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Messages - WWIProps

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1
Listeroid Engines / Re: Danger: Broken Flywheel
« on: May 04, 2007, 02:55:42 AM »
My 6/1 Metro broke its crank.  The broken part showed 60% of the area was porous from improper casting.  I stopped throwing good money after bad and now run a Yanmar 3T72.  It has electric start, auto shutdown for low oil press or overheat, is compact, lightweight, relatively quiet, smooth...   There are plenty of better solutions out there than a Listeroid.  The concept that the slow speed diesel lasts longer does not hold for the Indian Listeroids because the quality is not there.  Check out some used truck refrigeration units for potential engines.

2
Listeroid Engines / Re: Metro 6/1 Improvemsnts
« on: January 20, 2007, 10:17:16 PM »
Rick Rowlands,

Do you want to get a couple made?  My concern is not so much the money but spending the money for a poorly cast piece that is just going to give me the same problem again.

Scott

3
Listeroid Engines / Re: Metro 6/1 Improvemsnts
« on: January 19, 2007, 03:42:41 AM »
Check the crank carefully.  My first Metro 6/1 had an absolutely silly, out of round grind on the rod journal.  The second one broke the crank.  2/3 of the metal in the break area was very pourous from improper casting.  I just haven't been inclined to put another Metro crank in for $250.00 plus the hassel of removing the flywheels.

4
6/1 broken Crankshaft at 1200 hours.

About 1/3 of the broken area looks like it was taking the load.

About 2/3 of the area across the break looks like it was cast improperly and is very porous.

Scott

5
Listeroid Engines / Cylinder Wear
« on: May 03, 2006, 01:58:44 AM »
Has anyone measured their cylinder wear, if so what were the results?

I pulled the head on my 6/1 the other day and found a signficant ridge at the top of the cylinder after 1500 hours of operation.  I was not able to measure the wear beacause my micrometer was loaned out to someone else. Performance has been diminished as well.

What should you see in a compression test?

Anoyone have better rings and chromed cylinder sleeves?

Thanks,
Scott

6
Lister Based Generators / Re: JKSON (VOLVOX) test run
« on: April 26, 2006, 02:18:58 AM »
Ken,

What exactly are you using for your injection line heater?  Do you know how much power it consumes?

Thanks,
Scott

7
Schoust,

It draws 18 amps at 240Volts!  I have an old reverse power relay but haven't really figured out how to hook it up yet.  It hasn't really been problem.

Regards,
Scott

8
Schoust,

Absolutely if he can wind it right.  I do not know if there is any difference in the design of the rotor structure and if you lose any efficiency, but then again if you are using WVO it doesn't matter as much.

Scott

9
Try talking to your Public Utilities Commission.  They may direct you to one of the more sympathetic points of contact at your utility or know of a way that you can request a variance.  They may even do some of the convincing for you.

Scott

10
Steve,

If the power drop is enough to stop a digital clock on the microwave it is enough to trip the magnetic starter.  Not very scientific, but that is about the only gauge I can give you to go by.

The starter I use is from Cerrus Industrial.  It is wired for single phase 230volts.   I think it cost around $125 new.  There are probably a lot of used ones out there for less money.

Scott

11
Steve,

Keep the capacitors out of the system and use a magnetic starter for your protection relay, that is all the protection you need.  Volts and Freq will not change with an induction motor and NO capacitors.

If you want a back up generator with this set up, mount a second head on the frame, install a standard transfer switch, and simply swap the belt over when the power fails.  The second gen head and switch will probably cost about the same as all the extra relays and give you more functionality.

Regards,
Scott

12
Dear Steve,

Doug pretty much summed up the magnetic relay.  It truly works that way.  Seems too simple doesn't it?

As far as over/under volt/frequency relays go, you should put up a good fight with the utility if required.  The relays are just not required.  My freqs and volts stay the same whether the induction generator is off or on.

Scott

13
Pigseye,

Just a couple of points on your recent posts.

If you run a single phase induction motor/generator with the capacitors removed you will not be able to use the electric motor as a starter due to the huge inrush current.  I typically start my lister up and get it running. Then I ease the transition to the generator coming on line by lifting the fuel shutoff lever, immediately pressing the on button for my magnetic relay and then put the fuel lever back down so the lister picks up the load.

An amp meter is absolutely essential to the set up.  I adjust mine so it is set at about 1 amp below the smoke point.  On my 6/1 with either the 7.5HP or 5 HP induction single phase motor on it I run at about 26 amps 240 volts.  About 40% of those amps are reactive power for excitation.  The 5 hp generator ran at 200Deg F the 7.5 runs at 120 Deg F case temp.

As far as syncing with the grid goes, the induction generator is inherently in sync with the volts and frequency.  My variation is 1/10 of HZ and 1 volt with the lister on or off.

Scott


14
Lister Based Generators / Re: Central Air and 15kW Genset
« on: April 01, 2006, 12:33:41 PM »
"If a customer-generator operates a renewable energy facility, then the utility pays the retail rate for net excess generation. "  That is why it has to be veggie and absolutely not diesel.  Some states won't buy off on veggie as a renewable fuel, you will have to check. 

If you were runnig diesel then "For non-renewable generation sources, the utility pays their avoided cost for net excess generation." would apply.

Scott

15
Lister Based Generators / Re: Central Air and 15kW Genset
« on: April 01, 2006, 02:58:28 AM »
USe net metering to bank electricity over the winter.  Use the Listeroid to provide electricity and heat in the winter, build up an excess credit with the utility and burn down the credit over the summer.  This way you only have to size for an average load and the utility can take care of the peak load.

Here is a summary of the WI net metering rules:

Wisconsin Net Billing Order
Net metering in Wisconsin is authorized by Public Service Commission of Wisconsin (PSCW) Order 6690-UR-107, effective January 1, 1993. The order applies to all utilities under the jurisdiction of PSCW (investor-owned utilities). Rural electric cooperatives in Wisconsin are not rate-regulated by PSCW, but they often follow Commission’s rulings voluntarily, and several rural electric cooperatives are preparing to offer net metering to their customers. Wisconsin’s net metering applies to customer-owned electric generation facilities that are rated at 20 kW or less, regardless of energy sources.

The utility’s electric meter is permitted to run backward when the customer is generating electric power to feed into the utility grid. If the amount of energy supplied to the utility exceeds the amount of energy consumed, the customer will receive a credit on his monthly bill equal to the net excess kilowatt-hours of energy received by the utility multiplied by the Energy Credit Rate, including any applicable adjustment for cost of fuel, or the customer will receive a check for this amount issued by the utility. Any credits to the customer shall be reduced by the monthly customer charge of the standard applicable rate schedule. Actual issuance of a check payable to the customer shall not occur until the amount due the customer exceeds $25. If a customer-generator operates a renewable energy facility, then the utility pays the retail rate for net excess generation. For non-renewable generation sources, the utility pays their avoided cost for net excess generation.

For further information, refer to Public Service Commission of Wisconsin (PSCW) Order 6690-UR-107.

Contact: Paul Helgeson
Public Service Commission of Wisconsin
Fax: (608) 266-3957
E-Mail: paul.helgeson@psc.state.wi.us

Look for my other posts on Cogen and use of an induction generator for more info.  The only downside is that you do not have back up generation when the grid is down.

By the way, you have to run WVO.  Dino diesel will break the bank!

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Scott

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