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Messages - somian

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1
I believe dieselspanner is correct, due to the heads on twins being "handed", both valve guide holes in the heads are threaded, but one thread is normally not used

2
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Startomatic Generator Rewind
« on: January 27, 2014, 03:58:40 PM »
Even if the suppressor looks good I would get rid of it before it dies in a great cloud of evil smoke and possibly damages somat else doing so. It serves no useful purpose

Ian

3
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: 8-1 Liner, is it chromed?
« on: January 27, 2014, 03:55:01 PM »
My 1959 8/1 has aluminium piston, and a chromed bore. It is fitted to a SOM set, if that makes any difference, which I doubt.

Ian

4
Lister Based Generators / Re: Startomatic operation mystery
« on: January 17, 2014, 10:25:54 PM »
My 8/1 set certainly had no delay when I received it. I have made a start sequencer, primarily because I have fitted a glow plug, but whilst I was at it I put in a delay for the pump/lifter solenoid. Now, after operating a load, it waits for the plug to warm, pulls in the start contactor, and later energises the solenoid. Works a treat!

Ian

5
Original Lister Cs Engines / CS governor improvement
« on: October 16, 2013, 09:27:27 PM »
Just tried my CS8/1 after making a simpler alternative to the Utterpower modification. All I have done is make a wire link so as to movethe spring away from the fixed end, such that the adjustment rod can be wound almost right into the crank. It cetainly seems to work better, and for no more cost than a few inches of galvanised wire. It probably doesn't look marvellous, but with my SOM set mounted the way it is it can hardly be seen, even if you know to look for it.

Seems to have been half an hour well spent

Ian

6
Generators / Re: ST3 low output voltage
« on: June 26, 2013, 10:19:34 PM »
I have just done a basic test of the unit as I said I would; it takes 62V to get 2KW out of it, at which point the rotor is drawing 3A. The curious thing is that on the plate on the side it states the excitation to be 42V at 2A; it is almost as though the "gain" of the unit is lower than it ought to be. This was cold, with unity PF load

Simply supplying the rotor from the variac the voltage varies considerably with load as one would expect, but when I put the regulator in circuit it varied by less than 10V between no load at 2KW, so not brilliant, but usable

7
Generators / Re: ST3 low output voltage
« on: June 26, 2013, 01:09:37 PM »
Tested the regulator from inside the ST3 yesterday. "mains" input provided by variac and isolating transformer, the triac connections were between the output of a 24V transformer and a 12R load. Monitored the resistor with a 'scope. The regulator contains a relay, whose NC contacts seem to be across the triac. With 24V on, but no mains, the resistors get the full 24V. Wind the "mains" up with the variac and the relay pulls in at 96V; the resistors still get all the 24V, but with a slight glitch at zero crossing. Keep winding the variac up and eventually it starts triggering the triac later, thus power delivered to resistors decreases. Conduction angle decreases from 180 degrees to about 100 to 110 degrees over a 3 volt change in the "mains" input, after which it goes to 0 degrees. There is an adjustment pot which adjusts the control point from 90V to 140V. The triac is a Sanken M1641.

I therefore conclude that the regulator is working fine, but due to its limited working conduction angle range the supply to it needs to be just a little more than required to give full output from the machine. Therefore my next task is to run the machine with the rotor supplied from the variac to find out what this voltage is, and what the current is at that point. I will then need a acquire a transformer, 240V input, and with an output of the voltage found.

I will also try adding capacitors after the rectifier, but I suspect that method will not work with the regulator, but might without it.

I am curious to know how well the regulator works on the spiky waveform from the harmonic winding. Obviously the fundamental problem with my machine is the output of the harmonic winding is too low.

