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Topics - spencer1885

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Other Fuels / vaporised oil
« on: January 31, 2011, 10:13:00 PM »
I had been talking with people on both forums about a process for addressing the problem of ash from burnt wmo. Vaporising the oil was discussed, but because some of the oil additives also vaporise as wel,l I had been discouraged to persue this idea any further.
Seeing as I can't see any way forward I am rethinking the idea of evaporating the oil.
If this process can be controlled reliably then it may have possibilities.
This idea would be divided into two parts.
Firstly a gas producer and secondly a medium sized petrol engine driving an alternator, which will also provide the power for the gas producer.
As the additives and other things in the finished product will be significantly reduced the engine should survive much longer.
I think this might make producing electricity with wmo cost effective.
As one of my wmo heaters already works on this evaporation principle it should not be too difficult to adapt.


Everything else / Heater/boiler/wmo
« on: January 31, 2011, 09:33:44 PM »
quote author=mobile_bob link=topic=5619.msg66767#msg66767 date=1296504805]
to the group:

mark my business partner burns waste motor oil to heat both the shop and his house

his house is quite large by most standards at ~6000sq/ft, the shop ~3000sq/ft

the house uses an omni waste oil boiler and the shop a lenaire waste oil air/air heater.

the omni is cleaned out every month and produces about 2 gallons of ash and carbon, after burning anywhere between 4 and 15 gallons per day

the lenaire burns a butt load of oil all winter and is cleaned out once a year, it produces approx 1/2 gallon of ash/carbon

so why the disparity? and what can we learn from it?

one possible and probable explanation might be,  the boiler sidewalls are ~120 degree's F while it is likely that the sidewalls of the air/flue gas exchanger of the lenaire is probably well over 200 degree's F

the cooler side walls of the boiler will allow a much higher deposition of carbon
and some ash, the deposits of carbon would then be further heated by the continuous flames converting more and more of the carbon to ash.

the hotter side walls of the lenaire would impede the deposition of carbon and ash, and the force of the blower/gun assy would simply expel a significantly higher amount of carbon out the stack before further flame and heat could convert that carbon to ash, therefore explaining the much lower ash deposits in the furnace at cleanout.

now if we go back and look at spencer's rig and how he uses it

he reports using it to provide power for his modest home, and from the video it would appear he uses a 55gallon drum in thermal siphon. 

it is my bet that the majority of run time the engines is lightly loaded, perhaps under
1kw electrical, with this size of cooling capacity it is likely that the engine is running too cool, perhaps no more than the omni reference earlier. if this is the case, as i am fairly certain of, any carbon will deposit more so in the cylinder/piston, and head
and be subjected to further heating and convert to more ash,, light loading also causes
an engine to load up a bit, added oily patially burned goop combined with this ash
and collected in the rings and ring lands would work together to wear the dog snot out
of his engine.

this might also explain how something like a changfa 195 does so much better on waster oil as related by the fellow David from africa, the cooling system of a changfa is such that even without a load the engine will attain much higher temperatures than a lister can achieve. due to a much smaller cooling capacity
of approx 2 gallons as opposed to 30 or more in the 55 gallon drum.

the lister uses the surface of the drum to release the heat from the coolant water, while the changfa uses the phase change to cool with so much less coolant and far less surface area.

i also strongly suspect that the fellow with the ashwemegh 12/2 in georgia
had his setup either thermstatically controlled, under heavier average loading, or had
a cooling system sized appropriately for the load he presented to the engine.

there are lots of pieces to this puzzle, and a clearer picture is emerging.

it seems obvious to me that burning waste motor oil produces ash, how much ash,
 where it gets generated and deposited as well as how an engine is able to tolerate
it will all work together to establish how long the engine is likely to last.

it seem reasonable to conclude that running an engine at a light average load, running with an oversized cooling system for that average load, made from parts of lower quality than what might be needed for this type of fuel, will all work together to dramatically limit the longevity of the engine,,, as has been reported by spencer.

bob g


That post is full of theory and misinformation

I own a Omni boiler and also a Thermobile jet type burner workshop heater and both produce lots of ash
The Omni boiler produces more to clean out because of the reduce air flow through the heat tubes where the slower the gasses pass through the more heat is transferred to the water, at no point any where in the combustion chamber of this Omni waste oil fired boiler is there any carbon just white dry ash.
All so the Thermobile blown air heater has no carbon just white ash.
The Thermobile heater being a blown air heater has a faster air speed through the combustion chamber as heat is dispersed over a longer heat exchanger and this has the result in more ash being blown out the chimney stack.
At no point will get black clumps of carbon when WMO is completely combusted.
The fact still remains that this ash from fully combusted WMO in any fairly large amounts will wear the moving pasts of an engine out
All fact as I own all three types of commercially produce waste oil heater and have done for many years.
Go to this site
At no point will black carbon exit the chimney unless there's a problem or you have just lit a vaporise pan heater which is not up to temperature.

