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Listeroid Engines / One year anniversary of MT-II
« on: December 02, 2007, 02:58:59 PM »
My Jkson-PS kit 6-1 Listeroid I named Magic Throb- II passed it's first anniversary yesterday at four thousand, one hundred and twenty hours on the meter and just under 7Mw of power (did I say that right?) with no failures of any kind in the engine and only one leaky gasket and a rocker bushing to be replaced. 

The head has been off once to look at the carbon build up of which there was very little.

 It's still running the same 14 gallons of 50/50 anti-freeze and water with five quarts of anti-freeze and one gallon of water being added over the year.

I've used less than a quart of 80-90W gear oil for the rocker shaft lubrication and a couple of dollops of anti-sieze here and there.  There has been absolutely no engine oil added nor has there been a need to.

It's bolted to a steel frame embedded in more than a yard of concrete with 3/4" bolts.  They've never needed re-torquing and there is no vibration of any kind in the floor or mount.

Its' running now and just barely blew out the birthday candle with a poof of pleasant exhaust.    ;D

A big thank you to all who made it possible......and FUN!!

Listeroid Engines / UPdate: Jkson-Power Solutions Kit
« on: May 05, 2007, 04:35:35 PM »
  Last night, May 4,'07, I shut down the Jkson-PS Kit engine  "Magic Throb II" at 2000 hours.  It's not yet been apart and aside from one rocker bushing that was eaten as a result of my missadjustment, has suffered no stoppages, no problems, and shows signs of continued work far into  the future.  This is it's sixth month of daily operations.

Properly set-up and mounted, the engine is EXACTLY what made the original CS Listers so popular....trouble-free and dependable.

It started this morning on the usual first compression stroke and is running now........and into the future.

General Discussion / Member in need---
« on: December 02, 2006, 03:52:55 PM »
To all ----

One of 'us' has suffered a tragedy and needs some help.


Ken ran a 16-1  GM-90 on WVO for his power and is a dedicated do it yourselfer that's in need of some support.

I urge all to do what you can.   Addresses at the bottom--

Blaze destroys home
By EVE BYRON - IR Staff Writer - 12/02/06
George Lane IR Staff Photographer - Firefighters with the Montana City Volunteer Fire Department hose down the last remaining hot spots. For the second time in his life, Ken Gardner’s home was destroyed by fire.

Gardner lost his first home during the Warm Springs Creek fire in 1988. On Friday, the house he shares with his wife, Jodi, and four children on Strawberry Lookout Road, south of Montana City, burned to the ground.

All that is left are a few blackened, standing walls from a nearby shed, the home’s rock foundation, and a swing set in the back yard. Tires smoldered on a small tractor, as firefighters pulled apart the rubble to make sure all the hot spots were hit with water. One of Gardner’s dogs suffered minor burns, and the family’s two cats died.

Montana City Volunteer Fire Chief Rick Abraham said they were paged out about 9 a.m., and the structures were “fully involved” when they arrived at the rural home. No one was home at the time.

“We received a cell phone call reporting a structure fire,” Abraham said. “But it took us a long time to get here, because of the weather conditions and it was a long way from the fire station.”

The road to the home, past the Saddle Mountain subdivision, was snowpacked and icy, with temperatures hovering in the upper 20s.

Officials are investigating the cause of the fire.

“Everyone who knows Ken said he was extremely careful with fire, and the cause is undetermined at this time,” said Karen Semple, public information officer for the Montana City VFD. “This was a log house that they had recently put an addition on.”

She added that Gardner was recently laid off when the Montana Tunnels mine was temporarily closed, and he had no insurance on his home. The family, including two girls, age 16 and 13, and two boys, age 2 ½ and 5 months, are temporarily staying at a Montana City hotel.

The Red Cross is assisting the family.

Semple said the Montana City VFD is putting together a benefit for the Gardners. Donations can be sent to the Ken and Jodi Gardner Benefit Fund, 9 Bankers Lane, Montana City, MT 59634. Donations also are being accepted at the Boulder Bank.

Montana City firefighters were aided by volunteers from the Clancy, Eastgate and Lewis and Clark County fire departments, with about 25 people responding to the fire call.

Info box: The Montana City VFD is putting together a benefit for the Gardners. Donations can be sent to the Ken and Jodi Gardner Benefit Fund, 9 Bankers Lane, Montana City, MT 59634. Donations also are being accepted at the Boulder Bank.

Original Lister Cs Engines / Lister CD on ebayuk--
« on: October 02, 2006, 10:52:13 PM »

The same guy has some other stationary engines AND everything but the head of another CD.

