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Messages - Powdermonkey

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1
Engines / Re: Slip....kerplunk!
« on: March 06, 2024, 12:20:28 PM »
After some consideration, I wound up going with 18/1.  By way of measuring EVERYTHING for volume on each cylinder, piston dish volume and head volume, as well as balancing both rotating assemblies (and pistons), AND wheels (for weight and balance) I then put a spreadsheet together to figure out "same" compression ratio...by way of adjusting the bottom shim stock. 

While this is not the "redneck" approach, I had the resources at hand to do the work.  And being that this engine is a prime mover for "real work", I figured I'd build it correctly.

2
Engines / Slip....kerplunk!
« on: March 04, 2024, 11:23:57 PM »
Well....due to me wanting to get my compression correct between the cylinders of a twin listeroid, ONE of the cylinders required a "minimalistic" approach with the base gasket below the cylinder.  AND...this VERY thin gasket resulted in some oil being evenly distributed about the bottom end of my engine...on the OUTSIDE.  So...me ordered a goodly sized tube of RTV...for a caulking gun, and went to work.  After spraying down the twin with a pressure washer, drying it off, and then cleaning the vertical and horizontal mating surface with some goodly quantity of carburetor cleaner (and then wiping it off clean), I caulked the hell out of that joint between the body of the engine and #1 cylinder.  AND FOR GOOD MEASURE, I figured I'd also aptly caulk under the cam follower support housings for the valves....(being that I don't know the formal "kennel name" for such things...ahem "Valve Tappet Guide")

Well....do YOU know that those blasted valve tappets DO slide up and down, inside those guides?  Who'd have thought?  And...if you don't watch it, those valve tappets WILL slide RIGHT OUT of those guides, and deposit themselves down into the bowels of a lister?  Well....it was time for an oil change anyway. 

And so...after draining the oil from the sump, I managed to find that entire valve tappet, safely bathed in a goodly quantity of perfectly-good 500-hour oil.  And I thought to myself, "Now....I'm not that flexible so as to wrap my arm up under that crankshaft, over the camshaft, place that valve tappet up into its location...AND hold it in place with the OTHER hand, while also balanced upon a 2-foot flywheel"  Nope. 

Hmmm...I thought.  There, THERE in the recesses of the laboratory is a 10-foot cutting of some spare 14-gauge solid electrical wire.  AND IF I WERE SMART, I'd form that into a bit of a fish-tape.  And so....I grabbed the ground-wire off that bunch of Romex 14 gauge wire, and fished it DOWN from the valve tappet guide hole, to the inside of the cam, to the outside of the crankshaft, down into the sump...and out the door. 

I wrapped that 14-gauge wire around the valve tappet about 5 or 4 times, then dog-legged the last wrap, so that any tension I placed upon that wire as I was pulling the valve tappet back through the inner workings of that listeroid would cause the thin-end to travel first. 

DO YOU KNOW that within about 30 seconds of wrapping that valve tappet in wire, and a few "words of encouragement", I had the stub of that valve tappet pinched between my fingers, perched on top of the hole for the valve tappet guide? 

Yep.  And that's how I slayed the dragon today. 

3
Listeroid Engines / Re: Knocking, now what?
« on: February 13, 2024, 12:23:09 PM »
It could very likely be the wrist pin/piston or wrist pin/conn rod....Run that cylinder to TDC with the exhaust valve bypassed.  Rock the flywheel back and forth around TDC, and determine if you can feel/hear slack in that wrist pin.  "MIGHT" take a gentle feel....ahem. 

COULD also be fuel pump timing, versus the burn rate of your particular diesel fuel.  IIRC, cetane SLOWS the burn rate of diesel fuel.  If I'm correct, you could add some cetane to the fuel, and determine if the pump might be too far advanced....of course you could also mechanically check your timing too. 

A simple way to retard your fuel pump timing is to slacken up both anchor bolts on the pump, and add in equal amounts of "body shims" (automotive panel shims) between the fuel pump base and fuel pump.  Then...retighten those bolts.  Try about a 1/16" set of shims first. 

4
I have imported 2 in the last...8 years or so.  Be aware that there's a "price point" where you can slip in without paying import duties.  But above that price level, it can get expensive.  You'd have to research that price point.  Might have changed over time.

