help some others new to these simple, cheap workhorses.  I have gotten great service out of mine with some effort but I don't recommend them for newbies without some technical skills as they vary greatly and some are not  problem free.  Stamford clones were recommended here and have been reported  to be trouble free with good waveform, but are expensive relative to the ST heads.

Best Wishes,
BruceM






3
Generators / Re: replacement brushes
« on: April 20, 2025, 12:38:58 AM »
Your rpm drop under full load is reasonable, but you didn't list the voltage at no load and full load.  You also didn't mention whether your ST head required a resistor to down regulate the harmonic winding output or whether you are running full open.

There is huge variability in the ST heads imported by CG from different vendors over the years, and sadly not better over time. Some will not operate adequately without an AVR, and some will need the AVR to operate off the mains, not the harmonic if the latter is too weak to provide full voltage under load.  At one time I had three ST-3 apart on my bench and no two had the same rotor or stators.

Many of the better units will regulate acceptably well off the stock harmonic system.  Some not.  I run my ST-3 on an AVR, as does a neighbor.  My homebuilt AVR is run off the mains to reduce the classic single phase ST "harmonic hump" distortion.  which depends on your luck of draw for rotor and stator.  My neighbor's setup uses one of the cheap brushed AVRs from China, and you should get a spare.  They seem to fail every 3-4 years, though this setup does see a LOT of engine run time.

4
Listeroid Engines / Re: Lister(oid) Concrete Base
« on: March 27, 2025, 02:45:27 PM »
If you add counterbalance until you just barely start to see fore and aft movement, that will be the ideal weight if you are looking for minimum vertical force.

I had built a temporary wood frame for my Listeroid, which I mounted on 1" thick rubber pads (grooved and glued in place with gorilla glue) on a thickened shed slab- 10 inches thick under the engine area.  Without balancing, despite the rubber pads, it audibly shook the whole steel sided and roofed building and you could feel it through the ground 10 away from the building.  I then used the wheel marking method, which took an entire afternoon of fiddling.  Then I could sit a cup of water on the valve cover and just see some rippling.  On my next engine project for a neighbor I used 38ACs method of matching the flywheels and getting the counterweight centered on the keyway first before adding counterweights.  This made it SO much faster and easier. Maybe 20 minutes to that perfect balance where fore/aft movement is just barely starting and a cup of water is used for the final balancing. The beauty of his method is you just add/subtract counter weight equally on both wheels, and then observe the balance.  It is only a question of too much or too little and you will be using the cup of water pretty quickly.

The only reason for a big slab of concrete is if you'd like to raise the engine for ease of service.  Or you have failed to understand 38ac's simple method.  It's brilliant.

For your new post- I'm not a fan of low voltage systems for just the reasons you state.  But there, balance will be very important.  Some sort of soft mount may help, the ulitmate being sailawayrb's properly engineered system. You will still have sound issues with valve clatter, and will need an earth muffler of some sort.  I like the leachfield exhaust method in a dry location as it also gets rid of exhaust smell.

5
Listeroid Engines / Re: Lister(oid) Concrete Base
« on: March 27, 2025, 03:26:27 AM »
I concur. Using 38AC's balancing method is fast and effective. So much less work and expense than designing a base for a jackhammer.


6
Other Slow Speed Diesels / Re: More Bamfords
« on: January 31, 2025, 06:00:15 AM »

I've always been a big fan of your Bamfords with their enclosed pushrods and sturdy design. One of the all time great slow speed diesels.  It's very impressive that you've  brought so many back to life, and i have no doubt you are greatly appreciated by your clients!
Best Wishes,
Bruce

7
Everything else / Re: lifePO
« on: December 24, 2024, 11:54:21 PM »
I agree with Keith71 that the diysolarforum.com is a good place to learn. 

All the LFP capable balancers will work, and obviously, even high voltage series/parallel configurations work fine with a suitable passive balancer, and that's what most EV's use. 

Many people have managed to do manual top balancing and monitoring and  re-balancing of new matched cells, but I feel that is asking for trouble. I like idiot proofing for myself.  Even high voltage balancers are available on Aliexpress for around $300 and up.  Daly makes one as well, though you can't find it in the US. 

The commercial digital based balancers which support LFP will only balance when charging, and at the specified (higher) voltage.  For higher voltages they typically use opto isolated SPI bus wuth a master controller board and multiple 16 cell BMS IC controllers. The master then can read and compare all the cells, and decide when and which cells to load, while monitoring temperature of each BMS IC.  It's the simplest, lowest cost method.

I prefer higher current (3A) passive cell balancers which only start when the "full" voltage is hit, and the peak balance current (analog opto isolated) is used to throttle back the charge current. This can be done entirely analog, which is my preference.  I use this method for my existing battery bank and I have spec'd out the design and parts for a 38 cell LFP version. 

The big question is whether LFP cells will be worth all that custom build effort for me, since they may be buggy whips in 10 years.

8
Listeroid Engines / Re: AC Motor as starter motor for a listerl(oid) ?
« on: November 14, 2024, 07:04:34 PM »
Fantastic post mortem results Veggie ! Glad to see your 12V starter motor/generator vindicated, I have always thought it was a great setup you had. 

Next time you'll know to do an anti-corrosion plus wear and lubrication service on the motor/generator when you replace the battery.




9
Listeroid Engines / Re: AC Motor as starter motor for a listerl(oid) ?
« on: November 11, 2024, 07:33:56 PM »
Veggie, I hope your starter/generator autopsy/repair of the starter will prove fruitful. Nine years is pretty good.  I hope it's just a bum wire connection and not a cooked open winding.

