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Messages - rgroves

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Bio-diesel Fuel / Re: Oil Seed Press HP Requirements
« on: May 14, 2007, 06:55:33 PM »
 Your 6/1 would have some problems with a 2 ton press, but if you turned it up to 10 hp / 1000 rpm you'd be OK.   8 hp is a good minimum working figure for a 2 tonner, but more is always better.

I have run one of my 2 ton presses with a Changfa 195 (rated conservatively at 12 hp @ 2000 rpm) The press made good oil with the Changfa turning at about 1500 rpm.   


Everything else / Re: Hydronic (underfloor hot water) Heating
« on: February 10, 2007, 04:42:55 AM »
Many older homes have a small hatch cut into a closet ceiling or an opening on the end of the house acessed from a ladder. Find a way,it will be worth it.

One '60s house had copper pipe in the poured floor. It worked fine except the insulation was nor up to snuff and the floors were too warm. Today the cost of copper will kill the job.

There are comanies that do spray foam insulation. This works well because the small openings that allow air to infiltrate into the house are sealed.


My 30's farm house was uninsulated until last September.   I had icynene foam sprayed in the attic, walls, and inside the sill.  No more drafts,  and the comfort is radically better.  The house is TOTALLY different and now I'm ready to go for hydronic.  I have a guy coming in to help me design the system, which will be installed with Pex snapped into aluminum fins under the floor joists. I highly recommend the spray foam route.

General Discussion / Re: trigeneration, anyone doing or planning one
« on: September 07, 2006, 04:53:54 PM »
I've definitely been thinking about it.  The quick&dirty method would involve a car compressor running at some low speed (for long life, and because car a/c systems are huge by house standards), and cycling it with the stock clutch.  Rather than have pressurized hoses snaking around the house with refrigerant in them, I thought I'd use an evaporator coil in an antifreeze tank near the compressor and engine, and then pump chilled water around.  The compressor cutoff and the circ pump cutoff would be controlled by the house thermostat.  An extra-fancy version would include several water tanks for thermal storage so the listeroid could be shut down during the night and still have some cooling capacity available.

I'm in PA, so we only need a few cooling degree days, but we have a surprising amount of humidity from lake effect here.  This summer, I ran three window units (2x 5K, 1x12K) to keep the house bearable during July.  One listeroid that also provided hot water would be just fine instead.

That's all speculation, though.  For the time being, I want to see if I can recover all the heat I can from the engine, which means an exhaust heat exchanger as well as a coil in the cooling water tank.

I used to have a dairy bulk tank, 300 gallons I think it was.  It had a fairly small compressor and kept the liquid inside near freezing. Seemed to be well insulated too.  If you could run that compressor with a small engine, you'd have a significant amount of cold liquid to circulate into the house.  I'd use Pexflex for the buried run, and could maybe even use the same tank for captured engine heat during the winter.

HMM. Those tanks aren't hard to find and they sell used for about $1 per gallon.


General Discussion / Re: trigeneration, anyone doing or planning one
« on: September 07, 2006, 04:47:37 PM »
I have been corresponding with an Amish guy from Iowa. He's buying an oilseed press from me, and he mentioned that he and his neighbors share an engine powered walk-in freezer in town. It's run by a 5 hp Honda gas engine now, and they're interested in Listeroid power for lower fuel economy and the ability to make their own diesel.

I haven't picked his brain much, but I can see how the compressor would easy as can be to run with an engine. But a walkin also has blowers inside, and unless they're cheating a little and making electricity with the engine I can't see how they're doing it.  (Unless they are using compressed air motors to drive the blowers)

Aside from renewing my desire to have another walkin, this really got me thinking about A/C.  It's the difference between "Kansas sucks in summer" and "Kansas sucks and I'm leaving"  

I'm intrigued - have a Mini-Petter that would drive a compressor all day on small amounts of fuel.  Or I could piggyback this load onto my other engine/generator equipment.  
That would really be trigen.  Anybody know how long a run of compressor lines I could get away with?


