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Topics - skeeter

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Listeroid Engines / Water/ propane injection of wvo fueled listeroids
« on: July 31, 2007, 10:21:30 PM »
Since decarbonizing my 12/2, I've been giving some thought into additional ways I could be minimizing carbon buildup, as part of a routine operating procedure. At this point, I think I'm doing about all I can to minimize buildup without doing something completely different.  I'm starting and stopping on diesel, have well heated fuel lines, and running wvo only when up to t-stat temp(195 deg. F). Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm starting to get an inkling, that running wvo, will over time, substantailly add to my maintenance effort,  if I want to maintain it at peek operating efficiency.  I'm starting to think that implementation of an on-demand propane or water injection system, might be a reasonable course to pursue, if I want to reduce the need for decarbonization, and keep the listeroid running longer near its peak efficiency, between decarbonizations. Does anyone here have experience with either of these? Have search here and elsewhere. I do find how it relates to performance, but not allot of qualitative data about controlling carbon buildup. Also, what's everyone's experience with decarbonization requirement for listeroids running on diesel or bio-diesel.

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Listeroid Engines / Injector removal
« on: June 25, 2007, 06:40:47 PM »
On my twin, when I removed the injector hold down blocks to use my valve spring compresser, I notice the injector felt loose on one of the heads. To tighten, I turned cw, but the injector supply tube ran out of clearance in the head cutout. First, Am I correct in thinking this is a pipe thread connection. Since I wanted to check injectors for carbon buildup and spray anyway. Are the removal steps as follows? 1. Remove hold down nuts and block. 2. Unscrew ccw and remove injector supply tube. 3. Unscrew injector ccw and remove. Someone, please verify, or describe correct removal procedure.  It seems apparant, but just wanted to make sure.

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Listeroid Engines / Cyllinder spacers
« on: June 15, 2007, 12:04:40 AM »
This is probably a dumb question. I'm going to be putting my engine back together and noticed a few of the cylinder spacers are torn. Does anyone bother to get stock spacer sheets, or just use the old ones as a template to cut new ones up. Is their a particular type paper to use?

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Listeroid Engines / 12/2 cooling system, round 2
« on: June 13, 2007, 07:16:45 PM »
After three months of daily runs, I  pulled the heads last night to check for carbon buildup. Since I'm burning wvo, I did expect their would be some, and their was a little more then I expected. I attribute this to having insufficient temps during earlier runs (150- 170 deg. F), but with recent changes, I quicky get temp up to 220 deg F and maintain at injector. Hopefully their will be less  carbon in the future. Today, I'll pull cylinders and pistons and have a complete look at everything else. One observation was the oil, although still black, looked very clean. I guess a bypass filter is a good thing.

Now for the title subject. The major reason why I had to stop running, is the cooling temps. Coolant started to boil in the heads during the last few runs, at which time I had to decrease load significantly. I alwayed believed the "radiator" setup I was using was undersized, and would have to be replace eventually. With the increase in ambient temps, this became obvious. Now, I'd like to do what I wanted to do in the first place, heat exchange to a large, insulated tank of water, then use the collected heat. I know from previous discussions, their are many here who believe, this just isn't worth it. My own observation indicates, that at the load I'm usually carrying, their is a considerable amount of heat that can be captured.

My plane is to thermosiphon thru a very large flat plate heat exchanger (24" x 9 1/2" x 8 1/2", 2 1/2 ports reduced to 1 1/4"). Like before, I am planning to run 1 1/4" ID hose , from the stock coolant manifolds, with a healthy raise, to the heat exchanger ports. As before, 195 deg thermostats will be installed. The upper port coolant connection will contain a tee  just before heat exchanger port, to allow for a 1/4" hose connection to a reservoir above the heat exchanger. The other ports of the heat exchanger will connect to a 80 gal, insulated hot water tank, with the tank raised so connections are above heat exchanger port, to allow for effective thermo-siphoning. To cool the water in the insulated tank, the tanks second upper port will connect to a Taco pump, then to a couple of tees, each having gate valves. One tee connection will connect to a water to air heat exchanger, mounted almost flush to the wall with a louver openning, into my work shop/ wvo bulk storage area. This will help cool down the insullated tank fluid, heat wvo bulk tank when needed, and exhaust heated air into a much larger area. A second connection will connect to insulated pex pipe that will connect to a couple of baseboard radiators iin my house. A third port, when additional cooling is required in summer, will run out to a coil of 3/4" or 1" dia pex tubing, hung underneath the ladder in the pool.

I am planning to start implementing this in a few days,  and I'm definitely hoping for a sanity check before I start. The part of this that bothers me the most, is the low volume of water that will be contained in the primary cooling loop.

All comments are welcomed.

