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Messages - glort

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Listeroid Engines / Re: EPA Regulations
« on: Today at 01:31:56 AM »
Let me clarify.  Solar is replacing generators.  Especially big heavy units that put out less than 5 KW.  I believe it's called a disrupted market.

I think the real clarification should be that solar may be replacing the USE of generators but not generators themselves.
How many people would have a purely solar setup WITHOUT a generator?  All the sites I have seen that cater to the off grid market and sell setups with panels ALL have a generator included in the setup as surely as they have batteries.
I doubt generator sales are down one bit. They may not be used like they were, but they have not been replaced or done away with.

One cannot practically or economically store a weeks worth of power in batteries but you sure can do it in a drum of fuel with a generator.
The economics becomes even worse if you only have to cover a week or 3 a year of bad weather. Having a huge battery bank for very occasional need is far less practical than having a genny and a drum of fuel sitting round.

What I have seen replaced with solar is engines and windmills for pumping water.  Even in places like India, Solar pumps are taking over well and truly. Diesel engines, windmills and animal power are definitely being replaced with solar pumping. The Gubermint there is giving development loans to help promote it. The benefit is that they can also use some of the power in the home for TV and Radio, lighting and most significantly of all, Refrigeration.

Here in Oz and other places, the Iconic Southern Cross windmills are fast disappearing from the landscape.  A complete new windmill can easily cost $30K. A solar pump can be $2-3K.
In most places I would surmise there would be more dependable sun than wind. As these pumps can run at part speed as well, there will pretty much always be some pumping, except probably when it's raining and not needed anyway.

Listeroid Engines / Re: EPA Regulations
« on: January 26, 2020, 02:20:55 PM »
Any tips on where to get panels cheap?

Australian dumpsters, by the sounds of it!  :laugh:

As Ironic as your well meaning sarcasm is Ade, You are dead right!
The last ones I got were in fact stacked by/ in dumpsters.
I have discovered a local solar mob have moved much closer to me than where they were and they are just throwing out these panels which I can only assume are end lots or something, not enough to do a complete install being the majority of systems here are 6.6 Kw or above.

There is a stack, and I mean a stack, of shattered panels sitting there as well.  For an off grid system that was running them singularly ( as they are around 45V Pmax) they would probably be fine.  I have had a couple of shattered panels on my garage roof powering a pair of car radiator fans in the window for ventilation and the things still scream on bright days.  I put one of these large ones on a car fan over my tomatoes to scare the birds away and the thing was screaming so loud it scared the neighbour.  Put a resistor on it and it blew that to kingdom come as well.  Put a smaller  panel up but I'm going to look at the larger panel and see if I can tap off the diodes individulat which should give a lot closer to  the 12V I want.

They seem to output pretty well, I just wouldn't  like to put shattered panels in an array kicking out several hundred volts in case of fractures in the bus bars or water ingress causing problems but they may be fine for all I know. That said, also been thinking of them as a roofing material for a shed.  Bit of silicone between them and they should still be quite water tight and save on the expense of buying Colourbond.  Even old corrugated iron is Valuable here now as trendy Decorative panelling in homes and businesses.

I just did a detour on the way home from a 4 hour drive from my fathers place and there are still a bunch of 405w panels there from the other ones I picked up a few days back so I'll go get them tomorrow.  These are great big things over 6ft 6" being taller than me so I can only get so many in the ute. Should be able to get the rest tomorrow. I think they will pose more of a challenge getting them on the roof.
I bought a linear actuator the other day to make a 3 Point hitch for the tractor and I was thinking I could make a Lift  for getting the panels up to the roof. Other thing would be to Modify my engine crane with electric lift, extended arm and counterweight.

Previously I have been Buying panels from Gumtree mainly. They are also advertised on fleabay here but they want stupid prices there and there is no way to bargain with the sellers.
People almost always ask stupid prices on dumbtree too but after a month of no takers and with some skilled bargaining, they can be had for a song off gumtree and facewaste market site. I often target the people asking the highest prices on those places because I know they will have got NO interest at all and my offers are the best they have had.  Some people will stick to their laughable pricing and advertise for months, others whom really do want to sell are MUCH more accommodating.  The ones I love best are the ones that tell me to shove my offer up my fundamental orifice and then when I get back to them a month later, sometimes with a lower offer still,  the only response is how soon can I come get them.

