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Topics - Rtqii

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The reserve is not met on this... I am posting the link because it is an interesting engine... It's not an 800 BTW, it's an 801; the Ford 800 is gas, perhaps the seller is noting that it fits the more common Ford 800 tractor frame, but this engine was used in a lot of tractors.

I have checked around for parts availablity on these, usually in AG applications parts are available aftermarket when the manufacturer stops supporting them.

This looks like a nice little diesel, I wish I could find an excuse to pick it up... Or, please buy it before I invent a need.

I wish people on ebay would not use reserves, just put a "buy it now" price on the danged auction and be done with it.

I hate auctions.... It seems everything I am interesting in goes for a fair and reasonable price except the stuff I _really_ want, then there is the other guy who comes up out of nowhere and wants it just as bad or worse... I always back off when the price goes higher than I want to pay, and the other guy ends up paying more than it's worth. Maybe I am good for the economy.

General Discussion / 1978 Case 680CK Tractor Loader Backhoe
« on: September 09, 2006, 08:41:45 AM »

I probably have cursed myself... But the price is right... In fact the dealer was so anxious to throw this bucket of oil at me, he severely discounted the price. I am starting to get nervious after the fact.

Case is known for strong engines, and their diesels are pretty top of the line in construction and agriculture. They don't do well at tractor pulls because the engines and frames are so damned heavy... That is what I bought, the engine and frame.

It runs, everything works fine... But several large cylinders need to be repacked, it leaks like a sieve. I need to design some hydraulic drive systems for my engine room and awhile back Guy suggested I study how the hydraulics are set up on a digger... What better way I thought, than to own one.

Besides I have to move many cubic yards of soil and rock to put a new place up.

The engine is pretty strong, 4 cylinder diesel, I have not gone thru the manual yet to see what the rated HP is... It does not smoke excessively, the guy said it does not use oil but I figure he does not really know; he's a salesman.

At least he was upfront about the hydraulics leaking and I am going to have to dry things up before I can get serious work out of this machine. Does anybody have any primers on how to repack hydraulic cylinders?  I can get seal kits cheap, and with the leaks dried up this machine can be sold for a lot more than I paid for it when I am done working it... If I can bear to part with it.

But I have never repacked a cylinder before, and this is the first hydraulic system I will have hands on experience with.

Waste Motor Oil / 90W Gear Oil
« on: September 06, 2006, 05:45:38 PM »
It's straight weight, no multi-viscosity additives... It has been used in slow speed industrial transmissions, not high speed engines. It should be cleaner, and burn cleaner, than used motor oil.

I may need to cut it with solvent, and of course it will have to be pre-heated in order to filter and inject...

But I have a steady supplier and the first pickup will be 440 gallons, plus 8 free 55 gallon drums. I figured fuel costs in getting this oil will run less than $80.


General Discussion / Diesel Truck Recommendations???
« on: September 01, 2006, 01:05:06 AM »
I just got back to a computer after a week looking at property. I bought some acreage off-grid.

The access will require a 4x4 and since I will be building I need a pulling truck that can climb steep spots in the road while pulling a load.

Anybody got any advice on what road diesel engines and rigs I should be looking at? Anything I should stay away from?

Generators / Building a high power AC/DC generator system
« on: August 18, 2006, 11:22:39 PM »

^^^ Decent site - he is engineering for gasoline engines, but offers some good info and has some parts for sale.

I will edit to add some more links for things like couplers as I come across them in today's research.

^^^ Direct drive shaft couplers in mm-to-inch sizes suitable for many smaller generator applications.

^^^ Lovejoy couplers

Listeroid Engines / Breaking in a new engine
« on: August 15, 2006, 12:37:39 AM »
I want to give some un-solicited advice to new engine owners on what to do, and what not to do, during break in.  I am going to pre-face this by saying I have not received delivery of my engine yet and I have not broken one in.... However I have blueprinted and run-in high performance engines before, and I think I have a pretty good understanding of the Listeroid quirks. My advice comes as a result of some hard won experience.

To the rest of the group here, please feel free to chime in with advice, corrections, or to point out any omissions or add opinions. I am happy to discuss my reasoning here  ;)

To start with we are going to assume that your engine has been inspected, and is in fact clean and ready to run.

