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Messages - Jamesengland

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1
General Discussion / Re: Wondering if anyone can help
« on: May 06, 2018, 09:13:09 PM »
Great, you have now solidly confirmed Stef's diagnosis of the engine having been reassembled incorrectly, with the cam gear off a tooth. Now you must remove the camshaft to move the cam gear a tooth or two in the right direction on the crank gear.

I've never heard a single mention of a Lister D here on this forum and am clueless on them myself, but maybe someone can help you with how to tackle that job.  if not just figure out how to get that camshaft lose.  Marking the teeth with marker or paint so you can check your work is a good idea.
it was a good guess but not correct, Iím afraid. But every little helps, as they say and everything is worth investigating. I think maybe Iím on the wrong forum though, if youíve never heard of a Lister D. It was the ubiquitous, much-used agricultural engine of the Ďforties and Ďfifties, certainly here in the U.K. maybe not popular elsewhere?

2
General Discussion / Re: Wondering if anyone can help
« on: May 06, 2018, 09:08:38 PM »
Ps the magneto is a Lucas RS1, by the way. Apparently, an after market replacement (the Wipac or Wico A) was produced because the Lucas was prone to failure.

3
General Discussion / Re: Wondering if anyone can help
« on: May 06, 2018, 09:06:00 PM »
A little update. I worked up a good sweat cranking the non-running engine this afternoon. It would not start, or die or give any indication whatsoever of life. The magneto was producing a spark on the bench..a nice fat blue spark. And also when the magneto was on the engine and plug grounded against the cylinder head. But the engine would not fire even though the engine actually ran when I bought it. So.....I swapped the magneto from the second (working) engine which I just bought. The engine fired IMMEDIATELY on the first crank and ran thereafter without a problem.

So.....Iíve learned some good things here which might be of interest to anyone else with this type of Lister engine..the Lister D. Firstly, a working magneto can stop functioning correctly very quickly and give every indication that it is OK by producing a spark on the bench. But itís actually not working properly because it wonít spark under compression. Secondly, the canon of wisdom in the books, magazines and internet can be totally incorrect, leading to confusion and much hair-pulling. Quit honestly, Iím amazed that supposedly knowledgeable sources, actually in print, can get it so wrong!

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General Discussion / Re: Wondering if anyone can help
« on: May 06, 2018, 05:06:46 PM »


I've never heard a single mention of a Lister D here on this forum and am clueless on them myself, but maybe someone can help you with how to tackle that job.  if not just figure out how to get that camshaft lose.  Marking the teeth with marker or paint so you can check your work is a good idea.
Itís very common here.they made 250,000 of them

5
General Discussion / Re: Wondering if anyone can help
« on: May 06, 2018, 09:08:24 AM »
For future reference for anyone else with this type of engine, the valves in this engine CANNOT be adjusted at all, other than to be 180 degrees out (by having the cam lobe in the preceding picture pointing down instead of up). That is the only Ďadjustmentí that is possible (ie getting it 180 degrees out). After that, no further adjustment whatsoever can be made. Therefore, talk of the timing being ďone tooth outĒ as is mentioned even in the literature about this engine, is actually incorrect.

Stationary Engine Magazine on the Lister D restoration (book sold on eBay...a compilation of a serialised article in the magazine) is similarly inaccurate. There is a paragraph which says that the exhaust valve starts to open at 12 degrees before TDC. This is absolutely incorrect. Were it to open before TDC it would blast fuel out of the carb mouth. In fact, it opens approx 12 degrees AFTER TDC on the induction stroke. That is, it starts Ďsuckingí when the piston is on its way down the barrel, not still on its way up. This magazine also states that the valve timing can be ďone tooth outĒ which is complete nonsense. Even if the entire cam assembly were stripped into its component parts, it still cannot be reassembled incorrectly as the cogs and the shafts they locate on have semicircular indentations which match up and are secured with a round pin...so no adjustment possible there either

I bought another Lister D yesterday and travelled to Leicestershire in England to meet a lovely elderly man who has about 20 engines of various types, all restored by him. He used these engines on farms is an expert on the. He immediately said that the valve timing, whilst adjustable on many engines, is NOT adjustable on the Lister D (other than getting it 180 degrees out). He suggested that the magazine (a classic from years ago) had simply confused valve timing with magneto timing.

So, having bottomed that out and compared the two engines (which are identical in terms of valve timing), Iím still no further in making it work. I suspect itís the magneto which produces a spark in the bench but not in the cylinder...so Iím going to rig up an ignition coil and battery to see it that will make the engine fire...if so, Iíll then see if I can find a replacement magneto....

6
General Discussion / Re: Wondering if anyone can help
« on: May 04, 2018, 10:41:21 PM »
And the exhaust is shifted too!

7
General Discussion / Re: Wondering if anyone can help
« on: May 04, 2018, 10:40:39 PM »
You are correct. There is a reduction gear. But still no way of adjusting timing

8
General Discussion / Re: Wondering if anyone can help
« on: May 04, 2018, 05:32:22 PM »
Yep...that gear turns the crank via the handle. But thatís all it does. It just turns the crankshaft. Itís the crankshaft itself that operates the cam via the square peg locating into the fork that turns the cam. To me, it looks as if the valve timing on this engine cannot actually be changed at all. It appears to be set permanently....if the cam lobe is pointing up and the piston is at TDC, thatís it.

9
General Discussion / Re: Wondering if anyone can help
« on: May 04, 2018, 08:36:15 AM »
Yes...the toothed cog is just the cranking assembly that the cranking handle turns

10
General Discussion / Re: Wondering if anyone can help
« on: May 04, 2018, 07:48:07 AM »
Yes, the book mentioned being a tooth out. But, from what I can see, there are no teeth involved...... the square peg on the crankshaft engages with the forked drive of the cam and thatís it. No teeth or gears mesh in order to drive the cams. From what Iíve read, the lobe of the cam should be facing up, between the two cam followers, the piston should be at TDC and thatís it. No teeth, no cogs and no adjustment seems to be possible???

11
General Discussion / Re: Wondering if anyone can help
« on: May 04, 2018, 06:43:07 AM »
Thanks for that. Yep, rotating the correct way! The Ďsuckí stage begins when the valve starts to open at about 10 degrees AFTER TDC. Next TDC is the top of the compression stroke and both valves are closed When the piston reaches TDC

I looked at the timing gear yesterday and it seems to me as if itís not actually adjustable. I put the piston to TDC. Then put the lobe of the cam equally between the feet of the cam followers, lobe pointing up. Then engaged the forked arm with the square peg on the crankshaft. The inlet valve STILL starts to open at 10 degrees after TDC! I just donít see how the valv timing can be adjusted.....???

12
General Discussion / Wondering if anyone can help
« on: May 03, 2018, 06:20:59 PM »
Hello all. Iíve discovered the wonderful world of stationary engines recently and have a Petter A1 and a Lister D petrol engines. Iím having a hell of a time getting the Lister to run. I noticed today that the valve timing seems to be incorrect..thatís if a book I have is correct. The inlet valve opened at approx 12 degrees after TDC. The book says that the inlet valve should open at 12 degrees before TDC and the exhaust valve should open 44 degrees before BDC.

Is this correct, does anyone know please? Iíve set the crank to TDC and got the cam of the push rod assembly pointing upwards between the two feet of the cam followers....all done correctly...but the inlet valve opens at 12 degrees AFTER TDC.

Thanks for any help

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