CD=  7 HP@ 1000 rpm, enclosed valve train and pressurized oil delivery.

Original Lister Cs Engines / Need original 6-1 head info---
« on: September 13, 2006, 10:14:04 PM »
The lucky owners of original CS engines could do us a favor with pictures and measurements of the cylinder liner protrusion above the block....if any ??  Any information from reliable sources what that protrusion should be?  Head gasket thickness dimensions?

It seems odd some have terrible headgasket problems and some don't.  When comparing FuKing 6-1 protrusion with new Jkson's  HALF protrusion, it gives me wonderment.

Surprisingly accurate depth measurements can be made with a dial or vernier caliper by laying a straigt piece of stock across the liner and measuring from the top of the straight edge to the block and subtracting the thickness of the 'support' for the vernier.
 I use a piece of Starrett O-1 tool steel stock and gradually use pieces of it for parts until I have to buy another stick for a straight edge.    :P

Listeroid Engines / KIT ENGINE, First impressions--
« on: August 22, 2006, 03:52:55 AM »
I was planning on waiting until it was all apart and on the bench, but things keep happening that prevents it and this is just too good to keep quiet.

I have one of the new Power Solutions-JKson 6-1 shortblocks in the shop.

My first Indian engine was the FuKing 6-1.  They *said* it was crude and I wasn't disapointed.

Next came several Ashwameh  mini-Petters.  MUCH better!  I've checked them all out that I've run and tappets rotated and bearings were clean....

Now this!!

This company has, with many special instructions and specifications I'm sure, done a really terrific job of building engine parts.  I'm IMPRESSED!!  It's fully as good as my '75 Onan for fit and finish and density and 'fineness' of the castings.  There's even indications on the side of the crank that somebody thought they saw a flaw and ground down to check on it. 
<thank you!>

The casting of the sump area is REALLY nice!  The area under the big end of the rod is Vee shaped and angled some to follow the swing of the crank.  There's a BIG dropped area at the front with the oil pump pickup.  It's just an amazing thing to see.

The insides are snow white and hard as epoxy ALL over the insides.

I peeked down the bore....crosshatch and a  POLISHED PISTON??

Even the outside is great.  The green is RIGHT! 

Even the gaskets are good!

More later, but for now, put me down as a BEliver that the Indians CAN get it right.

I'll start a new photo album and I'm sure it'll be linked soon.

THIS is more like IT!!

Petteroids / RUNAWAY MP Pump!!
« on: August 22, 2006, 02:18:34 AM »
Here's the story as I know it and then I'll speculate.....

I cranked my 3.5HP Mini Petter pump today to take videos for Emerald.  I took one at about thirty seconds and several more for grins with a dark background and the exhaust plume in the sun.  No smoke after the muffler burnt off a little oil.  It was holding 32 psi and pumping water into two one inch poly pipes and then to nearly an acre of sprinklers.  No problems so I went up to the shop to break into a spanking new PS-Jkson short block for my tired ol' Listeroid, but I degress. 
  The Petter ran great for about 25 minutes...full of fuel and oil and everything ready to go all day, then I heard the tone change into 'dragster' mode.  I ran that way for about nine leaps and decided since IT was on the OTHER side of a poured concrete building full of hot water and *I* was on the safe side....I'd just stay there and try to figure out what happened once the smoke/dust/parts cleared some.   

There WAS smoke!   Black, unburned fuel smoke and puffs of white.  The RPMs finally leveled off but the smoke kept rolling.  The engine sounded rough...much like the video posted elsewhere, and popped and missed a bunch but kept right on running.  I considered going down and pushing on the throttle bar with a rake handle, but not for long.

IT took six minutes by the watch for the engine to start missing more often and finally staggered to a stop.  I'd already gathered a fire extingisher and my IR gun to see what a molten puddle of Petter actually measured.

I peeked around the corner and it was sitting there slightly smoldering around the pepper can muffler but otherwise plumb normal.  The head was a little warm at 199 but not bad.

The mystery became 'why did it quit'?  I checked the oil---down to the 'add' line.   I 'shot' every part of it with the IR gun and saw nothing out of ordinary hot except the muffler.  IT was toasty!!  The flywheel was perfectly free and it had plenty of compression, too!  I couldn't help but try to crank it back up.  No squeek from the injector.  OUT of fuel!!

It had sucked down a whole tank in 31 minutes!  NO wonder it blew a lot of smoke!

I re-filled the fuel tank and purged the line and tried it.  FIRST time it fired and off it went.  BLACK smoke, white smoke, billows of it.  I noticed the governor lever was bouncing back and forth when I shoved it over to shut it down.