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Straight Vegetable Oil / SVO/WVO Lister type engine modifications
« on: May 11, 2007, 06:33:05 PM »
I raised this issue in another subject, and I now believe this deserves its own thread.  As I have mentioned in other replies, I have choosing to go with a two tank wvo fuel solution. Within a couple of weeks, I be pulling the heads and cylinders to inspect for abnormal wear and carbon buildup. This is part of an overall evaluation of the use of wvo as a fuel in the lister tpe engine. The modification performed so far, concerned the need to start up and shut on a "cleaner fuel", such as diesel or bio-diesel, then switching over to a well filtered wvo. The specific changes to my engine setup, included separate fuel filters, a heated wvo filter (bowl temp regulated at 140 - 145 degress), fuel lines carrying wvo are insulated. Since my engine is a twin, the line to the second ip runs behind a metal sheild/chase to maintain elevated temp. And finally the high pressure fuals are temp regulated at 225 - 230 degrees F. No changes to timing were made. Being OCD (probably like most here) concerning the well being of my engine, I have been very tuned in on the sounds, temps, oil level and quality, starting ease with either cylinder, along with any other observation that could be made. So far, everything "appear" as it should.  I guess the reason for my post is to determine if any other mods should be added, while I have it apart anyway, or any input on what else to look for when its pulled apart, or anyone elses experience with lon term use of wvo. Any inputs are welcome.   

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Listeroid Engines / Lubrication oil
« on: April 17, 2007, 04:38:09 PM »
Forgive me for raising this subject again. I know its been talked about here time and again, as I have tried to closely follow this subject over the last year or so, and through through searches of discussions before that. I can't in my own mind, resolve what I believe is a descrepency between the desire to use non-detergent lub oil, so suspended material can settle out in the sump, and need to use oil that is diesel rated (CF-2, CF-4 etc..). Each time I get oil, I'm torn by what I read here (It makes sense in my mind anyway), and the application labeling on the products. I do know we are dealing with a dinosaur in the lister type, which the labeling probably doen't consider. I guess my real question is "what constitutes heavy duty diesel lube oil ".  Is it the quality of base oil, or the additive package contained. For my break-in oil and first change, I went with straight 30W Rotella rated for diesel. Was this a mistake, I don't know. Should I have gone for the 30w mineral without additives? I hope to get this straightened out in my own mind before my next oil change, coming up soon.

7
Listeroid Engines / 12/2 won't start
« on: January 05, 2007, 07:08:10 PM »
At the time of my last posts, I was getting ready to pour my engine room slab, and concrete block under engine mount. Since then, the slab and block have poured, engine (disasemmbled) was moved into engine room and mounted, room was insulated, wiring completed in house and engine room, and engine was reassembled.  After a couple of diversions recently, I finally got back on the project the last a couple of days, and set out to complete the last few details (heat exchanger/radiator installed (change from my earlier plan), fuel tank mounted and connected) and get this thing running. Well, this morning was it, but after alot of attempts, no go. Using Georges CD and site as a resource, I've rebled the fuel lines (a couple of times), to a point where I'm confident the problem isn't air in the fuel lines. Healthy "clanks" can be head from both injectors. Should I be hearing "Clank"?
  When trying to start-up near side cylinder, with fuel "paw" in down position, and decompressors under both intake valves, I cranked it up to a very healthy speed, while maintaining speed, I remove the near-side decompressor, and continue cranking through compression strokes. Smoke puffs out of exhaust after each compression stroke, but doesn't start. I tried the same with the other cylinder and noticed compression felt alot greater.
  This conceaned me, because when I was reassembling it, I found the head clearance on the far side (from crank) cylinder to be too high, about .095". This, I checked a couple of times using small lead split shots inline with piston pin, torquing head bolts to 170 lbs, then measuring thickness of lead with calipers. I removed two of the paper joint, which got the head clearance down to about .064", matching the other cylinder clearance. This seemed a little high, but at least both match. How does .064" sound to everyone?
  Now, if both clearances are equal, the cylinder compressions should be close. Can I measure cylinder compression directly, and if so, how? Sorry for my ignorance here.  I've owned other diesels (tractors), both never did much beyond normal maintenance stuff, and fuel line bleeding.
  I  was also thinking of pulling the heads and rechecking the spill timing.
  Another thing I tried was to heat up the room. When I was first trying to start it, the room was about 34 deg. F. engine temp measured about the same. Since then I've gotting the room up to 65 deg. F, engine now measures about 50 deg. F. Still no start.
Any suggestions would be welcomed.

8
Generators / Electrical Underwriter inspection
« on: October 23, 2006, 09:24:39 PM »
I'm moving along with getting my 12/2, 7.5kw ST genset up and running before winter. When mounting the gen head to its frame thew other night, I noticed that their was no UL or like listing mark on the label. Has anyone gotton any grief about this from their local electrical inspector.

