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Messages - DirtMerchant

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Changfa Engines / Re: Why have they fell out of favor??
« on: December 04, 2018, 02:53:19 PM »

I have a Changlian zs1130 30hp (video here : )

 and a Yanmar TF70 7hp that I would part with....or trade for a Listeroid

 I can be reached at dan at

I'd be happy to help with your autostart.  My Listeroid 6/1 has remote start via a Picaxe controller, software is the Picaxe free basic.  Easy to modify for your needs.  I intended to do autostart, but since I only use the generator-battery charge feature about twice a winter (mostly just to make sure it's working), it seemed not worth the effort. 

Three important things needed for autostart:
Starter motor/drive
Exhaust valve lifter/decompression for starting if needed.  (Also a good feature for emergency shutdown.)
Rack Closer

Thanks but i already have all of the parts required, my 6/1 has electric start now, I have a GTR-17 controller, the required relays, gauges and sensors, as well as a solenoid rack control. Its just a matter of taking the time to put it all together.


Nice troubleshooting, dirtmmerchant. Seems Bob G called this one right.

Yup Bob had it right, I re-programmed the inverter and set the breaker setting to 15amps and opened up the tolerance on the cycles and voltage, now the inverter charges at 65amps while running off the Listeroid, alas my CFL bulbs flicker when its running, thinking the cycle too low under load (55hz) I'll need to play with the governor when I have a bit more time with it and see if I can find a cycle it can hold without flickering the lights.

Once all of that is done and working properly I will move on to the real project of the inverter calling the listeroid to auto start when the batteries get too low.


 That is actually an older pic of the AVR and I have since changed it to 120vac,  I did try putting a load on the generator and the same issue occurred, the only difference was that the inverter stayed charging a tiny bit longer before it kicked back to inverting.

 So further testing ensued, I brought out the Harbor Freight 3500 and tried it, it worked for a few minutes but was heavily loaded until the circuit breaker on it kicked out. I reset the circuit breaker on the generator and tried again, then looked at the inverter screen and found the inverter was charging 13.5vdc @ 105amps  and powering the shop lights at roughly 22amps , apparently the load on the 120 side was over 20amps as it kept tripping the circuit breaker. After noticing this seems to be a load issue,  I returned to the powerline and realized the Kill-aWatt meter is only rated to 15amps and I was pulling in excess of 20amps through it, certainly not helping.  Disconnected the kill-awatt meter and tried again, this increased the time of the cutout but still not working properly. These tests showed that the issue was not entirely due to my Powerline's output as the Harbor Freight generator was having issues too. 

After all of this I finally read the manual on the inverter today, as it turns out there are a couple important settings that can create this issue, first as Mobile-Bob mentioned, you can set the width of tolerance on the incoming voltage & frequency, I had not done this so it is probably set too tight for the generator. Second important setting is the breaker size, pretty sure I have it set for 30amps,  which would be a setting for a 3000watt+ generator, according to the manual the charger will adjust its pull on the generator based on this breaker setting.

All of my gear is located at my up north property so I will bring the manual next weekend and try again but this time changing the settings so I don't pull so much power and widen the AC tolerance and see if it will behave.


Typically the ST's have no AVR, just excitation by the Harmonic winding which is somewhat self regulating.
Does your ST-7.5 have an AVR? 

Here is a photo of the AVR it came with already wired and mounted.

The inverter may not be impressed with the varying frequency, the varying voltage or the spikes on the waveform, or the "harmonic hump".

If you are using the stock harmonic, it may work if you switch to an AVR off of the mains. That would eliminate the harmonic hump, and keep the voltage more stable.  Frequency will still vary due to low speed power stroke.

You could first try a 40-60uF motor run capacitor across the line output and hope the problem was the spikes and ratcheting of the waveform.

Good luck!

From what I have heard about the stock AVR, I should probably order a new one regardless, if just to have it on the shelf.

I wonder if a 100w bulb, as a load on the ST head, will help .    It may be you have to tweak the RPM to get 60.0 before it will sync, but thats being real picky.   

I'll have to try that tomorrow, I only had a kill-a-watt meter on it and the inverter plugged, I will try it with a few different loads and see if that helps it.

Same generator or both different engine and generator?


They are both completely different generators.


I have Prosine 2.0 inverter that has a 110vac circuit that when energized will cause the inverter to stop inverting and let the electricity flow through it and it will start charging the batteries. This works very well when I power this circuit with my crappy harbor freight 3500watt generator. But when I do this with the listeroid  it just flickers, tries to charge and then stops the charging and goes back to inverting....

The listeroid is wired for 110, is producing 125vac at 59hz I am wondering if it is too much voltage or if the power is just too "dirty" ?

Any help would be appreciated !


 Some of you might recognize the photos in this listing and assume it is me selling this Metro 16/1,  it is not my listing and I have contacted the seller to remove my images immediately from the listing.