I'm still on my original rubber roller from McMasters. No appreciable wear, and thousands of starts and 15 years or so.  I appreciate the mechanical simplicity of the rubber wheel, friction drive.  I've seen some really nicely built starters shown here with a rubber roller on an automotive starter motor.

10
Everything else / Re: lifePO
« on: November 11, 2024, 07:20:47 PM »
Current limiting with a fixed voltage charge is well supported by most commercial PV charge regulators and is not usually not a problem even for older charge regulators.

LFP has to be regularly full charged if you have any hope of having an reliable state of charge indication and to do non-manual balancing.  The cell charge-voltage curve is flat with some variations until you reach around 90% of full charge.  Likewise, LFP cells should only be balanced by your BMS when approaching full voltage (voltage is rising appreciably), very unlike the lithium ion cells.  You can decide how full is full  if you like, but you must pick a value in the nearly full range where the voltage is rising substantially.  Most have so far found that even keeping the cells at full charge is not causing significant degradation over time.  See Will Proust's diysolarform.com to get some decent info. He does his technical homework well before presenting info.

I am not using LFP yet but just 5 months ago was working on an all linear, high voltage BMS design for 38 LFP cells in series with another EE friend.  In my research I found that the differences between LFP and Lithium Ion cells was causing trouble for many early LFP adopters with BMS hardware that was not well suited for them.  Balancing LFP by any means (active or passive, high or low current) at other than near full was always a mess.  The voltage-charge curve is just too flat, and instead of balancing, it was actually unbalancing.

Apparently large balancing current is not needed despite the more limited balancing time window, and 100ma to 1 amp seems to be working fine. The cells are just that good at least when young (under a decade old). 


Best Wishes,
BruceM

11
Listeroid Engines / Re: AC Motor as starter motor for a listerl(oid) ?
« on: November 10, 2024, 11:56:05 PM »
I agree on the air usage issue Veggie.  I use the Gast 4AM as with rubber roller as starter.  It's been very durable. Air motors don't mind being stalled with huge starting loads. It does use lots of air once it does spin up, which isn't a problem for my shop's 500 gallon receiver tank. On a 30 gallon tank I can get 2-3 starts.  My Lister's primary function is running an air compressor for my shop, and now inverter backup AC power.

I always appreciated your use of the starter/generator. How long did your starter/generator last?  How did it fail?

I killed one (surplus) GAST 4AM  motor myself- water in the compressed air system corroded it badly.  I have since added a big water separator unit and a drain on the line going up the hill in a trench which used to catch condensate and then gravity feed the water back to the engine shed air starter system, overfilling and overwhelming my former standard sized water separator.  Sometimes you can learn a lot from a failure. 



12
Listeroid Engines / Re: AC Motor as starter motor for a listerl(oid) ?
« on: November 10, 2024, 03:04:28 AM »
Hi Veggie,

That poor Listeroid in the video is so badly out of balance it's pounding itself to pieces.
A serious cruelty, it should be a crime.

An induction motor is a bad match for a starter, low starting torque and huge locked rotor current.
If it's free  and you really want to see it for yourself, just disconnect power manually when it begins to start to stop it from becoming a synchronous generator. You can do that by rpm sensor (I like the cherry hall effect gear tooth sensor for counting my spokes) and an Arduino Nano to do the disconnect automatically.  Or a thousand other ways...

Best Wishes,
Bruce

13
Petteroids / Re: PETTER - PAZ1 - New project
« on: June 14, 2024, 01:02:20 AM »
What a beautiful photo of your recently restored engines! 
I look forward to seeing your progress on the 50cc motorcycle as well.
Best Wishes,
Bruce

14
Listeroid Engines / Re: Hot Water Circulator Max Temp Rating.
« on: June 02, 2024, 06:08:57 PM »
 Powder Monkey has an ideal, keep it simple application for thermosiphon tank cooling in that he is running 8 hrs a day in a no-freeze location.  No antifreeze needed and the long time for getting up to temperature and potential increased carbon build up are not a problem for his application.

My application was for short runs, typically 30 minutes. (Pump water while running washing machine, or pump air for the shop, or a 30 minute bulk charge of my battery bank.)   I also have the issue of sub zero temperatures in winter which also make the tank method a poor choice ($) as ajaffa1 wisely notes.  I opted for the thermostat and a (exhaust induced draft- no fan required) radiator with thermosiphon flow because of my  anticipated short run times and a design goal to not require generator operation when operating the air compressor compressor only.  (I could not find affordable cast iron radiators here in AZ or I would have used one with a thermostat.)  I have further reduced de-coking labor by adding a water/methanol feed system.  I keep waiting for the cold idle knocking sound which used to signal time (at 200-300 hrs) for de-coking but now it never happens. 

The perfect cooling system for the CS is application and location specific.  (And the desires and design goals of the builder/designer.)  XYZer created a lovely portable CS design for thermosiphon and fanless oversized radiator with convection only air flow. Standard automotive style cooling setups with pump and fan can be more compact and lighter weight while also being quite practical and economical.  Cujet's portable twin CS design is one outstanding example.

Best Wishes,
Bruce M





15
Listeroid Engines / Re: Vibration Sensor prevents Flywheel launch
« on: May 19, 2024, 12:46:02 AM »
A floor mounted, EMT frame with wire mesh cage might be a good solution for my 6/1 setup.
Thanks for the good idea, Cujet.  I hope your move goes smoothly! 


Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 199