Whoa........  SCARY.........

These guys have more guts than brains. 

Hi Guys,

I have been reading lots of threads regarding engine balancing and all the techniques used to achieve this.

In many cases there are YouTube films of engine started while sitting on a pallet and shaking all over the place.    These are worse case scenarios where the engine is not rigidly mounted and it is impossible to tell if the vibration is due to unbalance or other factors.

My question is.......

If an engine is installed properly and fixed to a solid (heavy) concrete slab as Lister recommends,   How do you tell if the engine is properly balanced?

Would the mass  of the concrete and solid mounting not tend to "hide" some of the unbalance that may be present in an engine?   
This is what a large slab of concrete is intended to do.

Does this make balancing more difficult?

Best regards,

Bill

Hi Guys,

Today I went to see Jim Calder (Just Live Off Grid) to get some spare parts for my Lister clone.

Jim has a lot of spare parts (although not yet listed on his website).   If you are looking for something, just give him a call.

I thought I would stock up on a few common items..........




A couple of gasket kits......



Connecting rod bearings (both ends)



Valves, Valve Guides and Valve Springs



Piston Ring Set



Glow Plug (this baby is getting installed in the beginning).  I am in Canada and it can get cold up here ! 



Cheers !!!

Bill

Hi Guys,

I realize this topic has been touched upon in many threads but I would like a bit of advice........

OK, I have a new Listeroid 6 HP "Powerline" engine that I purchased from nice folks at "Just Live Off Grid".   The engine looks very good (from the outside) and I am happy with it.   I realize that it would be prudent of me to do some inspection and any necessary cleaning/ adjustments before the engine is run for the first time.     

Jim Calder has already had one of the engines from this lot apart and said it was very clean.     I recall him saying that he asked that the internal surfaces of these engines NOT be painted so that sand could not be trapped by the paint.   I have not opened up my engine yet.

I have a lot of time this winter, so I am not in a hurry to get the engine running.    What I would like to do is make a list of those items that the more experienced members of this forum feel are important to do/ check before a new engine is run.

A proper concrete base, cooling system, exhaust and fuel system will be in place before I start this motor.  I think I have a good feel for the "external equipment" requirements of these motors.    However I have had no experience is preparing an Indian listeroid for a safe first start.

I an anxious to learn from the folks who have "been there, done that".

Cheers !!!


Bill

Hi Guys,

Horepower ratings on air compressors is an industry SCAM to get you to buy the one with the bigger (FAKE) horepower rating......

From the internet...........

Sure, there's a big sticker on the tank, with a big "6 HP" on it. But if you look at the nameplate on the motor itself, the place where the horsepower is supposed to be listed, it is either blank, or says "SPL". (Someone's Probably Lying?) A closer look at the big sticker on the tank may even reveal some fine print saying "peak" horsepower.

We're talking about portable electric compressors here, that run off of an ordinary household outlet, 120 volts.

This is one case that I've reported to several "consumer protection" type agencies over the past years. Knowing what I do about electrical and mechanical things, I immediately had to take a second look when I saw these compressors on the floor at a local home center. The motor on it was physically way to small to be anywhere near 5 real horsepower, but the store's poster advertised it as "5 hp".

I made note of the electrical ratings on the motor, When I got home I ran the numbers, and taking into acount the efficiency and power factor of the motor, I concluded it was actually a 1-3/4 hp. unit, 2 hp. max.

So what's happening here is an outright lie. And it's several different manufacturers doing it. The air compressor manufacturer does not make the electric motor, but buys it from a motor manufacturer. The motor manufacturer knows it could get in trouble by putting a false horsepower rating on the motor, because there are standards for determining horsepower. If someone were to take that motor off of the compressor and use it in another application, the truth would come out. So to stay out of trouble, they don't mark the hp. rating on the motor. And they also call it a special "air-compressor duty" motor, and say 'do not use in any other application', or something to that effect. Gee, I wonder why?

So it's the air compressor manufacturers that are twisting the truth. Obviously the motor manufacturers are aware of it, but have their butts covered.