 I have even seen a definite increase in the number of ads where people are giving them away.  By definite Increase I mean I saw none at all even 6 Months ago, now I see 1-2 a month. Just missed out on about 50 assorted panels  a couple of weeks back because I was at Dads again then too.  Seeing I'll be back yet again in a couple of weeks, I might take a load of panels up there and see if I can sell them. Much harder to come by in the country and I'm really starting  ( well, already have to be precise, ) got way too many of the things now. Starting to look ridiculous stacked up against the shed and must be putting some real side force on it. Not going back to my mental incapacity with hoarding stuff like I did before.

 I picked up a bunch of good used 210W panels the other week from the dumpster. Covered in lichen but that comes off easy enough and I'll have to replace some plugs on them but I keep a good supply of those anyway.
I promised a good amount to Bob to help with his rebuilding but haven't worked out how many he wants and how to get them to him as yet.

The hard to get bits are the inverters. Panels last decades, the early inverters were lucky to last 5 years and here thanks to the wonderfully beneficial ( to me) laws, If an inverter goes belly up you can't replace it.
Well you can, but only with the same inverter.... which being 5+ years old of course are long obsolete and out of production so you have to install an entire new system. This is where pretty much all my panels have come from bar the last lots.

Wondering how many more panels I'll be able to get from the solar places Dumpster before winter.  Bloody treasure trove that Bin.  LOADS of tek screws they throw out, brand new DC switches. loads of rail ( which will be my new greenhouse/ Carport Framework, ) Useful end of roll lengths of solar cable, Boxes of clamps and stainless screws and fittings and breakers by the box full. Not sure why they throw out new breakers and switches, maybe they come in kits and they prefer other brands? I am using them and haven't had any problems. 

Still can't get over throwing out NEW panels but as they only seem to be small numbers, can only assume they are leftovers from Jobs. The ones I have got from what I can see are still current model and available from the suppliers so that seems a bit at odds with why they wouldn't buy more and use them.

Not going to argue.  I have well and truly enough to run 2 different array Strings on a 5Kw in inverter and over clock it plenty. I can put 8Kw per phase on the upgraded junction I put round the back so that is enough if I can overclock the inverters so they output near full power in winter.  In summer I'll just turn some of the arrays off or the whole inverter for a few days then back on to offset what I have used for a day which is about all it needs even now.

The north roof is perfect winter pitch and angle so I think I'll hold off on putting any more on the west roof as I'm stupidly over powered now in summer anyway and put these new ones on the north roof and see how I go over winter. I haven't touched the east roof bat as that is entirely visible from the street. I have no intentions of putting anything there.
 I can roll the winter bill over into spring and catch up anyway so really no problem.

Still going to set up the oil burning heater though as I have pretty much all the parts for it now. Even if I use that just to warm the house during the day and run the AC at night, I think that will enable me to break even on the winter bill  quite easily.

Listeroid Engines / Re: EPA Regulations
« on: January 26, 2020, 03:03:44 AM »
SOLAR vs All The Time and Trouble
Running Costs

Solar is far form being without running costs if one is talking about an off grid/ standalone system.

Batteries,  inverters and chargers all have limited lives which must be amortised.
Members here have calculated battery costs over useful life and come up with monthly costs.
The initial setup cost of a solar system is also a number of times higher than the setup cost for a generator.

Fuel costs for a genny are often offset substantially by the use of wsste oils.

I love solar, I just picked up a bunch of 405 w panels ( didnt even know they made them that big and hope to get more tomorrow) BUT, like anything, they have their limitations and proclivities.

I have never heard of an offgrid solar setup that did not have a backup genny but loads of gennys without solar.

For most, I think the ideal setup is a combination. Large solar array, modest charger inverter,  small battery bank, and a very healthy genny that can carry all loads with ease, including things like power tools and welders.