1) Do not use synthetic lubricants during break-in. Synthetics are great to run in a working engine that has settled in, but you will cause yourself unending headaches if you start out with a synthetic oil.

2) Do not use a high detergent oil during break-in.

3) Do not use multi-viscosity oil during break-in. My personal recommendation for breaking in a Listeroid would be to use straight non-detergent 30W or 40W and I would lean to the 40W during my own break-in.

4) It helps if the oil is pre-warmed for the initial startup (a small immersion heater in the crankcase could be used), and do not start up a dry engine... You should pre-lube everything. Get a pump oiler, put it in a crockpot with a couple inches of water; once hot shoot a squirt of hot oil into the tops of the cylinders, cam bearings, crank bearings, etc. while slowly turning over the flywheel. Be sure to manually prime the oil pump if so equipped, and shoot some oil on all external moving parts. Make sure the fuel rack is clean of paint or gum and put a drop of hot oil on all the linkage points.

5) It does not hurt to put an ounce or two of oil in the fuel tank.

6) It does not hurt to put a couple of strong magnets in the crankcase to collect metal filings.

7) Do not start an engine without water in the engine cooling jacket. People think that they can fire up a dry engine and run it for 2-3 minutes without overheating... This is a mistake. Most of these engines have "wet" cylinders, and hot spots can form nearly instantly... 2-3 minutes can result in damage without coolant. If you wanted to be really gentle on an engine, you would pre-heat the water as well as the oil.

8) Do not run a new engine, even for a short time, without a load. Diesel engines, especially new diesel engines, have to have a load on them in order to keep the rings from chattering. The pressure created when a load is applied and the rack is open is essential for seating the rings and ensuring that they stay seated and don't scuff and vibrate in the bore. This is especially important during break-in.

9) Don't grab the rack and race the engine up or otherwise permit it to overspeed... Instead, pile a load on it and gradually work the rack open to develop power... These are not racehorses.

10) After a few hours cumulative running with varying loads applied, drop the oil while the engine is hot, open the access panel and mop out the sump, clean the magnets. You can fine filter (2-5 micron) and burn your used engine oil so don't feel bad about making frequent oil changes during break-in... These engines have virtually no filtration system and unless you have modified things with the addition of a bypass filter system for the crankcase sump you will want to remove metal, water emulsion, and any sand frequently. Let used oil settle before filtering and mixing with fuel, and toss the bottom sludge.

11) I would consider the break-in period pretty much over after 100 hours under a load, but some of these pointers can be applied every time you start your engine.

Good Luck!!!

Everything else / Hydraulic PTO for auxillaries
« on: August 08, 2006, 09:13:48 PM »
Ok... This thread may not apply to many, even most, people.  I know a lot of people are adverse to taking engine power off for anything other than their primary application (say generator) and a lot of people are running 6/1s and need every bit of HP delivered to their dedicated loads.

I am getting a bigger engine... As soon as my checks clear I am putting my money where my mouth is on a 20/2. My "dedicated" load will be an ST15kw, but I won't use 1/2 the engine output generating electricity most days. I will have excess engine capacity that I can put to work running auxillary equipment: fuel pump, water pumps, oil transfer pumps, crankcase bypass filter pump, etc.. At some point soon after the engine is set up in place I am going to want/need a low volt DC generator to charge an off-grid battery bank (saves me a charger and losses), and I will need to run a big two stage air compressor head on occasions.

Rather than generating AC electricity and running all the engine house auxillaries from electrical power and the resulting efficiency and reliablity losses, _or_ running 3-4 different belt setups to various pulleys and equipment stands (and the resulting physical danger). I am inclined to belt off and run a single hydraulic pump.

The problem is I know nothing about hydraulics.  Herein I am presenting some ideas... Simple stuff and easily implemented with relatively inexpensive off the shelf hardware... I have some questions... I would like some of you hydraulic gurus to kick out some responses and help me clarify the system I would like to see built.

It has been posted before that there are power steering pumps you can pull off junked cars that will serve to pump hydraulic oil when belted directly to the engine. If I had a full load of auxillaries I am sure a power steering pump would not have nearly enough output to run them all effectively, no way would it turn my big two-stage compressor head, or a DC generator for charging an off-grid battery bank.