The governor weights are NOT controlling the throttle bar.   I thought about that for a while.

The pumpsets are crankshaft started on the 'other' side.  The pump is mounted on the ordinary crankshaft extension.  That means the governor end of the camshaft is behind the flywheel and tough to get to.  I decided, in the interest of science and just because I'm not too bright, to get out my fancy new laser guided tachometer and find out what the engine was really doing and where was it *supposed* to run. (1500 on this one).

I cleaned of an area of the flywheel across the face and then on the back towards the throttle bar for the tape.  I wanted to be able to see the reflective tape from somewhere other than in line with the shrapnel, but I put enough on the face that I could compare readings.
  The first run I took video with one hand and controlled the throttle bar with the other, then I switched to the tachometer and re-started the engine.

WOW!!  This engine will climb to 2500 rpm so fast you don't know it's gone!  Past that the black smoke starts (along with squirts from my adrenal gland) until the valves float(?) and the popping starts with puffs of white smoke.  I pushed the 'record' button on the tach  and, after several partial shutdowns to rearrange my escape path, let it climb to 3855 rpm.!  It  *might* have gone a little higher if I'd let it try, but I'd seen (all too close) what I wanted to see and there's no use doing it just for grins.

I monkeyed with the governor bar.  It takes about six pounds of pressure by hand on the yellow knob to make it slow to 1500 rpm.  If released it immediately goes into boogety boogity mode.  The governor bar just hangs out and rattles back and forth when the engine is in full runaway.  The six pounds is the spring inside the rubber sleeve on the throttle bar.  The governor is somehow 'disconnected'.

Here's the innards of a MP governor--


I don't yet  know  HOW it can DO this!!

Comments welcome.

Engines / Listeroid concrete base--in progress
« on: August 19, 2006, 05:02:59 PM »
Sorry to start a new thread but this one is more to show the pictures.

I've posted a few at --http://community.webshots.com/photo/2895406460028237237xekcGu

That's were they start, anyhow.

The best place to mount my engine is very near the well head.  As can be seen by the pictures I ran into a LOT of problems digging a hole.   The well head end is at least eight feet thick. I broke off the overhang of the well plug and probed as far as eight feet down and found nothing but a shaft of concrete.   It's said to be 12 yards!
   I tied in re-bar in drilled holes in this plug and used a concrete binder goo to help bond the new to the old.

   As it turned out the engine base is 2700 pounds of dry weight QuickCrete and it'll take a hundred pounds of grout to finish it.
I'll let it sit for a week or more and work on the engine and fuel/cooling and muffler for a while.  I'm READY for a rest!!

General Discussion / Ruminations at mid-night--
« on: July 27, 2006, 09:03:56 AM »
I'm running on battery power and wasting time ....

I got to pondering that there may be some that don't actually *think through* of all the trouble it is to live this far from civilization.

Off grid here means nights are quiet.  I like that.  Not even the thud of the Listeroid to interfere with the hiss and bubble of the creek.   It makes me sleep good!
 .... But with no power there is no clock radio for an alarm.  How do you get up at three in the morning without an alarm?  I can't hear the little travel gizmos...too many rifle  shots near the ears.  Between scuba diving and shooting the doctor said my eardrums "....look like a rusty screen doors hanging by one hinge with the bottom panel kicked out."  I can 'set my internal clock' and wake up on the button....usually.

If it's something really important to get up for, like opening of hunting season or the Persieds meteor shower, I'll drink a beer before bed. THAT'll wake me up in a couple hours!....but what if the first beer in a year and high altitude messes that deal up?  Besides, it's more important than hunting season, it's my Mom's 90th birthday and it's time to go visiting.

It's two AM now.  An hour of sitting in the hot springs and watching the shooting stars and satellites cross the Milky Way is a good way to wait for the time to 'wake up'.  The next few nights will be muggy, buggy, bright and noisy. No Milky Way to be seen, much less three moons of Jupiter with the naked eye.

Back soon.

Listeroid Engines / Bearing analysis??
« on: July 26, 2006, 01:08:40 AM »
THis is the third bearing that's done exactly the same thing after just a few minutes of running.  Anybody know how or why these voids develop?  There's 1900 hours on this bearing.


Listeroid Engines / Listeroid cranking forces----
« on: July 23, 2006, 03:37:17 PM »
  There has been quite a bit of discussion about the 'proper' way to start the 6-1 engines, and I assume the bigger ones, too.  I tried again yesterdoy to wind my Listeroid up tight enough to be able to remove the crank handle then disengage the valve lifter to start it.  NO way!

So, I started doing some experimenting.