8
Generators / Re: ST3 low output voltage
« on: June 20, 2013, 09:43:35 PM »
The ST3 is being powered by a series 1 Petter AV1, 5HP at 1500rpm. The flywheel is much smaller than than those on a CS, but then it going rather quicker. It is direct drive. I will try a selection of capacitors, but it won't be until after the weekend. I am not sure what suitable voltage electrolytics I have in stock, but I certainly have a load of PF correction caps of 250VAC rating, around 6 to 10uF if I remember correctly

9
Generators / Re: ST3 low output voltage
« on: June 19, 2013, 09:54:14 PM »
I will certainly try the capacitors after the bridge. I can certainly see how that might improve the quality of the output waveform. Does smoothing the output of the bridge with capacitors affect the transient response, the voltage dip when switching a load on or the voltage peak when switching a load off, for example?

10
Generators / Re: ST3 low output voltage
« on: June 19, 2013, 01:30:30 PM »
I probed around the rectifier with the 'scope, and all the input pulses were at the output, rectified correctly, and the rectifier tests out correctly with a meter, so I have no reason to think the rectifier is faulty (yet). Next time I run it I will power the rotor from the mains via a variac and isolating transformer and see what happens

11
Generators / Re: ST3 low output voltage
« on: June 18, 2013, 12:14:42 PM »
This unit is not like the diagram further up in several respects. It seems to have no connections for 60Hz (on its plate it only states 50Hz), the connections are therefore very different, and it came with the AVR as I described previously. It is still a dual voltage unit, however.

Presumably this manufacturer (I understand that there are several manufacturers of ST alternators, this one is "Saint") has tried to improve the design, but made it more market specific than the earlier versions. However, the improvements are not better. Where have I heard that before??

12
Generators / Re: ST3 low output voltage
« on: June 17, 2013, 10:35:37 PM »
Done a bit more investigation. First thing is that the output of the harmonic winding does increase as the load increases. It is nothing like a sine wave. It is four brief spikes, two positive, then two negative, the whole pattern repeating at 50Hz. The total duration of the spikes is much less than 50% of the 20ms period. I tried feeding the mains input of the regulator via a small autotransformer, to see if it would increase the output voltage (by fooling it that the output voltage is less than it really was), but that had no effect. I then disconnected the regulator completely, and put a series of large 2R2 resistors where the triac of the regulator is normally. That certainly reduced the output voltage, so I then shorted across the resistors, increasing the number shorted out one at a time, until the whole lot were shorted out. It was then behaving much as it did with the regulator. I therefore conclude that for some reason the output of the harmonic winding is insufficient to excite it to full output. It was giving about 220V at 50Hz into a 1KW fan heater, and about 205V into a 2KW fan heater at about 48 to 49 Hz. Pushing the pump rack to increase the the speed to 50Hz resulted in a slight increase in voltage.

I therefore conclude that the only way I will get 240V out of this machine is to feed the rotor from the main output, via a suitable regulator. A possible short term experiment might be to make up a DC power supply of may be 10V at 3A or so and put it is series with the output of the rectifier from the harmonic winding, just to see if it increase the output voltage

13
Generators / Re: ST3 low output voltage
« on: June 09, 2013, 09:17:46 PM »
I have that diagram. The AVR on mine is connected in series at Z1 or Z2, and it monitors one of the main windings. I am going to try connected a variable resistor where the regulator is on mine, and I will report back, but it will be several days before I am likely to get time to do it. I do not believe mine has the option of 60Hz operation, but that doesn't matter for me.

14
Generators / ST3 low output voltage
« on: June 07, 2013, 10:25:12 PM »
I have got an ST3, which contains an electronic regulator, but even set on maximum produces about 225V no load at somewhat over 50Hz, 220V with a 1KW load at 50Hz, and just over 200V with a 2KW load, though frequency is a bit low at this output. The auxiliary winding is producing 42V at 1KW output, but the rotor is only getting about 30V. The rectifier checks out OK.

I seem to remember that earlier versions of these machines didn't have the regulator, but fed the rotor from the auxiliary winding via a resistor and a rectifier. Did this give good regulation, and if so how did it work; is it worth me trying this setup?

Any ideas, please folks?

15
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: SOM restoration project
« on: December 14, 2012, 10:23:23 AM »
You state that two are SOM units, but none of them have the big solenoid on the valve lifter, so how was the starting and stopping controlled on these SOM units?

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