Puppeteer

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Topics - listard-jp2

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1
Anyone who has had any significant dealings with the venerable Lister CS diesel engine will appreciate it has number of well known and understood weaknesses, which continue to this day with the supply of Lister clone and Listeriod engine versions of the Lister CS engine.

It now transpires that the MARS Machine Tool Manufacturing Co. Pty. Ltd. of Bridge Street, Fortitude Valley, Brisbane, Australia also recognised these weaknesses.

So way back in 1942 (at the height of Lister CS diesel engine production, and possibly due to war shortages) they decided to build their own range of diesel engines to compete in the Australian market with the Lister CS diesel engine, the 5 H.P. engine they produced clearly had a striking resemblance to the single cylinder version of the Lister CS diesel engine, however coming from a company that already had a well deserved reputation for a range of well established high quality machine tools their engines were superior to the Lister CS diesel engine in a number of respects, such as larger crankshaft, counter balance weight (CBW) crankshaft, wet liner cylinder block, fully enclosed valve gear, proper engine oil dipstick, conventional lip type oil seals, the absence of a reed valve crankcase breather (possibly using a connection to the inlet port to create a crankcase vacuum as per later aircooled Lister diesel engines).

In addition the fuel injection equipment (FIE) was also made in Australia by the PYROX company, again the striking resemblance to the CAV FIE used on Lister CS engines can clearly be seen, the injector even was fitted with a feeler pin (something which CAV dispensed with in later years)

Even after nearly 70 years of continuous Lister clone and latterly Listeriod engine manufacture in India, with the exception of direct injection, wet liner cylinder block, dipstick, and CBW crankshafts. No Indian product can come close to the innovative and quality features found in the 5HP MARS diesel engine.

MARS also built a larger 8HP engine which appears to have being based upon an amalgamation of a Lister JP1 and CS engines with elements of both engine versions clearly visible in the design features, as per the smaller 5HP version it also used the same PYROX FIE, but otherwise less is known about this version of the MARS diesel engine.

Unfortunately neither of these projects were a success for the MARS machine Tool company with only 32 known examples produced of the 5HP engine, and which only 4 engines of this type are known to still exist in the hands of preservationists. Reasons for the failure of this project are unknown, hence the few MARS diesel engines that are preserved remain an interesting footnote in the history of Lister CS engine development, and the rival competitor products that sprang up to compete against the Lister CS diesel engine (in this case unsuccessfully).

http://cobahcastiron.weebly.com/mars-engines.html

http://www.nocarnofun.com/mars-5hp-diesel-engine-completely-restored-and-shows-muscles/#ixzz4kLD50PaW

Note in the background of a rather grainy picture in this link, both versions of the MARS diesel engine are displayed at a machine tool exhibition stand in the 1950's: http://www.lathes.co.uk/mars/

Edited for content, and punctuation

2
After returning from holiday where Lister CS engines and their Indian imitators almost grow on trees, this year in my ongoing search for more Lister engines and spares. I encountered what can only be described as an engine graveyard.

I took numerous photos, which I will share with you on this forum, there is however a catch. Before I upload the next photo, the previous photo must be correctly identified.

I will make a start with something that everyone will recognise:



I await your comments

3
As per the forum thread title, I would be interested to know if the Indian Listeriod engine suppliers ever made parts for, or manufactured a whole cloned version of the Lister VA engine (the air cooled version of the CS).

If so I would be interested to know if the parts would be interchangeable with genuine VA parts, and if so I would be grateful to hear of any contact details for a potential parts supplier.

As I am sure you are all aware a lot of the VA parts are specific to that engine, though some parts (such as the flywheel fan shroud, and air cooled flywheel) do bear a striking resemblance to the 2 and 3 cylinder HA, HB, and HR engines.


Thanks in anticipation of your replies.




4
Lister Market Place (things for Sale) / Lister CS 12/2 on ebay UK....
« on: August 04, 2016, 02:45:08 PM »
This has recently made an appearance on ebay UK, and it will be interesting to see if it sells.

Looks to be in reasonable condition, even has an original leak off can.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LISTER-TWIN-CS-DIESEL-ENGINE/162155520477

5
For those that follow the price of Lister CS engines and derivatives of the CS, here is an a VA that was on ebay UK recently and failed to sell:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stationary-Engine-Air-Cooled-VA-Lister-Stationary-Engine-7-5HP-RPM-850-Vintage-/222177657011


6
General Discussion / What has happened to the photo gallery ?
« on: July 06, 2016, 07:52:35 AM »
As the title says, it now appears to be just a dead link.

Can anyone advise what has happened, and more importantly what has happened to all the photos that were stored at that location.

7
Sometime in the past dieselgman opined the following:

"How much $$$ would you be willing to pony up if you could purchase a true replica (perhaps as parts) of one of these Dursleys - recast from an untouched original sample and closely monitored for top quality control?"

