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Messages - carbon-rod

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1
Listeroid Engines / Finally got around to balancing the beast
« on: October 16, 2012, 02:22:30 PM »
I posted up a while ago about taming the beast and I have finally had the opportunity to work on it, the old thread is here http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=6409.msg73551#msg73551

Ok so this RNR I built myself a gib key puller and I removed the flywheels from my engine so I could balance them. They were stuck on really good so I had to make up a jig to hold a Toyota jack which pulled the wheel off the shaft.

Here is the gib key puller I made, I welded two bolts onto the tube but I had to run the tap and die over the threads as they got quite tight from welding, I thought I would just give it a go with just the two on there and it worked quite well so I probably will never get around to welding on the third bolt :)



This is the bracket I built to hold the jack in place, pretty simple just some angle line on one side and a small piece of pipe to sit on the shaft welded on the other side, the jack is then placed on the end and a wire rope sling is made up. I tell you this wheel was stuck on tight, I tell you that jack would probably have preferred jacking up the hilux instead of the flywheel!




Once I got the wheels off I followed these steps.

found the wheel with the heaviest offset weight (found by hanging the bucket from the string), I added weights in order to make the keyway point directly down
I then used the bucket of weights method again to find the new offset weight for this wheel, I weighed the weights with a kitchen scale.
I then got the other wheel and used the bucket method to weigh the offset weight, I then calculated the amount of weight required in order to make it the same as the first wheel
The second wheel didn't sit with the key directly down so I applied the weight (which I got from subtracting wheel 1 - wheel 2) slightly to the higher side in order to make it point down.
I then weighed the offset weight of wheel 2 to make sure it was still the same offset weight as wheel 1

phew once that was all done they were both put back on with their new gib keys ( see my other post about the gib keys http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=6547.0)

The offset weight of the wheels was then around 1400 grams which is a lot higher than 67% which is apparently the magical figure, so I then added weight to the opposite side of the flywheels in order to bring it back to a more balanced state.

I did all my balancing on a motorbike wheel balancing stand, this worked great, I didn't have the correct size tube but even using this smaller piece it worked just as well, applying only a few grams on the wheel caused it to rotate so it was adequate for what I needed.




The way I did the weights was to cut strips of lead and put them in heat shrink, it makes for a very compact and easy to work with weight although I wish I had a different colour.



The engine is running a lot smoother and quieter now, it still needs a small amount more weight I think but I can experiment with that later, next thing to fix is the governor, I think I am going to build my own electronic governor so will keep people posted.

Unfortunately I don't have any before footage of the engine bouncing around but here is a quick video of it running with a small heater, not sure about how much power is being pulled by the heater, the muffler is still a work in progress. You can see the weights spinning around too.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2JS4E-JVBo[/youtube]

I close the shed just to see how quiet the engine would be.

Cheers

Murray

2
Listeroid Engines / Re: Loud knocking fixed!
« on: October 16, 2012, 01:47:42 PM »
Dieselgman,

I have a couple of photos of the key, they didn't come out so well though, I will make up a little drawing which will help illustrate things.

So the photo below is my first attempt at building up the edge of the key, I used silver solder and filed it down, it's hard to build it up enough as the solder tends to pool and it's not the most durable metal either so I decided to weld it the second time.



My second attempt was to lay a bead using the mig welder and file in a step. Again it's hard to see the step but it is there, man it is difficult to get it precise! I really need to buy a milling machine! I could have milled 10 keys in the time it took to modify one, oh well my time is free correct?



I really like the idea of not having to shim the keyway because it provides a more permanent solution, I also found that the key in the shaft was slightly larger than the key so I fixed that issue as well, now the key is nice and tight in there as well.


3
Listeroid Engines / Loud knocking fixed!
« on: October 15, 2012, 02:55:25 PM »
So I have been working on the engine, getting it ready to run and I have had this really loud knocking noise, I thought it was diesel knock as the engine has always done this, I was kind of disappointed considering I told the Mrs I would be able to make the engine silent enough to run it in suburbia prior to buying it. So I started to do the balancing on my engine the other day and noticed there is a half mm gap between the flywheel hub key slot and the key itself, the key fits not too badly into the shaft but there was quite a bit of slop in the hub. I did some research on the net and I found that someone else had loud knocking noises I think they likened it to someone hammering on an anvil with a sledgehammer, well this was what this sounded like!

So I was going to shim the gap but you think I could find anywhere that sold thin brass sheeting for shimming? so I ended up welding a bead onto the gibkey and filing it down to the correct height to take up the play, I like this solution because you only need to do it once and don't need to worry about losing the shimms if the key is removed. I also tightened the fit into the shaft keyway as well. voila!! the noise was gone! I couldn't believe how quiet it was after doing this, such a relief, I might actually be able to get it quiet enough to run without the neighbours putting in complaints now.