I always shut down by just lifting the fuel lever to cut the fuel.  I don't lift the exhaust valve until I get ready to start it again by rocking the flywheel back until I can re-engage the lifter.

 On shut-off of fuel my  engine winds down for 16 seconds, then bounces between compression strokes for 3 more.   A total of 19 seconds from fuel shut-off to full stop.  I did it four times and the results were same each time.
  I tried to count the number of compression strokes the engine turned before stopping, but it's tough.  I got 49 three differernt times, though.  That's pretty close
  I can't crank my engine through compression from a dead stop with the handle.  I can lean on the flywheel and it'll leak through after about 25 seconds, but that's a very subjective measure.

I *can* get it going fast enough to crank on the first revolution by letting the injector squeek once then removing the lifter, but its' a LOT easier to accelerate slowly and let three squeeks occur then throw the lever.

The ONLY time my engine has ever failed to fire and run on the first possible stroke was when the headgasket was blown and the cylinder would have water leakage that had to be pumped out first.  Then it'd start on the second stroke, but blow water in my ear.

I also got a new toy from ebay.  It's a photo-laser, non-contacting tachometer that works from reflecting tape on the flywheel.  Great tool, but pretty much useless after you 'shoot' every engine on the place.   My Listeroid is running at 660 RPM with a sag to 658 as the genhead is kicks in.

  Just for grins I decided to find out how SLOW it would go.  The governor gets VERY mushy and uncertain at about 400 RPM so I ran the fuel rack by hand down to a low of 245 RPM.  Talk about COOL sounding!!  Like a hit or miss engine at that speed.
  It would be great to find a large bore twin that ran at that speed and gave about 12 HP.  I'd  be very interested in that!

Comments welcome.

Listeroid Engines / Rocker shaft repair---
« on: July 20, 2006, 05:19:14 AM »

Here's a few pics of the new rocker shaft mount I finally got made.  The engine is running now and making power.

The base and block were salvaged from the boneyard from a burnt-up pile of farm implements. There wasn't a piece big enough for a one piece block like the OEM.
  The rocker shaft was turned from O-1 Drill rod and after the oiling holes and channels were cut, hardened to about 60Rc and drawn back in a gas oven 23 minutes at 425.  That's how long a DiGeorno Spice Chicken pizza takes to cook...then I left the shaft in another hour while I ate the pizza.

The rear clamp is, I think, a great improvement over the angled clamping surface of the original 'Roid.  (I'm anxious to see T19's pics of the original SOM)

THis mount is SOLID.  There is no movement between the head bolt and the end of the shaft at all.  This is working well!

Listeroid Engines / Loose Rocker Shaft---
« on: July 18, 2006, 03:31:41 PM »
 As you all know by now my FuKing engine is an educational experience....it's a lot like owning a mule.

The latest drama was caused at assembly in India.    I caught it once and thought it was corrected.  It wasn't, it was only delayed.

The block that holds the rocker arm shaft steady was bored a tad oversize and the pinch slot, on my engine, was too narrow.  That meant the shaft had movement when the engine was running.  Not MUCH movement, but I could feel it by bridging  a finger between the head bolt and the end of the rocker shaft.  After about 500 hours it had loosened to the point I had to re-cut the pinch slot to give it more 'holding power'.  The problem is that the top of the block is tapered to the rear which puts an uneven strain on the holddown nut....the whole part was miss-made, miss-fitted, and not up to the job, but it took a while to figure that out.

In the past month my engine has gradually 'de-tuned' it'self to the point of having to tweak the governor to maintain 60Hz.  This is a SURE sign the engine is losing power.  Pay attention to it.
  The exhaust side rocker was beginning to show some dirty lube and was 7 to 10 degrees warmer than the intake and the exhaust side shaft end was beginning to really wiggle.  I took it apart Sunday afternoon.

Post mortem shows the original loosness of the attaching block allowed the block to wallow out a little and the shaft to loose it's parrallel sides by a small amount of wear.  After 6,000 hours the shaft and the hole were no longer tight enough to maintain rigidity.

I'm machining a new block on a 'platform' that extends from side to side and is held down by all three headbolts and supports the new rocker shaft in the center and both ends.  It's WAY more than is needed, but it's fun to put together things (of COURSE I don't have a piece of steel big enough...it all has to be fabricated and fitted and line bored) that LOOK good, anyhow.  It'll look like a gyroscope guidance system on a dirty John Deere, but that's half the fun.

The entire saga with a bunch of pictures will be on George's site as soon as I can get it together.

In the mean time---  Check the wiggle between the outer head bolts and the end of the rocker shaft.  If there's ANY movement there, you WILL have problems with it in the future.  Be advised.    ;)

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