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Messages - scott p

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Things I want to Buy / Re: Wanted ListerPetterLPWS flywheel puller
« on: May 26, 2020, 05:02:49 PM »
Perhaps this will help. Kind of late but maybe.

I suspect your Lister flywheel is a taper fit. There is a workaround method to get a tapered flywheel to free up so that you can remove it.

Loosen the flywheel nut and turn it out a few turns but not too much. Lever the end play of the engine towards the flywheel end and then give the flywheel nut a good rap with a bigish hammer.  The chances are good that after a few tries using this method  the flywheel will come loose but donít over do it.

The idea is that the mass of the flywheel does not want to move when you rap the nut but the crankshaft will move.

Engines / Re: Lister lt1 fuel problem
« on: May 10, 2020, 07:03:36 PM »
Perhaps the pump delivers just enough pressure to open the injector enough to just dribble fuel. The AC pump on the other hand deliverers enough pressure to really work the injector. Admittedly that would require a fine line of pressure between the two pumps but if I am reading your post correctly that is the only idea I can come up with.

General Discussion / Re: Stirling engine revolution
« on: May 01, 2020, 05:43:48 PM »
Thanks for the input glort.

The gearbox I mention is about the size of a five gallon bucket. I would connect it backwards directly to the output shaft of the wheel to get 20 rpm or gear with a chain (again off the output shaft) one too two to get 40.

Anyway enough said about that. I read your PDF file about used veg oil. I have a couple hundred gallons of the stuff I collected years and years ago. It has been so overcooked it is almost black and nothing has settled out of it in all those years.

Would you run stuff like that in your engine? If being overcooked would that radically change the chemical makeup of the oil in a bad way ?

General Discussion / Re: Stirling engine revolution
« on: April 30, 2020, 09:04:14 PM »
This place gives all the information I tried to attach earlier.

Wallace Minto: Freon Power Wheel - Rex Research

General Discussion / Re: Stirling engine revolution
« on: April 30, 2020, 08:17:20 PM »
Well, that didn't work very well.

Everything else / Re: Diesel in sump
« on: April 30, 2020, 08:12:26 PM »
For what itís worth

My Hr2 was getting fuel in the oil. I took the valve covers and the pump cover off and started it up. The high-pressure pipes were dripping fuel from the top compression link to the injectors. When I took the compression nut off I could see that both pipes were about an eighth of an inch too tall at the injector end on both pumps.

I donít know why things didnít line up. The pumps are new aftermarket made in turkey. The pipes are original HR pipes.

The dilemma rang a bell in that I recalled facing that problem when I built the engine. At that time my response to the problem was to loosen and lift the injector to fit the fitting and then tighten it down again.

Didnít work, today I tried bending the pipe a bit to get it to fit. That was counter productive, couldnít get it to bend where needed.

Finally, I again lifted the injectors, applied the pipes and tightened the injectors. I tightened the lower pipe to pump connection but left the top connecter finger tight.

I then split out a hardwood punch a few inches long. I put the punch on the pipe where it cleared the compression nut and gave it a good rap with a hammer. A sequence of a couple of raps and then look appeared finally to bring the pipes into line with the injectors. I tightened them up and started the engine to see and saw that the leaks had stopped.

General Discussion / Re: Stirling engine revolution
« on: April 30, 2020, 08:04:33 PM »
We will see if this works. I resaved a win.doc to text only.

General Discussion / Re: Stirling engine revolution
« on: April 30, 2020, 07:55:04 PM »
So it looks like they did build a Stirling engine large enough to be installed in a car. Upside it was more efficient than its gasoline-powered counterpart. But it was not very responsive when throttled. The price of oil was so low and since the impact of pollution was not regarded the engine was not considered to be practical.  Perhaps it is time to take another look.

It seems the stirling is practical at smaller applications.

Concerning the Wally wheel

Unfortunately I didnít see the myth busterís episode concerning the Minto wheel. I did though read the Minto wheel article put out by the Mother Earth magazine.