My complaints about this fell on deaf ears, for the most part. One manufacturer sent some papers to the consumer protection agency, with charts and graphs, explaining basically that if you can make a motor put out 5 hp. long enough to get a reading, then it's a 5 hp. motor. Uh Huh. But the agency accepted that answer. I don't imagine that anyone at such an agency would know a horsepower from a watt.

The truth is, 1 horsepower is the amount of power needed to lift a weight of 33,000 pounds a distance of 1 foot in one minute, or 550 foot-pounds per second. And a motor rated at 1 (real) horsepower could do just that. Also, most electric motors are capable of producing two or three times their rated power during start-up, just for a second or two, to get up to speed. This is probably where the "peak horsepower" rating comes from, but really has no useful purpose for the consumer.

Additionally, a standard wall outlet (120 volt) can produce only 1800 to 2400 watts of electricity. (Volts X Amps = Watts.) A commonly used formula for converting watts into horsepower is 1000 watts equals 1 horsepower. This accounts for losses in the motor. So a 15 amp wall outlet can run 1800 watts or only 1.8 hp., and a heavier duty 20 amp outlet, as you might find in your kitchen, could run 2400 watts, or 2.4 hp. So any appliance that runs on regular power, and claims to be more than a couple of horsepower, is BS!

Early in the 2000's, I read that there was a class-action lawsuit about the air compressors, and the manufacturers agreed to cut the BS, but I still see them for sale every day, all the way up to 6.5 hp. now. I recently found an imported unit that is brave enough to actually list "5hp" on the motor itself, but acording to the electrical info on the motor, same crap, it's 2 hp. max.

Now you have the real story.........

Cheers !!!!

Bill

Hi Guys,

Today I went to see Jim Calder ( justlive offgrid.com ) to get some spare parts for my
Lister clone.   Jim had a lot of sorting to do since the container of diesel engines and parts
arrived from India a few weeks ago.

I figured I would get a few spare parts to have handy in case I ever need them.

Jim is keeping a twin 12 HP for himself from this shipment to operate his shop.
He has a couple of other Listers that run his off-grid home, but needed additional
power to operate his shop equipment.

He had his twin 12 HP un-crated as well as a couple others.   Overall I was impressed
with the quality.   The electric starters looked very robust and are mounted to
the engine with 1/2 inch plate steel.  I was also surprised to learn that the
electric start engines come with an alternator as well.

Jim said he had opened up one of the engines and found it very clean inside.

I got some spare gaskets, bearings, valves, rings and a few other parts.

I am looking forward to my winter project.

Cheers,

Bill

Here are some photos I took at Jim's place today...

Hi Guys,

My engine has been sitting in the middle of my driveway for several days now.   It was uncrated, but still bolted to pallet that it came on.

I made a new base for it with wheels so that I can move it around my shop.   However, first I must pick up the engine to remove the shipping pallet and put it on the new mobile base.    Previous comments on this forum cautioned on the engine being top heavy.     SAFETY FIRST!  Before lifting make sure you have good plan.

The 6 HP POWER LINE engine that Jim Caulder got for me has TWO longer head studs that can be used for lifting.   Nifty idea and I like the fact there are TWO so the engine can remain balanced.



I had a local sheet metal shop bend me a couple angle brackets and a spreader to put them together.    A trip to Home Depot got me the chain and clevis pins I needed.   A few holes were all that was necessary (no welding). These were assembled on to the engine.







The engine remained perfectly balanced when listed and placing it on the new platform was a breeze....



Rolling it into the shop was easy.





Cheers !!!!

Does anyone have any idea of how fast (minimum RPM) that the engine must spin to have enough energy to overcome compression (after exhaust valve is released).

If a drive system can not spin the engine fast enough to overcome the compression stroke (after the exhaust valve is released) the engine can not be started.

I hope to use a similar system with a long shaft FORD starter motor.    Knowing the minimum speed requirements will help determine the size of the drive roller to fit on the starter motor.    Too large and the loading on the starter will be high.   Too small and there may not be enough speed (energy in flywheels) to overcome compression after the exhaust valve is released.

I don't think that any rubber roller starter system is capable of starting an engine without compression release.     That may be a good thing, because it requires you to be at the engine at the time of starting.

Cheers !!!

Bill