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Messages - codesuidae

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1
Generators / Re: ST generator theory of operation?
« on: January 25, 2007, 01:52:35 AM »
Oh, excellent, I have his CD, I just haven't gotten that far I guess. Thanks!

2
Generators / Re: ST generator theory of operation?
« on: January 24, 2007, 10:42:11 PM »
This matches what I understand about alternators.

Is the 1kW limit on a magnetic generator mostly economic? Do magnets necessary to produce more than 1kW just cost too much to make it worthwhile?

In the ST generators, how does the voltage regulation work? I know that the Z winding is involved, but I don't understand where it is wound or how it is employed to modify the field current in order to control the output voltage?

3
Generators / ST generator theory of operation?
« on: January 24, 2007, 04:58:23 PM »
I'd like to learn more about how the ST type generators work. I wonder if someone could refer me to a resource describing the details of how this specific type of generator works.

I'm interested in learning the basics about how voltage regulation is done as well. I've read many of the discussion threads here about the problems with the simple voltage regulation found in many of the ST heads and the problems it causes with the waveform, but without understanding more about how the generator works I'm having difficulty understanding the problem with any depth.

I've read a number of articles about construction of 3 phase generators for wind turbines, but these have all been constructed with magnets. I don't yet have an ST generator to disassemble so I'm not quite sure what to look up.

Thanks!

4
Listeroid Engines / Re: Need help guys...
« on: October 11, 2006, 03:02:26 AM »
If you've got a jumper, bolt a plate on the bottom with a big handle and use it as a vibrator for tamping gravel before you run concrete. Watch your toes  :o

5
Listeroid Engines / Re: Obtaining listeroid 6/1?
« on: October 11, 2006, 01:46:59 AM »
D'oh, sorry, I'm near Omaha, NE, 68022.

I've just started looking at the listeroids over the last month or so, and the prices I've been seeing for a 6/1 is about $1500, then up to about $250 for shipping.  Is this the old, cheap price, or the new higher price?

Doesn't seem unreasonable for something that'll last for many years and run on vegetable oil, which is what I plan to do with it.

Thanks!

6
Listeroid Engines / Obtaining listeroid 6/1?
« on: October 10, 2006, 05:33:42 PM »
Howdy all,

I'm a bit of a newbie here, so apologies for the simple question and frustration.

I'm trying to find someone to sell me a 6/1 listeroid some in the next couple of months, but it doesn't seem like anyone really wants to sell them.  I emailed a couple of guys from the marketplace forum who advertised them and someone I was referred to by a reputable source, and no one replies to my requests for information (except the ones who aren't selling the engines anymore because of EPA regs).

Is listeroid ownership a of private club where I have to pretend to know what I'm doing before anybody will sell me one? Bad form to look like a newbie while trying to buy one? Magic words one has to invoke when requesting a quote?

Granted, I'm not standing here with cash in hand ready to buy, but I'm at least hoping someone who sells the engines (or 'spare parts wink wink nudge nudge') might at least give me a ballpark price and tell me if I need to make any special provisions for getting the thing off the truck and into the garage when it arrives. I like to prepare and know what I'm getting into before I drop a substantial amount of cash on something, so the silence is frustrating.

Is it common to have difficulty finding someone who sells these things? Have the EPA regs killed the domestic listeroid market already?

Thanks for any advice.

7
Lister Based Generators / Re: Listeroid backup generator questions
« on: September 28, 2006, 09:58:22 PM »
About 1150 feet. Near Omaha Nebraska.

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Lister Based Generators / Re: Listeroid backup generator questions
« on: September 28, 2006, 07:52:55 PM »
The 6/1 will only realisticly produce 3000 watts.

I think thats a pretty reasonable amount of power to run the house excepting big stuff. Might have to forgo the jet pump in the bath, but I don't think even my wife would consider that 'roughing it'.  :D

My guess is that you will produce somewhat less with such a big gen head. Maybe 2500 watts. While this is just a guess, the fact remains that the big heads have big fans and move a bunch more air. This eats up some power.

I think I'll probably go down to a 10kw head (I like the idea of the built in welder option that some of them have). More power would be nice, but I have to keep in mind that I'm trying to reduce my power usage too (with the AC running this Aug I used 2.5MWh :o )

I was thinking some large bimetallic strips in the exhaust from each cylinder.  Use them for feedback to a mechanical linkage that adjusts and balances the power output from each engine or even each cylinder.

Would you expect the exhaust temperature in a driven engine to go up or down? I was wondering about monitoring exhaust, but since the engine RPM wouldn't try to change I don't know what too look for. Would it continue consuming the same amount of fuel and just waste it as heat?

You mentioned living off-grid on PV for 12 years. What do you use for batteries and how much maintenance and replacement do they require?

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Lister Based Generators / Re: Listeroid backup generator questions
« on: September 28, 2006, 05:24:48 PM »
Clearly the 6/1 isn't going to be able to generate 15kw just because the head has that capacity. That's ok, most of the time the load for the house is under 3kw, which the 6/1 should handle (at least, it would handle it on a 5kw head).