Bottom line, the wheel turns and it produces lots of torque. I donít know what those back yard myth busters were doing but the Mother earth people put a lot of time and money into their wheel. It turned and it produced plenty of torque at a very low rpm. The mother people stated, I believe, their wheel was only good for one rpm in five minutes. It would be pretty hard to get anything useful out of that.

Wally Minto though, in his book, laid out the theoretical groundwork for developing a twenty-foot diameter wheel and concluded that it would turn about one rpm. Rpm is based on several different factors and is variable to a degree.

In reading his book it was obvious he put a lot of research and time into building his wheels. Other than running his wheel through an automotive rear end or transmission to get higher rpm he didnít say much about going beyond that. He related his wheel to slow speed high torque applications such as pumping water or grinding grain.

As I said before I donít know what the myth busters were doing or what the mother people were expecting.

If the ultimate goal was to generate a high-speed application from a shaft that is turning at one to five rpm they may have been approaching the problem from the wrong direction.

I missed an opportunity to purchase 15-volt wind generator that turned at 300 rpm. I have also seen a web page that demonstrated how to build permanent magnet wind generators. With their methods you can throw as many poles as you want into your generator. Four poles 1800 rpm, eight poles 900 rpm, 16 poles 450 rpm.

The heat required too vaporize a given amount of low boiling liquid such as propane or a refrigerant is not that great. You only need enough to pressurize the tank and force the remaining liquid up to the other container. Wally has a lot to say about designing a wheel.

I am posting the information I have.

If I were to undertake the construction of a wheel the first thing would be to connect a gearbox that could be run backwards. I have a 20 to one box that could be geared to give 40 rpm. I think that might be enough to run a slow speed generator of the required voltage to charge a battery bank. The higher the battery voltage the less amperage required.

Also inclosing the wheel in a sealed well-insulated building and burying a length of pipe in the ground to earth cool the wheel atmosphere. Perhaps an absorbent type of refrigerator could be used to drop cold air into the pipe to create a draft into the structure. Hopefully the draft would be enough to flush the heating portion of the system out side before it could affect the top of the wheel. Perhaps the excess heat could be channeled and vented and perhaps a cool draft would cool it down somwhat.
That hypothetical train of thought is as far as I am willing to go.

Everything else / Re: Diesel in sump
« on: April 27, 2020, 03:22:05 AM »
Here is something that might help

General Discussion / Re: Stirling engine revolution
« on: April 26, 2020, 06:58:51 PM »
Thanks oldgoat, will have a look later.

Wally mintoís wonder wheel would have be considered a heat engine. I suppose a large diameter wheel might prove practical. With todayís bearings, friction would minimal. Canít get much simpler with only one moving part. Perhaps the directed expansion of a gas flame could be used to help push the wheel along as it heated the container. Throw in some electronics to be used for timing purposes. Who knows might be able to push the thing up to say five Rpm. Torque would your only friend.

General Discussion / Re: Stirling engine revolution
« on: April 26, 2020, 06:52:48 AM »
Strawhat, you have my attention. I will look around to see what is out there concerning the modern stirling. Do you have any references that would make the search more productive?

A theoretical efficiency over 65% is one thing but what would it take for a back woods off gridder working in his shop to achieve that kind of efficiency ?

Thanks for stimulating my imagination.

Generators / Re: A hypothetical generator application
« on: February 04, 2020, 07:10:40 AM »
Well darned if I didnít find the problem with my hydraulic system. I had a flow control valve in the system I used as a switch to shut off the saw in case I had to work around the saw for some reason. I took it out and now the system does not hunt/oscillate like before.

I hated to see it go on account there have been many occasions that called for quick shut off.

I will be doing some research on a better way of having an emergency shut down with out running over to shut down the prime mover, which is quite some distant away. What I be looking for is another type of valve that will do the same thing but with out causing the hunting effect.

