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Messages - hotater

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Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Container shipping out of England
« on: October 23, 2011, 05:01:55 PM »
 hotater comes rushing into the room waving both arms....after being gone a couple of years.

Please put me on the list for a 6-1 and pump on a base and I'll go back through the thread and try to catch up.

I'm at  jbelk09 at g mail dot com

Red Stone Engines / Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« on: July 18, 2009, 11:55:56 PM »
Excellent report.  Well done.

My first 6-1 Listeroid was like a very top heavy whacky-packer.  (Jumping jack dirt tamper, for the rest of the world.)  With no way to hold it, catch it, or out run it.

Red Stone Engines / Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« on: July 07, 2009, 03:23:18 AM »
Sorry I missed the history, Prof. 

All steel shafting is pretty flexible and the cross-hole tapered pins of the Listeroids (and I presume Redstone) dont stiffen them any, and it precludes using pre-heattreated shafting, too.
  O-1, oil hardening, high carbon, 'tool' steel is available in turn, ground and polished finishes in inch, metric, over and under-sized nominals in all sizes.  There are other alloys that would be even better for the job but the tapered pins would cause problems in 304 and 316 SS and some PH grades.

It would be fun to fit the lobes on a ten over 4130 shaft and oven braze them in place, then grind to finish dimensions on the bearing sufaces, and it wouldn't be too hard to do, but by the time you rebuild all the parts that need it you wont need the engine.  ;D
Ya gotta quit short of perfection before time runs out, but the amount of time taken in search of perfection determines the craftsman.

Red Stone Engines / Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« on: July 07, 2009, 01:09:36 AM »
It's always suspicious when a part is left completely out of a machine.  That's more than forgetfulness, it's usually because it wont fit.   
  I'd check the run-out on the cam to be sure the cam isn't bent which would mean the engine would bind up in 'testing'.  Leave out the outboard bushing and the binding problem is solved.

My point is: Always try to figure out WHY a mistake is made so another one isn't made fixing it.

Listeroid Engines / Re: Chopping up my Listeroid!!
« on: June 23, 2009, 09:49:07 PM »
I recall the only thing that the engine came with was some parts lists written in Indian.

That in likely the reprint of the English 'operator's manual' that came with the original Lister engines.  There is a certain amount of Listeriodism not given to written instructions, but the basics are in the book and many of the details on the CD.

If you have tapered roller bearings you don't need an oil pump but you do need a dipper.  A simple catch screen with a washcloth under it is a 'filter'.  If it doesn't have an oil drain hole (some didn't) either make one or dip, siphon, pump, or sop out the old oil.

By the nature of the beast it is NOT entirely correct as a long lasting engine.  George's CD and numerous other references tell what to look for and how to correct them.

The average Listeroid maker is probably better suited to digging ditches but he'd probably get confused between deep and wide.....It is important to know the difference between 'normal' and 'mistake' on a Lister.  There are plenty of examples of each in a 'normal' engine (bought out of the back of a nearly smugglin'  truck.)   ;D

Listeroid Engines / Re: Chopping up my Listeroid!!
« on: June 23, 2009, 03:22:28 AM »
Could it be you're into this project nearly two years and still don't have 'George's CD' which answers all questions and has two years worth of reading in it?

Tsk tsk.  You're getting further behind by the day.    ;)

Red Stone Engines / Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« on: June 19, 2009, 01:07:14 AM »
I CAN provide you with a properly finished Listeroid or Redstone -

Yes he can!

Red Stone Engines / Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« on: June 19, 2009, 12:36:24 AM »
...and then there are the flocks of officials at customs, Ag Dept, Homeland Sec., shipping companies, dock workers, bonded warehouses, tarriff officials and inspectors of every grade just waiting like buzzards for the EPA to outlaw everything resembling 'obsolete technology'  (hobbies are for the Bourgeois  and demand they be made into artificial reefs for the endangered hairy snapper.

When you add in the risk of whirling Indian iron in notably porous flywheels capable of scattering various amounts of civil liability into multiple jurisdictions, the fact that you *certified* it of good quality will drain your total worth to millions below zero like a firecracker in a cow patty.

SO, the work to make one 'right' could be $2000 and the ability to insure against catastrophic failure a like amount.....IF you can convince an underwriter to take the coverage.  Smart ones charge more for more risk.  Some flywheels have broken.   I saw a little KID running around a running 6-1 on youtube.  It's just a matter of time before one is turned into a juicy version of a flap-wheel grinder.  Some Congressman or Peer will write a bill......

Grab one when you can, buy George's CD and STUDY what has been learned about the fascinating world of new old engines.  All you need is a level, a square, a set of feeler gages and a straight-edge to set one up to run longer than most lawn mower wantabes.

There was a Cricket roller with a 5-1 in it on ebay several years ago.   ;D

I'm going to jack-shaft one to a concrete mixer of a big pool project this summer.

Red Stone Engines / Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« on: June 18, 2009, 09:14:21 PM »

Having re-built two Listeroid 6-1s and run them about 16 hours a day for a total of 10,000 hours and then having to offer the engine for sale, I can I think, fairly answer that question, but it's loaded with agonizing second guessing by others.