With the exception of the QA observation this is basically what the Indians have been trying to do for the last 60 years, i.e. sell a reverse engineered product based upon original Lister CS engine component parts.
As the Indians have well demonstrated, this process is fraught with many difficulties. Unless you have access to highly specialist measuring equipment itís very easy to miss say a 0.020Ē radius in the bottom of that piston ring groove, or a 0.4 Ra surface finish on that bearing journal, etc.
Then you have to be prepared to cut up original components for material analysis and tensile testing / Charpy impact testing etc. (I canít see anyone wanting to do that to genuine Lister CS parts)
Finally on top of all that you need to have access to raw materials (steel and cast iron) which meet the required quality standards.


Then a few days later dieselgman offered up another particularly sagacious piece of advice
I would think the 8/1 would be a good first project along these lines because it would have the widest appeal and probable demand as a genset build.  


On this observation I could not agree more, because possibly more importantly than the above, if this engine was to be reproduced (due to the high degree of parts commonality). It would then be relatively easy to then go on to recreate 6/1, 5/1, 3.5/1, and 16/2 engines, with minimal extra manufacturing effort.

Now this is where it gets potentially very interesting for all you Lister CS forum members, because I have been quietly working away under the RADAR, and after expending a lot of time, effort, and not inconsiderable money. I now have a near complete set of drawings [copied from originals] for the most recent build 01 Lister CS 8/1 engine.
After considerable work on my part, these drawings are now an electronic format (PDF) of the original drawings.
Seeing how the interest in the CS engine has grown in the last 10 years, together with the Indian sourced aftermarket spares that largely supports it. It was my intention as a retirement hobby to go into very limited production of some of the more popular parts using these drawings as the starting point, and therefore offer a substantially better quality product than the Indians could ever hope to produce, but with comparable prices to the Indian product. However a major change in my personal circumstances now makes this a remote possibility.
Hence I am looking to monetise the investment I have made to date in getting this far with this project.

8
This may be of interest to some of you:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/lister-generator-/191833655882

Bargain start price, for what is a seriously large piece of kit.

The JK6 was the largest engine that Lister ever made at the Dursley factory in terms of physical size.

9
I had been watching this item on ebay uk;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/lister-cs-startomatic-/131751357779

In spite of needing some work, the sale price was significantly less than I was expecting.

Could this be indicative of a price correction, compared to what these startomatic sets used to sell for.

10
Here is something to grab your attention, a Lister CS12-2 has recently appeared on ebay UK, it is however in need of some light restoration  ;D

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111640192691

11
Here is something for you all to drool over:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221597428416

However I would speculate that the driving flywheel has been replaced in the past. as there seems to be no Vee belt grooves cut in the rim.

12
Here is an example of a desirable Lister CS twin, unusual to still have the original radiator.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LISTER-CS-12-2-10-2-TWIN-CYLINDER-8KW-10K-V-A-PERMANENT-MAGNET-GENERATOR-PMG-/171434135233

13
General Discussion / Lister petter bought out of administation......
« on: April 21, 2014, 08:10:33 PM »
Lister Petter have narrowly avoided going bankrupt (again), after a last minute buyer has come forward, and bailled them out of administration.

http://www.gazetteseries.co.uk/news/11092437.Lister_Petter_to_go_into_administration/?ref=mr

http://www.gloucestercitizen.co.uk/Lister-Petter-leaves-Dursley-80-jobs-saved/story-20980209-detail/story.html

14
I have just found this item on ebay UK

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271133206558?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

It is either a 10-2 or 12-2 (serial number would confirm either way). For an engine that was stored outside it looks to be in very good condition, with only rusting to the exposed bright metal parts.

The observant will notice it does not have a lower water rail, instead it has separate flanges for the cooling water connections to the two cylinder blocks, it also seems to have an early style fuel filter.

After more careful scrutiny of the pictures, I believe this could be an early 10-2 engine, as it looks to have feeler pins on the injectors, it also has a 1/4 turn isolation valve on the oil pressure gauge, and finally it has an exhaust manifold. All of these features were dispensed with on the 12-2 engine. However if the inlet air silencer is still the original, it has done well to survive all these years.

I am sure this will  be of interest to forum members, though as it is a private listing, it may be wise to tread carefully.

I wont be bidding myself as I already have two 16-2 engines waiting in the restoration queue already  ;D

15
Original Lister Cs Engines / Lister FR6 on ebay uk
« on: November 23, 2012, 07:39:11 PM »
Here's something for those of you who yearn for something more sophisticated than a Lister CS: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LISTER-FR6-MARINE-ENGINE-AND-GEARBOX-60hp-/140888038033?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_Boat_Engines_EngineParts_SM&hash=item20cd94da91

Looks like it has chrome plating on some of the pipework, for extra wow factor.

Also note how similar the heat exchanger tank looks to be very much like a fuel tank on some of the later single cylinder LD, SL, and LR engines.

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