Generators / Re: A hypothetical generator application
« on: January 25, 2020, 08:27:41 AM »
By the way thanks all for the input.

Generators / Re: A hypothetical generator application
« on: January 25, 2020, 05:17:49 AM »
Glorks cautious approach

Glorks cautious approach to this hypothetical proposition is well taken. It could easily backfire into a smoking Extravaganza.

     The diodes I have in mind have a back-flow of 1600 volts but I wouldnít trust even that. Fuses (not breakers at this time) too protect the components.
     This application is a sawmill powered by a diesel. Since it is only under a load about half the time because I am  messing around getting ready for the next cut I idle it down. The hydraulic system therefore idles at 300 PSI and is variable under load depending on the log and condition of the saw and can go as high as 1500 PSI. Much beyond that and the relief valve opens.
  The numbers are based on the 30 HP DC motor running under full load. Crude calculations indicate the sawmill needs about twenty HP max, I empathize crude but probably close. I based that on a formula of hp/hydraulic pressure. So realistically the DC motor might never reach full load though I would like to have a good safety margin.
That link is a nice easy to understand explanation of what an accumulator is and does. Basically a hydraulic flywheel. Looks like a properly designed system would be better than a mechanical flywheel. Unfortunately this simple hydraulic system is about the limit of my knowledge concerning hydraulics. What to expect beyond that I donít have a clue.
A couple things I have considered is a flywheel mounted on the saw shaft to carry the hydraulic motor through that initial sudden load when the saw hits the log but it would have to tuned to sync with the system.   
I thought about rigging up say a five HP electric motor with an electric clutch that would be connected through belts to the saw shaft. As I pull up the diesel rpm the clutch activates and away I go. That might work.   
I am much more comfortable with electricity. I thought about the two generators (or twenty 12 volt batteries) long before I decided to go hydraulic but the concept seemed a bit too out side the box compared to a simple hydraulic system.

If I were rich I would most certainly go battery.

Not sure what you mean by (allowing it to sync and freewheel with the mains when it is out of use.) EdDee.

A generator connected to the bus can be brought up to just the bus voltage but no more and it will float. That is it will not add any current to the bus until the governor is tweaked a little like EdDee said.

Would the big engine running as a float be more efficient than running it at a idle?

I can get around 8 HR of sawing for around four gallons of fuel give or take, havenít seriously checked that. I just remember looking at the amount of lumber sawed and the fuel used and being impressed.

Taking this to a serious level canít ignore what has been posted. Forget idling, forget two engines, much more practical rig up the larger engine and go from there at a constant 1800 RPM. If the big engine canít do it then add the smaller one.

Generators / Re: A hypothetical generator application
« on: January 20, 2020, 07:28:44 PM »

Yes it is an unusual proposition but doable if you donít mind the inefficiency involved. Needs more research to be sure, fuses before the diodes and after to protect the units.

I have all the components required including high power diodes. It would be nice to have a stand-alone system where all electrics involved were run by the two engines.

The noisy engines could be off somewhere and boxed in. I do think trying to get the two governors to work together would likely be a problem. That would require a single governor probably electronic to bring both machines together.

The primary reason I would even consider a system like that is because my present system is not working out. I elected to use hydraulics to power the saw, which works fine except for a persistent tendency to hunt or oscillate when sawing. It can get quite violent, affecting even the prime mover. So I am forced to take evasive measures to keep the hunting down toned down, which is a pain in the butt and takes the fun out of it.

From what I have read since hydraulic fluid is non compressible any change in velocity or direction or reduction sends a shock wave of some form through the system. A friend who is a career navy veteran told me a hydraulic system practically needs to be set in concrete to keep it from jumping around. That plus I am using a flexible coupling to connect the hydraulic motor to the saw shaft and another one off the prime mover to the pump.

He indicated a large flywheel might solve the problem. Any way live and learn as they say.

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