I used "$.35/KWh" using my Listeroids as an example.  They ran at 5500 feet elevation and carried a load of a near constant 2800 watt load with spikes to 5500 when a freezer started.  I had bigger gensets for the bigger loads and the Listeroids ran as 'everyday power'.

I think a properly 'corrected' 6-1 is worth *at least* $3500.  The guy doing the work might think otherwise, depending on what it takes to 'make it right'.

To *clean* an engine is different than making sure the piston runs square with the cylinder walls and the crankshaft is square with the head.

 To  *do a valve job* is much different on some Listeroids than anything an auto machine shop is even capable of doing.  To find someone that *wanted* to do it would be harder than paying for a very bad, but expensive job from Dufus McGrew the Snuffdipper that's an expert because he recognizes three angles.

I priced my 'Magic Throb II' engine and 5Kw ST head, mounted on solid concrete and wired to the structure at $5000 and it was turned down.  (whew!)
I still own it and the concrete is already poured to hear it purr again, but I'm (barely) on grid and don't need it every day, now.

Red Stone Engines / Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« on: June 18, 2009, 07:48:53 PM »
I've said it before and I'll say it again,  ALL Chinese and Indian engines **of this type and price range** should be considered a "kit" engine that will need inspection, corrections, and an *understanding of* before putting into use.  Failure to do so could result in the failure of the engine or even a lack of basic safety.

An engine **advertised** as NOT needing that treatment and 'ready to run till it breaks' has either been carefully worked over by a 'correction mechanic (and usually a machinist, too) at considerable extra cost,  or is a fantastic bargain by a gambling importer that hopes nobody looks.....or a crook is trying to sell by lying about it.

There is no free lunch.   An engine that produces usable horse-power for ten thousand hours on a small amount of a wide variety of fuels is worth at least $.35 per kilowatt hour produced.  I proved it to myself and wrote of the experience  

  When that cost of the basic engine is added to the fuel it uses and the gen-head or pump you're driving, and the care, feeding and maintenance of the unit, its clear that home-made electricity is not cheap, but it is independent and there's a lot to be said for that.

If you're in the market for a cheap engine in an effort to save money?  Forget it.  Either plan on working on it, spending some money to get it right, or pay somebody else to do it.  The final price is the same.  The enjoyment is the difference.  Consider it a very useful hobby, work with the importer, and have a LOT of fun creating what the Indo/Chinese usually miss, but give you the basics of a very useful engine that you can't *build* in a home shop, but you can sure correct it and repair it there if needed.

Red Stone Engines / Re: Redstone engines
« on: May 10, 2009, 04:15:30 PM »
No way the Brits are dumb enough to let Lucas near a submarine!

This is a pretty good three thread 'cord' we got going here. If somebody will introduce a couple more subjects we could build an internet rope!

Red Stone Engines / Re: Redstone engines
« on: May 10, 2009, 01:44:37 PM »

We are saying the SAME thing.  Mega thrust earthquakes DO happen on the Pacific coast just as they do in the Himalayan Arc and the Mt. McKinley Arc in Alaska.  My point is that the 'slip/creep' means THAT part of the fault is no 'bound'.  Of COURSE other parts of the fault are gaining stress and will slip in a megathrust quake, its only a matter of time.....which can he said of everything.  TIME is  dimension we short-lived humans can't understand.

Red Stone Engines / Re: Redstone engines
« on: May 10, 2009, 03:02:47 AM »
I was originally going to go into geomorphology specializing in volcanism

Me too.  Geology is still my first love.

I disagree with, "The stress keeps building up, ".   I submit the slip is *relieving* stress and not 'building' it.   Once the subducted member reaches the plastic zone above the mantle it's assimilated, but the gases and more 'fragile' organics feed the Cascade volcano chain.

I think it's great they can 'see' these deep slips, but I still maintain the faults that are locked are the ones that are 'building stress' and unless a fault has been historically active, is likely to be mistaken for a 'quiet' fault or no fault at all.

The Wasatch Front running through Salt Lake City is a great example.

Slip is a GOOD thing and the steps in it reflect Newtonian Physical Laws, which is also a good thing.

Red Stone Engines / Re: Redstone engines
« on: May 09, 2009, 12:14:47 AM »
Interesting how the same data means different things to different people.  The article mentioned 'triggering a big quake'.

The periodic slip, would seem to me to be a signal that the faults are not locked and therefore the energy for a 9.0 is being bled off non-destructively.  It's when they go silent for a hundred or so years that you get the great slip-thrust quakes like Anchorage 1964.  I think the concern is that slip in one place equals stress in another, but how do you discern a 'quiet fault' from a 'bound fault' from no fault at all?

The FACT is, humans haven't been here long enough to have sufficient information to know even partially for sure how all this works.  The ones that sound most sure of themselves get the grant money.

I wonder how much horsepower the Juan de Fuca tectonic plate has to have to move an inch a year?

Red Stone Engines / Re: Redstone engines
« on: May 08, 2009, 08:06:09 PM »
you are just trying to get Bob all in a tither.....

Bob is like a crossbow with a set trigger.  He gets all wound up and tight over a month or two and then the simplest of statements ..... THWANNNg!!!!

I'm just trying to relieve some pressure.

A lack of proper and permanent engine mounts reflects on the mobility of the person that owns it.  Bob ain't lit fer good yet.

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