9
Engines / 12-2 Cooling tank/ heat exchanger
« on: October 05, 2006, 08:26:29 PM »
While I'm waiting for the concrete to arrive, I'm now focusing on putting into practice, the cooling system for my engine. Over the pass few months I've been kicking around ideas and gathering some material. Most of the schemes are CHP from the start, or at the minimum, will evolve into a CHP solution. I'm in the north country so additional heat is of major interest, along with my desire to  do things efficiently, when practical. The general idea that I've been entertaining, consists of  195 deg. thermostats on each of the upper cooling ports ( this part done), who's plumbing connects to a tee. One branch of the tee connects to an  elevated expansion/burp tank whose volume is a minimum 5 % of the overall cooling system. The other end of the tee is plumbed to a coil of soft copper tubing, whose connection is near the top of a 80 gal water tank. The bottom engine cooling connection are plumbed to the other end of the copper coil, exiting out the bottom of the tank. Now for reality, over the last number of months I have not come across my ideal water tank but have acquired a couple of (40 & 50 gal I believe) electric hot water tanks. I remember reading of at least two members who have used similar tanks for cooling 6-1's.  One fairly recent post describes plumbing to the upper and lower 1" heater element ports. With this in mind, my line of reasoning is to gain access to the interior of the tank to place and connect my copper coil heat exchanger to these ports, then use the normal hot and cold water connectings to run to a hot water heat loop. My real question is what will I find when I cut open a glass line water tank. Can someone describe the glass lining. Is their a place to cut that won't effect the lining, or is it just a matter of cracking the lining and removing it.

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Everything else / The closing of a perenial hardware store.
« on: September 30, 2006, 11:22:28 PM »
Forgive me for going off topic, and I'm new on this forum, so forgive me. But I just have to vent. Like everywhere else in America, well almost, the big box stores are becoming almost the only choice (even in my somewhat rural community), unless you shop out of a catalog or the internet. The other day I heard that a local, family owned hardware store was closing. Why this matter to me was, that this store had been open for 140 years, run by the same family, a fixture, a virtual rock in our throw-away world. I remember the first time I step in there, I was amazed at the breath of products that were contained. I remembered thinking then, how does this place exist today, how does it keep such an inventory of so many diverse products, I mean some of the inventory is from generations gone by. What was amazing to me was I never had any problems finding anything in this large, somewhat cluttered store. Along with their diverse inventory, you also received immediate attention when you walked in the store. Not a peskey, salesy, know nothing type, but a subtle, quite, guide you along, by someone who knew the inventory and quickly grasped what was needed, and all along keeping a tally of your bill among others like you. No calculators here. Because this store is not in the most conveinent place, I found myself patronizing the store only when the big box stores didn't have what I needed, which did happen often, especially considering the wacky projects I sometimes get myself involved with. My lack of "loyalty" to this store was not purposeful, it wasn't even consciously known until now, until its almost gone. Today, I found myself there, there for some needed items for my listeroid project. Even though they were trying to clear the inventory at 30 to 50% off, the store clerks were just as attentive as always, going about their business as if almost nothing had change, still no calculator except at the checkout counter. My own thoughts were, in addition what I needed for my project, was "why didn't I shop here more often".

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Listeroid Engines / 12-2 Genset Mounting
« on: September 24, 2006, 05:57:06 PM »
About 6 month ago, I decided that building a CHP solution was for me. Since then I've been planning, purchasing (12-2 power solutions JK-son engine and ST head and alot of associated paraphania), and building a home for it all. Its final home is a 12' x 11' room, part of a 48' x 36' pole barn structure. Now I'm ready to start pouring concrete but before I do, I want to make sure I'm on the right track as far as the genset mounting. As of now I have a 2 1/2' x 4' x 1 1/2' deep rectangular hole dug. My plan is to take the anchor rods that came with the engine, and properly position in the dug hole for later mounting of 2 - 42"  4" box channel or 4" x 4" PT post. The plan is to pour the concrete, filling the hole and a 12" slab above the hole. When the genset is mounted it will be sitting on top of its 4' x 4" mouting, secured to  2 1/2' of concrete underneath, with the rest of the room having a 1' thk slab. So far I think I'm on the right track. Please comment. I have some 1" thick, high durometer rubber matting that I've used for horse stalls. Should I use it under the genset mounting? Should I cushing, to lessing shock and vibration? The engine home is 50' - 60' from my house, the ground that everything sits on is sand, below the 1 1/2' - 2 ft' of sandy loom top soil. I live in a rural setting, so neighbors are not a problem. Would be thankful for any comment, especially from those that have been done this path. Any lessons learned, would be appreciated. Thanks.

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Listeroid Engines / 12-2 dippers
« on: April 12, 2006, 03:16:16 PM »
Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum. Recently, I completed my research on practical ways to become less dependent on the grid. This has led me to the purchase of a 12-2 listeroid. Within 2 days of receiving it, I have it virtually completely stripped down, and am going through it piece by piece with the aid of George B's CD. I figured this is the sure way of gaining familiarity with the unit, and correct any manufacturing errors that may be present. This has led to my question concerning the diippers. The manual refers to a  scoop type part, this unit has dippers that are more similar to a flat head screwdriver tip. Looking into the crankcase through the access door, the left dipper was orientated with the broad side facing the door, The right is rotated at a 45 degree angle from the left dipper orientation, meaning the back broad face points to the center crankshaft bearing, and the front broad face points to the right of the access door. Are these orientated correctly. I look forward to any and all guidance you may offer. 
 ??? ??? ???
 

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