Solar is still going ahead quickly. I bought a heap of 250w panels 6 months ago so i could standardise and upgrade all my smaller wattage panels.
In the last 3 weeks I have picked up nearly 7 kw of  360 and 405w panels, all brand new, all for free. Seem like the 250w panels are soon going to be as obselete as the first 175s i bought  used about 4 years ago.

I have room for the new panels i was saving but as these are all new and compliant i think ill put them up and just replace the others as I go.
Probably going to be a narrow window between the weather being cool enough to get on the roof to put them up and the winter fall off when they are most needed.

My idea is to have a good solar setup in place if i ever want to go off grid and a complementary gen setup to go with it.

Listeroid Engines / Re: EPA Regulations
« on: January 25, 2020, 06:15:09 AM »

I think you are spot on regarding pricing. I have always thought listers were overpriced in the US particularly with the range of options available.
I also think listers are over valued performance and longevity wise. No doubt they may have been a benchmark 50 years ago but now, all their qualities i can think of are outdone by other engines. When we talk about  new engines being roids, they they have a LOT of shortcomings that need to be corrected before the things are even run!

From what i have read here in multiple accounts, there TBO hours aren't that great either.
I have seen a lot of things like this where the ledgend far excedes real world performance  and the products suitably over priced.

No doubt the things have a certain charm we all love but as straight up workhorses, I think there are cheaper, easier to get and better performers.

General Discussion / Re: Car engine ignition conversion
« on: January 25, 2020, 05:14:37 AM »

My thoughts wete that with such a large engine for the power required, it should be possible to have tjem running fairly slow but i guess that depends on how slow.
I have seen charts for industrial diesels that specify power output at certain rpm but not relative to car engines.

I believe on injecter and boosted engines, lower rpm is more economical. Charles lindberg was responsible for discovering how to DOUBLE the range of wwii aircraft.  By running high boost and low rpm fuel economy was doubled which enabled allied aircraft  in the pacific to be able to strike places far further than the enemy could anticipate and was a big factor in the overthrow of the japs.

Injected engines also seem to do better at low rpm. Injection is also very helpful to torque.  A CV carb is about the best in that dept. because it keeps the gas speed up over the jets.
I think  something around 1500 to 2000 rpm would be plenty of speed for the desired load. In a vehicle, the engine can be idling at under 1000rpm and moving the car in a carpark, driving the power steering, the alt and the AC. Not hard to imagine that being 20 hp all up. Carb and basic ignition will knock that around a bit but still i think relatively low rpm will be adequate.

Even though lower revs gives best economy, an engine doing 4000 rpm is still mainly going to be influenced by load. Doesent take much to heep an unladen engine at speed, its the load it has to work against thats the main influence and the efficency.

Don't  mention WRX,s. Seems 90% of people that own them here are wankers.
Turbo Foresters, same engine, similar performance, totally different mentality of the majority of owners.... except the young kids that want to lower and modify them.

No trouble to sell turbo engines, kids are always blowing them up.

I see there are a good number of affordable lpg carbs available. That would add another aspect to the project.

General Discussion / Re: Car engine ignition conversion
« on: January 25, 2020, 04:20:30 AM »
Some 4 cylinder Volvo engines used a distributor mounted on the camshaft end. The timing could be advanced or retarded by rotating the distributor.

Pretty much ALL  pre computer / electronic engines had a distributor and rotating it was the way you set the timing.  Even the early electronic ignitions had a dizzy  but replaced the points and condensor.  I did a number of conversions with kits that you put a slotted disk and an optical pickup in the cap to replace the points and condensor. They worked very well giving a noticable performance boost and were no maintence.

I take it you havent had much to do with petrol engines?
Either that or you are a lot younger than me !  Everything had a dizzy when I  was young.  :0)


If its just a glow plug and not a proper air heater element it would be basically useless.
I have never found these engines hatd to start even on straight veg oil .  I think the heater would be well  more gimmick than function.


Going to say, i never saw one of these engines with a glow plug before but looking at the pics, its just an air heater setup.

Was that how they came from the factory or was that a diy add on?
It looks like they are just a normal glow plug rather than a proper air preheat element.