What I'm concerned about is if using the big head will result in significantly less electricty output per HP of motor, or difficulty starting the engine. For example, if the 15kw head making 3kw required 6.5hp from the engine whereas the 5kw head making 3kw only required 6hp. I don't know enough about generators to know if there is any drawback to having much more generator capacity than the engine can supply.

It sounds like this won't be a big deal and may actuall solve some issues which is great, because I'd rather buy the 15kw head.

Regarding driving a single head with two engines. If I had a way to measure if an engine was pushing or being pulled I could use some simple electronics to adjust the fuel to balance the load.

I could try putting idler wheels on the belts and a strain guage on the idler wheel mounts. When the engine is making power one side of the belt will be under tension, when it is being driven the other side will be under tension (to a lesser degree I presume). Electronically monitoring the belt tension via the strain guage on the idler would provide the information necessary to adjust the fuel to the engines to balance the load. I hesitate to invent something like this until I learn more about the usual solutions. I hate to complicate fuel control with electronics if a more reliable and cheap solution is available.

My current plan is to get a large battery backed UPS system (probably salvage from a datacenter) to carry the critical loads. The battery bank will be large enough to wait a few minutes for grid power to come back (its atypical for the power to be out longer than a few seconds, but it has been down for as long as two days). Once this part of the system is working I'll integrate a 6/1 and 15kw head between the UPS and (probably manual) transfer switch. The generator will come up and the UPS will go offline and recharge, allowing the generator to run everything. I'll manually ensure that the big loads stay off since the 6/1 won't have the capacity to handle them. Finally, I'll consider integrating a 12/1 so that I can use the big loads.

I suspect I'll find that I don't need the 12/1 at all because it will only be necessary for running the AC, dryer and ovens. All of this I can do without during an on-grid power outage. When I move off-grid I'll buy gas appliances and won't need AC at all (planning for earth sheltered concrete dome construction).

The purpose of the project is to learn how to run these things so I can move off-grid eventually, and also to give me some really cool toys to work with  ;D

Anyway, sorry to be so long-winded and thanks for the input!

10
Lister Based Generators / Listeroid backup generator questions
« on: September 28, 2006, 05:25:34 AM »
I am planning to buy a 6/1 listeroid for backup power generation. I have a few questions about how to set it up.

First, is it a bad idea to use a genhead that is oversized for the engine? I'd like to be able to use the genhead with another larger engine. I could save some money if I can use the larger (15Kw) ST generator on the 6/1 listeroid.

Second, when the generator is running the house, how important is it to have the load balanced between the two 110v branches? If the loads are severely unbalanced what is the consequence?

Third, if I'm running a large enough generator, can I attach a second listeroid (maybe a 12/1) to it and share the load between the two engines? Would it be better to set up the second engine to drive an induction motor to sync it to the first motor?

Thanks!

11
Engines / Re: Lubrication with veg oil?
« on: September 27, 2006, 02:06:09 AM »
Thanks for the comments.

The crankcase flow-through idea is something that I was considering in the case that the seed oil could be used without additives. If additives are required this would have the unfortunate side-effect of greatly increasing the consumption of the additive.

If the oil is used additive free and provides marginal lubrication are the bearings that are likely to be affected easily replaceable, or would major parts of the engine also be affected?

Since my lister will be doing duty as a backup generator for a few years I won't mind experimenting with SVO lubricants, provided that the parts that would see excessive wear would not be terribly expensive to replace. I'd probably break it in on whatever the recommended oil is then run it for a while while sending regular samples to the lab for analysis. Once it's all happily broken in I'll switch to SVO and continue running to see what turns up in the analysis.

I'd like to be able to, in principle, not have to depend on regular replenishment of commercial products in my off-grid home. Pratically speaking I will continue to obtain replenishment items to save myself some time, but as a guiding principle I want to have the option to ignore the greater portion of civilization for extended periods. I have no reason in particular for the requirement other than the challenge and a general desire to be self-sufficent.

I registered over on the Noria boards to see if I could find someone who might already know why this is a bad idea, or what could be done to make it workable.

12
Engines / Lubrication with veg oil?
« on: September 26, 2006, 02:13:08 AM »
Greetings all,

I'm planning to buy a lister-type engine, initially for backup power for an on-grid home and eventually for service as the primary generator for an off-grid home. Part of my goal in living off-grid is to be as self-sufficent as possible (or at least to demonstrate to myself the capacity to be) and so I'm planning to experiment with using exclusively home-grown seed oils for fuel. If this works out I'm left with supplying an appropriate oil for lubrication of the engine.

The obvious question follows, is there an oil I can produce myself (in the midwest of the USA) that could serve in place of motor oil for lubricating the lister?

Thanks for the advice.  I've just started reading about these engines in the past few weeks, and have yet to get my hands on one, so apologies if my question seems silly.

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