The problem is I don't know enough about hyrdraulics to design a system that will. A search at places like the surplus center turn up all kinds of hydraulic pumps and motors, but what all is involved in actually setting up a hydraulic system? How would I make it flexible? I don't run my air compressor all the time for instance.

How do hydraulic pumps idle? For instance, if you are turning a pump then shut down the load... Does the pump extract energy from the engine and continue to attempt to drive the load or does it bypass... How efficient is this?

What major components are needed to set up a hydraulic system?  My air compressor head needs 5 HP between 4-6 hundred RPM (and is extremely hard to start when there is pressure in the tank)... I have not looked around to see what a decent DC generator suitable for powering a battery bank charge controller uses as far as shaft power input.

Can you run a power steering pump as a hydraulic motor and drive a hot water pump? I see lots of hydraulic equipment rated as for pumping and as a motor.


Waste Vegetable Oil / Process Filtration
« on: August 08, 2006, 12:50:57 AM »
I just spent 30 minutes at the Purolator-Facet filter homepage and I thought I would post about this process filtration system that I came across. I am not spamming or selling anything, this to me looks like the ideal system to pre-filter raw WVO and it should assist in removing a lot of water with the gunk:

Here is the page ^^^ - I was looking at the "metaledge" line of products.

^^^ Flash animation showing how the technology works

Spec sheet ^^^

I was looking specifically at the F-190 model for process filtering/transfer of hot oil from drums as a pre-filter to remove particles 25 microns and above. A replaceable 10 micron high flow cartridge filter placed downline would pick up most of the rest without excessive clogging. The oil could be filtered and transferred into the storage tank in one pass at 60+ PSI and 150+ degrees F.

If nothing else... The flash animation is kewl... I bet this filter is expensive, but from the looks of it, you would never need to replace it or purchase a new element.

The final filtration I would set up in the heated fuel line to the IP. Oil would be drawn off the top of the storage tank (where oil filtered to 10 microns would be pumped/stored). The cold oil would be transfered into a heated day tank in the engine house.

^^^ I think these toilet paper type canisters would work well in-line as the final fuel filter. With this system I doubt you would have to dewater the WVO fuel.

Engines / Grouting Question
« on: August 06, 2006, 03:10:02 AM »

When I've done this, I set the engine (base, whatever) on little wood strips - maybe 3/4 inch high.  Then you have plenty of space into which you work/pour the grout.

OK... I have seen inertia block foundations being poured, and I have seen grouted equipment mounted on the blocks... But I have never grouted equipment, nor have I seen anyone else grout equipment... And this leaves me in the dark and raises my question on this topic.

Obviously you cannot set the equipment down on the foundation block directly and grout under it. Is it my understanding then that the archor bolts are placed, the equipment is then set over the anchor bolts, and then supported by something, such as wood, the equipment is leveled, and then the grout is worked under the mounts?

That seems to be the only way to do the job correctly.

Those wood strips refered to... Are they removed at some point after the grout cures? Do you just grout over it?

Let's say I pour an isolation block and decided to mount the engine, without skid, directly to the block... Removing the skid also removes some of the flex and it seems to me it would result in a more solid mount... So I would shim up the engine base over the block using say a few strips of wood, make sure it is all square and level on the block and that the anchor bolts are all seated in the pre-cast holes in the inertia block and centered in the engine lug mounts... Then build a small form to contain the pour of grout, and work grout into the anchor bolt holes, and continue pouring until the grout comes up flush with the top edge of the engine lugs...

You just leave the wood in there then?

hotater mentioned the need for a catch pan and a drain... Since the engine will be elevated by the foundation block, I think the thing for me to do would be to form a depression in the wet grout to make a catch pan, and cast in a short drain pipe from the low end of the resulting depression to the outer edge of the block. Then paint the cured grout with epoxy to seal it against oil and fuel.

I don't think they grout wood under commerical jobs tho and just leave it behind.

Can anybody clarify this for me?

Everything else / Lindsay's Technical Books
« on: August 04, 2006, 07:34:42 PM »

This is only like the ultimate library of "how to"

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