I took a quick before and after video, its hard to distinguish the difference in noise when recording on a mobile phone so if you compare the different in sound from when I have the decomp lever enabled and disable you will notice the sound difference, the knocking only occurred when in normal running, not when the decomp was enabled. The second video does a similar comparison, this time there is minimal difference between decomp and not.

Any way, I hope this helps someone else out there having a similar issue, the gib key now has a 0.5mm step to take up the play, it looks a little rough but works sweet.

Before

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgWt2sxhUTA[/youtube]

After

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v85aRSc2bvA[/youtube]

4
Listeroid Engines / Re: How I remove the flywheels off my 6/1 listeroid
« on: October 15, 2012, 07:58:17 AM »
Hey guys thanks for the words of advice... It makes sense really, I have put them back on without any anti sieze, so hopefully they go ok, I had to shim up the gap in the flywheel itself as it was loose in the hub but tight in the keyway of the crank shaft. I also used 38ac's method to put the cam shaft back in, very simple and effective!

Yeh the hilux jack does well! the wheel was an extremely tight fit initially, it was a bit corroded inside there, the wheels are a good fit going back on but not too tight which is good.


5
Listeroid Engines / Re: Timing your camshaft the easy way
« on: October 14, 2012, 02:05:18 PM »
Thanks very much for posting that video, I pulled my cam shaft out for the first time today so I shall be using your video to get it back together again!

6
Listeroid Engines / How I remove the flywheels off my 6/1 listeroid
« on: October 14, 2012, 01:36:20 PM »
Hey guys,

So today I finally got around to making my gib key puller and removing the flywheels on my listeroid. I read about using the jacking method on a forum (probably this one) although I can't remember who mentioned it previously so I am unable to give credit to them, either way I thought I would make a quick demo video on how I did it, hopefully someone else may find it useful.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hzoolvRok8[/youtube]

cheers,

Murray.

7
Listeroid Engines / Re: What the heck?
« on: October 14, 2012, 12:16:56 PM »
That's quite interesting that the 8/1 would have such different valve clearances, I thought they were both pretty similar engines except the 8/1 ran quicker hence the extra couple of horses... very interesting indeed!

8
Listeroid Engines / Re: Resonance frequency when on castor wheels
« on: June 21, 2012, 12:05:19 AM »
hey guys thanks for the great advice! I am actually looking forward to balancing and taming the beast now where as before I was dreading it not knowing where to start. I am flying back to site today :( so I wont be able to work on my engine until I get back, once I getback I might experiment quickly with the chalk method (which is the mrX method right?) as I still need to build a puller to get the flywheels off which I think ill make out of some old bbq plates or something.

I had a look at my flywheelslast night and the moulded weight into the flywheel is inline with the keyway as well as a spoke, it seems some initial balancing has been done already as there are several holes drilled out of the cast weight. now it is important to have the same offset weight on each flywheel is that correct? ok well this will definitely keep me busy on my next RnR.

Thanks guys!

9
Listeroid Engines / Re: Resonance frequency when on castor wheels
« on: June 19, 2012, 06:03:32 AM »
Hey guys thanks for the advice!

mmmm I knew I had to balance it sooner or later I was just hoping that it would be later... well I shall knock up a radiator bracket today so I Can at least run the engine for longer than a couple of minutes then I will look into doing some balancing. but first I need to make a gib key puller and fly wheel puller, do you guys normally need to pull the fly wheels off or they come off rather easily?

I will also have a look for the static calibration write up that you speak of, I have heard of the chalking method and that seemed like a pretty good idea but as you mentioned its more complicated than it seems, but at least it would give a good starting point for balancing. I might start with the chalk method first and see how I go with that, maybe a combination of the two would work nicely.

man those videos are fine examples of beautifully balanced engines :) I hope that I can tame mine to be like that! The frame is certainly strong and heavy enough to resist some vibration but I would rather solve the issue rather than trying to hide it.

I will post up the balancing progress if I make any over the next couple of days otherwise I wont' get another chance until I get back from working away next thursday.

Thanks for your input!

10
Listeroid Engines / Resonance frequency when on castor wheels
« on: June 18, 2012, 12:03:57 PM »
Hey guys,

A while back I posted up on the forum about help to get my lister engine to run for the first time and now it's time to ask you wise guys another question as I am having dramas again...

I have recently started to build the frame for my engine now that I have got my shed all set up nicely, I welded the frame together using some hefty 10mm I-beam (with 5mm webbing) and put some heavy duty castor wheels on so I can roll it around.