5
Listeroid Engines / Re: Spun the rod bearing, CRANKSHAFT is FUBAR
« on: January 11, 2024, 03:09:55 AM »
Forgive me, Hugh.  What is a TRB?  It's a bit late in the evening....and nothings coming to mind.

6
Listeroid Engines / Re: Lubrication port beside the decompression lever.
« on: December 26, 2023, 12:24:06 AM »
The Lister manual calls out to lubricate the "far side", through the lubrication port (as you mention).  BUT....if you've ever torn apart a Listeroid, you'll immediately notice that the  "far side" bushing really gets no lubrication (save some vapors....).  This, for the twin design.

Thus, Butch told me to consider lubricating this "far side" by way of a lubricate by-pass.  I pull some oil from the oil pump, and by way of external lines, pipe it to a "pipe thread" I've machined into the  "far side" cam follower positioning bolt.  As far as I'm concerned, this adaptation has provided me more than 2,000 hours on my 16/2, with no issue upon that far bearing...

7
General Discussion / Re: Running A/C compressor with Listeroid CS
« on: December 17, 2023, 02:37:59 AM »
I run a 3-ton AC system off my 12/1 and 16/2, electrically.  The KEY is to be able to produce sufficient amperage, according to the LRA spec on the condenser unit.  That can easily be handled by oversizing your actual generator head.  Me, I use 20kw generator heads, even on my smaller engines.  THIS provides the momentary starting amperage to get the AC running, and after that....it's all gravy.

8
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: New toys.... JP4 Hr3
« on: November 28, 2023, 11:22:52 AM »
Owen- Are you located in the states, or UK?

9
Engines / Re: White smoke, pump timing
« on: November 25, 2023, 02:46:06 AM »

Keith- Yes.  I got a length of the proper alloy (can't remember it at the moment, but it's purposed alloy for cam-shafts).  I DID drill the cam pin holes 3-degrees advanced from the standard factory setting for the PUMPS.  All else remained as-per factory location.  Thus, I was able to get 26 degrees of pump timing advance, WITHOUT bottoming out my pumps (too long a cam-follower will over-drive the pump...ask me how I know....)

I can take a video of the filter and associated plumbing and post a YouTube link.   Give me a day or so...





"BTW- for those following my exploits.....the toilet-paper oil filter works just fine". 

I have read alot of positive things about the toilet paper filter.. Do not think I have found anyone who has used one say they have had a bad exeperience or experienced any engine wear or damage using one.  Do you have any pics of the install of the filter?  I have a 12/2 clone I may want to try one on.
You can pm the pics if you took any and willing to send..

10
Engines / White smoke, pump timing
« on: November 21, 2023, 01:02:10 PM »
Folks- I've been plagued by disproportionate white smoke coming out the exhaust of #2 cylinder of my 16hp twin.  Oily residue drips/sputters from that muffler.  No matter how I adjusted the proportioning rods to change the relative pump fuel delivery, it had NO benefit.  I thought it might have been a difference in compression between the two cylinders; rigged up a compression gauge and ran each cylinder under-power...and NO significant difference.  Thought it might have been poor valve fit.  Lapped all the valves at the 1,000 hour rebuild.  NO benefit.  Thought it might have been rings or the condition of the cylinder walls (not seating the rings).  Nope.  By re-lapping the cylinders, NO benefit.  New rings.  NO benefit. 

Then one day, I was searching the internet for other possible causes.  Pump timing.  NOW....I'd made a custom built camshaft, using the existing pined on cams.  I'd advanced both pump-timing cams by 3-degrees, getting me into the efficiency of ~ 26 degrees of pump advance BTDC.  And, the efficiency of the engine DID improve, as per the university study.  But....the white smoke....

Now, everybody knows about adjusting the length of the cam follower, so as to optimize the pump timing. Me, I'm of the opinion that THIS method ONLY STARTS or RETARDS the pump timing, but does NOT change the PEAK timing...at all.  THUS, I build a new cam. 