Listeroid Engines / Re: DIY Short block
« on: January 24, 2020, 02:34:23 AM »

Wasn't the original ideas to have a flat pack for shipping economy?
One would want to compare the cost and benifits of importing a block against having one made locally in limited numbers.

Things I want to Buy / Re: 6-1 parts
« on: January 23, 2020, 10:47:53 AM »
You might want to check you lube oil for fuel dilution, 

Is there a way to check without sending a sample and $50 to a lab ?

Yeah, change it for $20 worth of new oil. You cant go wrong even if it just had a change. A flush will do it good.

I would buy a bottle of naptha and put an amount of that in and run the engineba while with no load. Naptha is the active ingredient and base for ALL fuel and oil cleaners /  additives.

Did you ever check the compression? My roid has so much its very difficult to turn through compression on the flywheels.

General Discussion / Re: Car engine ignition conversion
« on: January 23, 2020, 10:37:19 AM »
Everything electric ignition, Brian Miller's page a wealth of information.


Thanks very much for the link. Much appreciated. 
I think that has given me the soloution already, the Gm HEI controller.
Just have to modify the oem tone wheel to 4 points and should be right. I think it will give advance as well. Can get them here for $26 so definately within budget.

Looked up the engine management links and some others and as i feared, going to be way too much money for this project. I would like to have a play with tuning on a computer but more than i want to spend on this exercise.
It did give me an idea though, there is a place not far from me that builds these things, I might send them a message and see if they have any old development boards or units that are partially inoperative like boost or launch control is buggered they would sell very cheap.

In any case it seems like the ignition is not a difficult problem.
Failing the computer, I'll go the next best thing to injection with an SU type flatslide carby.  I have a 40mm Mikuni up the back off my Harley  i replaced years ago and a bunch of jets for the thing as well. Im real comfortable with these things and find them very easy to tune. Put a lot of them (smaller ones) on different engines and have a feel for which way to go with them. I'd bet the suby engine would be pretty close to the Harley jetting, probably a size or 2 down.

Would also be interesting to see how the engine went with a smaller carb like a 28mm. Well within flowing the air fuel for the power I'd want and would keep the vac and gas speed up through the carb as well.

General Discussion / Re: Car engine ignition conversion
« on: January 23, 2020, 01:56:57 AM »

With the bliss of ignorance Ade, the problems you had sound like a lot could be put down to govenor issues.
That said, my second thought is rotational mass that would give reactive power.
The suby engines are not heavy but i spose all that matters is the moving parts not the block. Many times i have moved these things by putting a sling on them and sticking a bit of timber through and lifting them easily with someone else on the other end.

On the 3rd hand, there are bv a million little petrol gennys out there that have good load control and they dont weigh a lot so it may well be more on the govenor and geating the engine to run in a decent spot on the torque curve.

I think being a multi cylinder engine would help giving 2 power pulses per revolution.
There are electronic govenors now that seem to do well from what i have read and are very affordable. I was thinking of one for the kubota engine which does not have one so would not go to waste playing with this setup.

Seems a lot of engine just get 20 hp out of even with a carb and fixed ignition. If there is a Basic aftermarket  computer available, that would be great.
In any case , this would be find for driving an IMAG which was grid connected and driving a constant load. I wonder if there is a reasonable way to use these things for battery charging?  May be better going with a big neece in the first place than an imag.

With the fueling, i was thinking of running the spark ignition and using the petrol to try and get the oil going. All the injectors could fire  at once, early injection was like that with the fuel just sitting behind the valve.  For the output i want, would be fine just to fire a single injector down the inlet single point style.  On these engines each injector is delivering a lot more than that anyway.

Cant skim these heads much, got one back from the head guy the other day where the cutter clipped the valve and that was just to get the head flat  rather than try and get the compression up.

Listeroid Engines / Re: EPA Regulations
« on: January 22, 2020, 10:56:07 PM »
Again, people right here on this forum will sell you a new rebuilt engine done right but from what i read, they cant find any takers?

Get out of here with that logic Glort! How can we get upset and be angry at others when you say stuff like that?