The frame is pretty well square and I was surprised that none of the wheels were floating initially, I shimmed one wheel up 2 mm and it seems pretty good right now.
 
To the main rectangular frame I have bolted another 2 I-beams on top to mount the engine and alternator to (alternator hasn't come yet) I welded a 3mm plate inside the main frame and have put some rubber matting on top of that then bolted the I-beams down to the main frame, this sandwiches the rubber matting and prevents the metal plate from making a shit load of noise which is what happened before I put the rubber matting down.

The problem I am having is that once the engine gets up to speed it starts bouncing the entire frame, which I calculated weighs just over 190kg. I think the issue is primarily with the castor wheels, I started it up briefly without the rubber matting however it was getting a bit late at night so I only ran it for a couple of minutes if that and didn't notice any bouncing so it could be a combination of the rubber matting as well as the castor wheels.

The two beams the engine is bolted to are bolted tightly against the main frame, this causes the rubber to be compressed as the rubber is about 15-20mm thick and the gap under the beam to the plate is about 10mm.

The engine is reasonably balanced I think compared to some stories I have read about listeroids, when I had it sitting on my hydraulic trolley it would bounce but was relatively well behaved, I am picking up a radiator for it tonight so at least I Can attempt to balance it however it is too dangerous to attempt until I get this oscillation issue sorted as it really gets bouncing. I might take a video of it tomorrow for you guys.

here is a picture of the engine on the frame


this is a pic of the type of castor wheels that I am using.


Any way, let me know if you guys have had any similar issues or have any ideas :)

Thanks!

11
Listeroid Engines / Re: Adam vs listeroid .. lister wins
« on: March 25, 2012, 02:51:46 AM »
hahaha I dare not do it to the female, heard the saying don't bite the hand that feeds you? :) plus the lister would probably be gone after that :(

12
Listeroid Engines / Adam vs listeroid .. lister wins
« on: March 24, 2012, 09:39:19 AM »
hey guys, my mate came around so I thought I would show him my new toy, I made sure last time I shut it down that I used the decomp to turn it off rather than the fuel rack so that it was nicely charged with diesel ready to go... he took the bait :)

[youtube]c8s8EwRnbnM[/youtube]

13
Listeroid Engines / Re: Need help starting listeroid for first time
« on: March 03, 2012, 08:46:06 AM »
ahh interesting I like the valve method, guess I will have to shoot down and grab myself a dial indicator... They are such a handy tool.

Once I get back home I will have a look at the intake timing as well as find the correct TDC and mark it, and check to see how far I was off, what are the side effects of too advanced timing?

Also is 0.05 just a trivial number that's chosen? So basically get it to the point where it's not moving then rock the flywheel one way 0.05 mark then the other way from not moving to 0.05 and the center will be my TDC, easy peasy!

As for the bubbles, I am 99% sure there would be no residual air in that injector as I had primed and re-primed so many times as well as rocking that damm flywheel back and forwards for a very long time and still there was bubbles coming out! Put it this way, I went through 2 tanks of fuel before I even started the damm engine!! haha

14
Listeroid Engines / Re: Need help starting listeroid for first time
« on: March 02, 2012, 11:07:13 PM »
I have no idea about the bubbles in the fuel system, even with the multiple creaking injector it still seems to fire fine so maybe once it is under pressure they aren't forming as much?

I am unable to check whether both valves are open at TDC at the moment as I am catching a plane out of the city and will be back next Thursday. I found TDC by removing the head and physically feeling the cylinder and what point it feels at TDC this method probably isn't the most accurate I guess I should have looked at the crankshaft inside the engine maybe? It should be fairly close but I am amazed to find that only a few degrees more advanced is the difference between 3 days of cranking and a first crank start.. so TDC will definitely be something I check when I return. What is the recommended method of determining TDC? I noticed that the cylinder stops travelling for a period of time while the crank rocks over to the other side so there is maybe a couple of degrees I am out just in that fact.

What are the repercussions of running a diesel too far advanced? Diesel knock is increased isn't it? is there a possibility of overheating or damaging it in someway?

I haven't checked whether both valves are open at TDC but I will do that when I am back. Looking at the timing chart I saw floating around the valves opening and closing are pretty much within spec.

 ;D ;D ;D

 

15
Listeroid Engines / Re: Need help starting listeroid for first time
« on: March 02, 2012, 12:59:27 PM »
Hey guys here is the first start video!

excuse the fat gut just been swimming :)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUmRDgNnu-6q449m72Xa8YFA&feature=player_detailpage&v=LnJk6JITp70[/youtube]


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