General Discussion / They're not teaching kids to do anything these days
« on: September 06, 2006, 09:00:51 PM »
All, I noticed this discussion in another thread - and thought I'd brighten your day.

This morning I had email from a guy in rural Oklahoma, junior year in High School.  He wants to learn to crush oil and make biodiesel for his FFA project this year.  His main motivation is to help his Dad and Granddad cut their farming costs, but he'd also like to see if there's a business to be had doing custom oilseed crushing for his farmer neighbors.

Here's what really got me.  He wants to make a weekend run up here to see some crushing equipment - he, his Dad, Granddad, and HIS AG TEACHER!
And he wants to do that after his Saturday morning viewing of game films from his Friday night football game.

Maybe in some places kids aren't being taught any real skills.  But the kids with the blue jackets sure are getting a shot.
You all think I'll give this kid the best smokin deal on an oilseed press you're ever seen?
Oh yeah.

General Discussion / Re: Diesel Truck Recommendations???
« on: September 01, 2006, 09:38:00 PM »

Multi-fuel turbo diesel 6x6, very low mileage. Several to choose from. Good snow plow and logging trucks! Please contact Tom at ext. 232 for details! Prices range from $5500-$7000
  Ex-military deuce and a half.  It looks like they're showing up as the reservists trucks are replaced by newer trucks.  Low mileage but a lot of rust from others I've seen
  Should be able to find similar on other surplus sites.

From the same catalog, take a look at http://www.galleria-e.com/cgi-bin/Colemans.storefront/44f8522b01c9f1fe273f428d328206a3/Product/View/pickup

I have an 86 2WD Chevy with that 6.2.  Tough as hell, hauls a big load (5200 lbs empty, 8500 GVWR, so it really is able to take 3000 lbs of payload)   The only thing I don't like about mine is that it's not 4wd.  Any GM dealer will have parts and service for these old beasties.  I paid $2000 for mine, and I've used and abused if for years now.

FYI  GM made a sorry-ass attempt at diesel pickups with the 5.7, converted gas engine that took a dump at 50K miles. They were pre 1986, and I doubt you'll ever find one for sale. But just beware, they sucked in several ways.


General Discussion / Re: Old Style Lister
« on: August 31, 2006, 02:44:13 AM »
Dear Willem

Ask Krishna, I hear he has a soft spot for your sort.

Love as always


Wednesday, August 30, 2006

Sponsors Needed!

We are in need of additional equipment like; CNC Machines, Lathes, Milles, Welders and a Motor home for traveling and showing our products and Cash. If you our someone you know would like to help us by providing money or equipment, Please let us know. Thousands of people will be without power again this year and you can help us help them with our complete generator system that will run on Bio-diesel, oil our waste vegetable oils. Thank you, Willem

Lets all dig deep and toss Willy a few bucks, and some machine tools and an RV so he can tour around and spread the word. I was just thinking, he going to need a driver since the pills for his neck knock him out most mornings and maybe some one with time is willing to answere all his phone call for him while he sleeps off the meds.


Everything else / Re: backup power for a sewage pump?
« on: August 30, 2006, 09:15:58 PM »
This sounds like a job for a bilge pump. High flow, low head, short cycles.  Likely the water will be fairly clean (no big chunks)
Any marine store will have them in a bunch of sizes, and they're likely to have a float switch to turn them on and off. Bilge pumps work up to about 10 feet of head.
Then all you need is a little bank of 12 VDC and you're ready. 
No need for an inverter.


Listeroid Engines / Re: KIT ENGINE, First impressions--
« on: August 25, 2006, 08:26:55 PM »
Which means that the flywheels from an English Lister should turn an Indian hopper into a more civilized beast.  We could call it the "Lee-Enfield variant"   ;D
Now to find a good set of British flywheels. 


It sure gets hard to keep PERSPECTIVE, don't it?

The English Listers WERE balanced, as well as the design calls for,  (I STILL would like to know HOW),   then they were bolted to a solid mount to last into the ages.