I know, its just the unsociable type i am.  :(
Did you see where I mentioned other alternative engines like Kubotas?
I hope not. Such blasphemy on a lister forum!  I think i even mentioned solar here once but the powers that be must have been very busy at the time and it slipped through to the keeper.   :laugh:

I have always been envious of the choices and cheap prices of engines in the US.
Even more than engines, with gen heads. Virtually impossible to find here. Myself and other members have not been able to find any you can buy new even ordered let alone off the shelf.

Listeroid Engines / Re: EPA Regulations
« on: January 22, 2020, 10:47:51 PM »
that because the US/UK's "per capita"

Yeah, the lefty climate whingers cannot bear to say anything without spin doctoring it and skewing the statistics to makd them say what they want to fit their agendas.
They know that a huge percentage of Chinese are poor village dwelling farmers that emit next go nothing and the billions of them offset the vast polloution the country causes. Got to skew the facts so as to be able to brain wash the rest of the world with their green cult BS.

They know damn well they would be arrested at best and shot as the most likely outcome if they carried on with  their crap there which is why they  only do it in the west.  Try gluing yourself to a ,ain road there like they do here and the police there would also come and remove you.... with a truck and a fire hose for the mess left behind.

We get these loons here all the time. Why they remove them when they went to so much trouble i dont know. Let them stage ther protests for a week. Out in the hot sun, the rain and storms, fouling ther own pants and sitting in it. They tell us hete every time they have a right to protest and although i might not like the way they do it, i think they are right and they should be allowed to do it for a week and no one touch them. Leave them right where they are to get their message across.
I'll bet the nappy rash alone would deter them from trying it again in a hurry and would probably make a few of there green idiot  friends think twice as well.

"Oh yeah, I read it in the Guardian of course - the UK's official hand-wringing liberal-lefty rag... "

Here its called the ABC, our national gubbermint overfunded broadcaster but the commercials all give them a good amount of competition in the virtue signalling dept.  The only  one that tells it like it is is called sky news which i believe is the opposite to the broadcaster you have there of the same name.

I rarely look at the news but i did recently with the bushfires.
I had to stop though. I got so sick of reading about fktard green washed politicians blaming it on climate whinge and the gubbermint for not doing enough, i had to stop reading it before i snapped and took to these morons with a lump of 4x2.

The BS and outright lies they tellis unbelievable and in the face of the loss and devastation, the insult and offensiveness of this point scoring is truly obscene.

God help anyone stupid enough to say anything like this to my face. I have already told the wife I wont be able to hold back and literally made sure she had my solicitor mates numbers in her phone.

Listeroid Engines / Re: EPA Regulations
« on: January 22, 2020, 10:13:34 PM »

"If everyone in the US was messing about with an old Lister[oid], then yes - you'd have a fairly major pollution problem."

Yeah, with the amount of people living in apartments like in NY, I imagine the exhaust would get a bit much in these shoeboxes and the buildings.  :laugh:

"10,000 of the things in the hands of amateurs isn't worth a fart in space."

The stupidity of banning these engines when there are so many other things causing far more emissions is moronic.
Anyone thinking banning ghese things is achieving anything at all should google diesel tractor pulling and burnout competitions. Both of which happen in the US many times every single weekend.

"I'm sure that, if there was ever a civil servant anywhere on the planet with more than 1 1/2 brain cells to rub together, [s ]he would come to the same conclusion and allow a limited number of annual imports, e.g. on a "not for resale" basis."

Yes but thats IF they had 1.5 braincells and we know that is an expectation of fantasy in the extreme. They could also mandaye they only be run on renewable fuels as well but banning makes it look like they are achiving so much more to appease the like minded bedwetters.

Thing that occours to me is, if you were  allowed to bring these things in tomorrow, how many people even here are going to rush out and buy one?
I doubt youd be able to shift more than a couple of container loads of the things and that would be if they were lister quality ready to run rather than the rebuild and repair quality of the indian crap.

Again, people right here on this forum will sell you a new rebuilt engine done right but from what i read, they cant find any takers?

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