So, in furtherance of pump timing:  As an experiment, I placed some standard automotive body shims under the mating surface of the pump and cam cover.  1/32 of an inch.  Thus, RETARDING the START of the pump timing, but NOT affecting the location of PEAK timing.  And...sure enough.  The white smoke went away.  The oily drippage stopped.  AND, referencing the oil pressure gauge, it's no longer bouncing around all over the place.  Matter of fact, once the engine warms up, the needle barely moves off the 3-5 PSI indicator. 

This engine's got almost 2,000 hour on it.  Dare I say, I may be one of the few who use these engines as true day-in-day-out prime movers. 

BTW- for those following my exploits.....the toilet-paper oil filter works just fine. 

11
Listeroid Engines / Re: is my water (cooling)tank too high?
« on: October 22, 2023, 12:39:48 PM »
Oh, I forgot to add: when using the Indian sandwich type head gasket, you can soak it in a silicone base grout sealer or seal the exposed edges with Permetex Aviation gasket sealer to prevent coolant from wicking into the fabric(?) part of the gasket
Cheers
Hugh

Doggoneit Hugh!  And here I was, beating my head against the wall....trying to figure out HOW I still had a weeping leak from my head gasket!  Your thoughts here are much appreciated. 

12
Listeroid Engines / Re: Excavating the Pit of Doom
« on: October 12, 2023, 12:56:58 PM »
Hmmmm.....a muffler uses the same principle as a silencer.  Surface area and COOLING are the critical elements to success.  So....what if we simply used existing technology/parts to do the same? 

Have a look at this link.  I think this may work.....

https://www.infiltratorwater.com/products/chambers/

Powdermonkey

13
Listeroid Engines / Re: Excavating the Pit of Doom
« on: September 28, 2023, 03:42:49 AM »
Hello Hugh- Yep, that was me.  I'm hoping you took pictures of your pit of doom?  I'd like to make one for my twins....

14
Lister Based Generators / Poll: Oversized generator?
« on: September 24, 2023, 02:05:42 AM »
Folks:  I'm NOT asking if this is "right or wrong".  I already know the answer to THAT question.  And any engineer worth his salt will agree (though on only some level)....(sounds like "no good Scotsman to me....)

So, capacitance (actually "Inductance") within a generator head is largely forgotten in the modern vernacular of modern-day generators.  But, many of us know that LRA (locked rotor amperage) is a defining factor in getting a motor to turn, when using a generator.  It ain't the "run" amps that you need to START a device, it's the "LRA" that counts. 

Now, given the MASSIVE flywheels of a Lister-design, and as a function of them, the VAST momentary momentum (instantaneous horse-power (ahem....torque)), these engines are, compared to modern "engineering"....most amazing. 

So then, to a poll I propose:

Given (let's say) a 8 HP lister design...or perhaps a 12 hp (as in my case)....what's the LARGEST generator head anyone has used to pull massive 1 power-factor at some astounding momentary amperage (given the horsepower of the engine)? 

OBVIOUSLY, I'm not talking about using an 8 or 12 hp lister to pull a demand of 12 or 20 KW of power, on a constant-demand basis.  That would be absolutely ludicrous....all would agree.  But...let's say that you've got an air conditioner at 220V, that pulls 60 amps on locked-rotor-amperage.  Demand at that 60 amps is....1 second?  And then, after that, you're running the AC unit at 12 amps.   Nothing substantial for the 8 or 12 hp engine. 

I'm contemplating running a 20 KW ST head on my 12 hp single.  This, to overcome the LRA demands of several "intermittent" electrical motors within  a potential "emergency circuit".  The flywheel on the engine, as well the flywheel on the 20 ST head will provide substantial instantaneous power...

I'm not asking for theoretical opinions about this, from the brotherhood-of-electrical-power-generation.  I'm asking for "real-world" results from this craft, who have bothered to "tickle the dragons belly"....

15
Generators / Re: Voltage drop on only 1 120v leg, 7.5KW ST head
« on: September 22, 2023, 12:00:52 AM »
Hey CUJET- My suggestion would be to check the wiring going to, and condition of the #1 brush.  Check the condition of the copper contacts as well.  I don't know, but I'd also suspect that the AVR has split circuits, with the "controller" referencing #2.  Might switch those leads to the brushes, and see if #2 acts like the old #1, and #1 acts like the old #2.  That COULD tell you whether the problem is within the AVR and wiring to the brush, or the brush contact itself.  Right?

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