Now, SOMEWHERE in the innards or spinning outtards of a Indian engine is a wrong part that makes it shiver in MIGHTY convulsions at certain RPMs.  Obviously *something* is not balanced.
 What PART or relation to parts is out of balance and how do you find it?

THAT's  one question.

I'm not into bolting weights on parts that aren't wrong.   But IF they're wrong, I'd like to know it.

Since the inside parts are pretty much 'set' in weight and relationships to each other they *must be* pretty close....twins are another story.  As long as the crankshaft is the same design and size the internals *can't* be too far from original.

That leaves the flywheels as the culprit.

NOW---  assuming a minute a flywheel is a pound *wrong* of 'where it should be'.  Since there's a cast-in counterweight on the rim, it's not 'balanced', but SOMEWHERE, somebody HAS to know how much that counterweight is supposed to weigh.....I sure can't figure it out from the "Duels by formulae" that fly around my head.

Here's the question I'm asking---  Is that flywheel 'wrong' because the Indians put too much iron somwhere?  Or left some OUT?  Or missplaced a keyway?  Or machined the casting eccentrically?  Is there a way to determine which it is?

I just can't get excited about hanging extra weight on something that may not be structurally strong enough to take it.

To the foundation--- These engine can NOT be perfectly balanced, no matter what you do.  That's why the crankshaft is so MASSIVE and the horsepower so low. 

I'm not ready to say 'this is why it is', but it seems to me Lister designed their half of the engine pretty well.  It's up to the customer to supply the support for it.  Lister has said what that should be.

Can anybody think of WHY Lister would have specified that particular mount and mounting system if not for stabalizing the engine?
   My steelmill millwright buddy says it's a no-brainer.  The foundation is the 'other half' of the crankcase.

Listeroid Engines / Re: Exhaust smoke
« on: August 13, 2006, 11:06:30 PM »

When a monkey throws turds at you, he is playing his game
When you throw them back, you are playing his game too.
It is wasted effort for you, and it is entertainment for the monkey.



btw, i am sure it is tiresome being called to task :)

it is probably also tiresome to have to answer questions, and provide some sort of backup
for your claims,

probably very tiresome to have to collect your thoughts and put them into a coherent package

i know i am being uncivil again,,, but comeon Darren...

i have been consistant, i have delivered well supported information, and asked clear and concise questions

you sir have been all over the place, jumping from one issue to another, from one modification to another, from
for godsakes one name to another.

i guess i find that a bit hard to follow, just as it is to follow reason and a progression of idea's by someone like you.

i know that comes off harsh, and i don't mean it to be, i realize the value of the "dreamer" and equally the value of the "do'er"

just trying to figure which side the fence you are on, it would appear to the that of the dreamer.

anyway somebody got a 6/1 to set Darren up with?   please?

bob g

Listeroid Engines / Re: New use for a Listeroid
« on: August 07, 2006, 02:49:56 PM »
Ever seen the movie "Tremors"?

Makes  you wonder how bad you DO want a Lister engine that shakes the earth.  ;D


"Broke into the wrong goddamn rec room, didn't you, you BASTARD!"

Listeroid Engines / Re: Exhaust smoke
« on: August 07, 2006, 12:57:01 AM »
So the screen names change but the bullshit goes on forever.
How about them carbon fiber push rods?

At 72.3% volumetric efficiency a 6/1 ingests .00295321029 pounds of air (11.89 cfm)

Average air at sea level weighs .0807 pounds per cubic foot at standard temperature (o*c)

The full rack pump shot volume is .000203475 pounds of fuel per shot (7#'s/gal)

A diesel stoichiometeric mixture is 14.5:1

If you divide the total volume of air and fuel consumed at 72.3% you end up with a Diesel's proper air fuel ratio of 14.51:1

So anyway thats how its done with out all of the "needed" ::) test equpiment.

Peace&Love :D, Darren

Other Slow Speed Diesels / Re: Slow speed use of larger Changfa
« on: July 24, 2006, 10:56:43 AM »
This is a project I've thought about too, and here are my reservations based on working with a 195 and 1115.