My ST 7.5 also came without the 2 extra terminals.  Those terminals were connected to additional turns on the main windings to provide 220V at 50 HZ - at the 1500 RPM needed for 50HZ, the generator doesn't produce enough voltage, so extra turns were provided.  In the US market, no one needs 50HZ, so they saved money by not including them.

Between the two center terminals there should be 2 links stacked together (it may look like one link at first).  Remove the two links and put one to each of the two outer terminals, and you'll have rewired the head for parallel operation, or 120V only.  That should eliminate the hum from the unbalanced load created by only using one side of the windings, but leaves you without 240V.  There are ways of digging into the internals and re-wiring it for 240V that won't hum, but it's not a quick easy mod.

The idiot light and switch don't do much - mine was wired to the 120V output (I think), not the harmonic winding.

You can either replace the doghouse or wait until it falls apart and then replace it; when you do, it's not too hard to create a receptacle on the generator side with all four wires and two different plugs to match with it - one that puts the windings in series for 240V and one that puts them in parallel for 120V only.  Don't change it while the generator is running!

If you leave it wired for 240V, normally the center terminals (where the links currently are) are used as the neutral, or white wire.  Electricity doesn't care what color the wire is, but following the standard will be helpful in the long run.

Thanks that is helpful information (not the changing the doghouse when its running part, if I was that stupid I would deserve being removed from the gene pool :) )

Ya I know the white normally goes to neutral, was in a hurry and just had it wired to a single outlet to put a load on it...then used a suicide cable to back feed the shop to put a real load on it :)

Lister Based Generators / Re: AC or DC?
« on: June 30, 2013, 02:04:47 PM »

 I don't believe I have anything short of the air compressor that is greater than 0.5 HP, the well pump is a 1/2 hp 120vac and have even run my mig welder from the inverter without issue. I am considering jumping up to a 24v system with a 5000 watt inverter though just to have more overhead.

The off grid location is just a weekend place, solar recharges the batteries during the week from the drainage over the weekend, so far it has worked really well, but next winter would really define if I could get by with what I currently have.


 The growling seems intermittent though and doesn't seem to coincide with flickering or changing that normal when loading only one leg?

Listeroid Engines / Re: Listeroid Base / Frame
« on: June 30, 2013, 01:55:48 PM »
"Listerflicker" is a well known problem.  The voltage variation is due to the slowing of the engine during the compression stroke, and acceleration during the power stroke.  An AVR fed off the mains will help with this, but not completely solve it, especially for 60 watt or less incandescent bulbs.  (Higher wattage bulbs have heavier elements that stay hot and can "ride through" the voltage changes better.) The flicker is worse for the larger heads (ST5 and ST7) with an AVR, since the larger inductance of the rotor field windings adds time lag to rapid changes in excitation.  SOM or heavy flywheels help reduce Listerflicker, as much as an AVR on an ST-3, and therefore even more so with the ST-5 and ST-7.

 Better quality CFL or electronic ballast fluorescent lights will regulate the voltage to the lamps so you won't see any Listerflicker.

It's best to plan on using inverter power for ALL lighting, even in your shop, and save the Listeroid/ST power for motors and shop tools.

I am starting to rethink the entire setup,  I have inverter power (3000watts pure sine wave) running from four 6v L16 batteries for 860ah @12v, I am thinking maybe I should scrub the ST plan and go to a good 12vdc alternator and just charge the batteries instead.

 The inverter is currently wired into the shop, house and well pump, and I can currently run anything I need to run from that inverter without a problem, but I had planned on using 120vac from the ST through the built in charger on the inverter to support the batteries on cloudy days or periods of high loads and have the ability to run all of the loads from the ST and shut down the inverter if needed or if there was an issue.

Going to an 12vdc alternator would resolve the flicker issue and the potential issues with any sensitive electronics, guess I could keep the ST inline and wired up so if everything else crapped out I could throw a couple switches to disconnect the inverters and run off of the ST in a pinch.

Lister Based Generators / AC or DC?
« on: June 30, 2013, 11:19:38 AM »

 I have another posting on this forum detailing my ST 7.5 it has me wondering....My project is off grid and currently I have solar and some scrubber batteries along with a Prosine 2000watt inverter. I also have but do not have connected, a 3000 sine wave inverter (chinese).

I have built up a Powerline 6/1 with an ST 7.5 head, it has the usual light flicker and growls, does not appear very well built and power from it is probably not very clean. Now I am starting to wonder if going with a DC generator to recharge the batteries and just use the inverters for power is a smarter move. Weighing the pros and cons, it would seem DC to the batteries and using the inverters would be much smoother and cleaner power versus the ST that is dirty power with flickering that can't be good for any motor or appliance.

So then the question becomes where to find a DC alternator that can tolerate continuous duty at high amperage ? I am thinking up around 300amps ?


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