Yes, Changfa flywheels lack weight and diameter of a Listeroid. These engines have a counter balance shaft, a vibration dampening feature a Listeroid doesn't have.  At idle RPM they jump around to the point their power impulses are going to be destructive.  Up around 1000 rpm they smooth out a lot.

 A new engine needs to be worked hard, to seat the rings properly. 

I'm concerned about the Changfa maintaining enough oil pressure to keep it properly lubed at such a low RPM.

If you're driving a generator, you need steady rpm and I don't think the Changfa governor is designed to do that in an idle speed range.

And finally, I haven't found a torque curve to show me how much useful torque a Changfa will make at that speed.

If anybody here knows these answers from experience, please speak up.

Older model Changfas of the 195 class made their rated power at 2000 rpm, newer ones are rated to 2200.
Run one down around 1500 and it would last a long time. Other factors permitting, I think 1200 would be even better.


Other Fuels / Re: Fischer-Tropsch back in the marketplace
« on: July 17, 2006, 03:16:10 PM »
And the "Watermelons"  (Green on the outside, pure red in the middle) will do everything they can to kill any additional coal mining to take advantage of the technology. 

Scroo-um.  This is about national security and economic survival.  Unless Al Gore and his ass-monkeys can get control of Congress, this and oil shale are going to be the energy salvation of our country.

BTW, have you ever seen what happens to a watermelon when it meets up with a 150 gr JSP traveling about 3000 fps?
Purty, ain't it?


Other Fuels / Fischer-Tropsch back in the marketplace
« on: July 17, 2006, 02:28:14 PM »
This is from my daily update to the S & A Oil Report:

Dusting Off 1920’s Technology To Make Cheap Fuel
by Matt Badiali

In the waning moments of World War II, General Patton’s tanks began to run out of fuel as they dashed across France towards Berlin.

President Eisenhower diverted supplies from Patton’s 3rd Army to the British, driving on Belgium and Holland. Patton’s only ready source of fuel was what they could salvage from German vehicles until those key ports were in Allied hands.

During the war, Germans didn’t use fuel produced from crude oil, it was produced from something a little different…

In the 1920’s, German chemists successfully synthesized liquid fuel from coal. The process was named for them: Fischer-Tropsch. That process fueled the German war machine.

Currently, the price of oil is approaching $80 a barrel, and it’s been north of $60 for all of 2006. These high prices lure companies to research alternative fuels… like older techniques that weren’t profitable at $25 or $35 oil. This includes the fuel produced from the Fischer-Tropsch process.

In the U.S., coal was strictly for electrical generation. With the possible exception of Jay Leno, nobody drives Stanley Steamer cars anymore.

However, the stable (and high) oil price encouraged one U.S. company to take the financial risk into coal to liquid processing. The company is Rentech, Inc. (RTK, News). They are turning coal into diesel fuel to compete in the lucrative trucking fuel industry. Rentech is only just starting this project, but they’ve bought infrastructure. It’s a start.

It would take years to build the infrastructure necessary to replace diesel from crude with synthetics. However, fuel from coal could fill some critical needs in our society.

First, the domestic supply of coal is huge. Coal is a source of fuel to directly compete with foreign oil.

Second, it will help lower transportation costs. If synthetic fuel options are available, diesel prices will fall. Competition is healthy for a market, but there have never been alternative fuels to consider.

There is a hugely successful company in South Africa, Sasol who’s been doing this for years. Shell recently agreed to invest $5 billion into China’s budding coal to liquid industry.

I’m excited about this process. Oil prices are high enough, and technology is advanced enough, that we are going to see some real competition in this area.

I’m not worried about oil prices falling out from under these companies. I’m sure (sorry to say) that the days of sub-$50 oil are history. The good news is that high oil prices are fueling innovation and discovery… and this area will produce some big winners in the stock market.

Good Investing,

Matt Badiali

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