At no point was my engine under loaded or running cold, FACT

Some one here keeps forgetting that fully combusted WMO makes white ash and black lumps of carbon are not fully combusted WMO

« on: January 31, 2011, 08:22:45 PM »
As a follow on from my topic of engine damage I have carried out an experiment to see if I could explain the rapid bore and piston ring wear in my Lister at a very low 1700 hours of use.
The results are quite shocking and explain why the engine has suffered such extreme wear.
Click the link.


Waste Motor Oil / Danger engine damage
« on: January 25, 2011, 08:45:49 PM »
Do not use waste oils of any sort unless it's veg oil.
All lubricating oils have additives and when burnt these additives chemically change and produce a abrasive ash which can wear piston rings and cylinder bores out in as little time as 1500 hours of use.
The additives can not be removed by filtering or distilling or gassing of the oil.
This subject is really one for chemists as is a very complex one and any one with connections with the petrol chemical industry may be able to give a better description of what's going on.


Lister Based Generators / Lister generator project
« on: January 08, 2011, 05:16:04 PM »
I thought I'd post a few pics of my next project.
I have a pto generator which I have tried on the back of my tractor and it worked really well.
The Lister FR1 is going to power it.
I have to make a frame to mount it all on and also fit a large dynamo I have for charging my battery bank.
I think I might use a Petter AA1 to start it as I have a spare engine and this would mean I could always be able to start it at any time without the use of a battery.

Also a few pictures of a spare FR2 and my CS which I am using at the moment and also my Lister FR2 generator which runs large loads.


* Have had a problem uploading the pics. I'll try again later - unless someone can tell me what the hell I'm doing wrong!!

Waste Motor Oil / Wmo
« on: December 16, 2010, 05:05:28 PM »
Does not seem to be many posts in general but there is no posting in waste motor oils.
Am I the only person using it to generate electric ever day?
People say they are using it and then they go very quiet.
A lot people talk about generating there own power but 2 years on they are still talking about it.
If your using wmo as a main fuel every day in a generator lets hear about it. 

Waste Motor Oil / Injector heater/compression change over valve
« on: October 14, 2010, 05:46:10 PM »
The injector heater failed the other week so I have been running with out it.
Every day before the next run I unscrew the cylinder head bung and scrape out any carbon that has collected.
There has been no difference in the amount of carbon and the injector tip is keeping fairly clean just as when the heater was working.
I thought I would refit the compression change over valve and see what difference running in low compression would make.
I can also report that there is less carbon build up.
I think the extra air turbulence is moving the carbon and the engine run's smoother in low compression.
Before I started running my Lister on wmo I read what people where saying about wmo and they would say you need extra injector heat and to run in high compression and run the engine under a heavy load.
I am finding you just need a 2000 watt load and a thermostat and that's it.
But I have had injector tips carbon up in the past but I think the waste oil I have at the moment is working well but I don't know why. 
All I know is it's working very well at the moment.

Waste Motor Oil / lister 6/1 som
« on: September 23, 2010, 10:14:37 PM »
The head gasket failed one night so the next day I stripped the engine down just 150 hours short of clocking up 2000 hours.
All this time its been run on waste engine oil mix and there was no carbon in the exhaust port and the head and piston top had very little carbon.
When I pulled the piston the rings and the sides of the piston where carbon free and clean.
I fitted a new gasket and its powering the pc and the house as I write this report.
I think this is good news and I see know reason to stop burning this free fuel.

Lister Based Generators / Lister FR1
« on: July 21, 2010, 11:11:00 AM »
I have put a video of my latest buy on youtube.
If you put in Lister FR1 you will find it.
Also a video of my FR2 and three videos of my CS.
There is a video of a home made compressor which I have since taken apart but I have made a new and improved one which I will make a video of soon.
Next job is to fit a Gast air motor to my sun tyre machine.

Waste Motor Oil / Home power Lister 6/1
« on: July 15, 2010, 08:17:16 PM »
Still going strong with over 1500 hours now and no sign of any problems.
Just using sock filters to filter the oil.
I have also bought a Lister fr1 4 KW generator which to try some wmo.
I have the remains of a Lister VA if any one needs some parts.

Waste Motor Oil / new batch
« on: July 10, 2010, 09:41:51 PM »
This hot summer were having in the UK might be a good thing if my Lister is telling me correctly.
Sine I've finished burning the two stroke oil I had I've started burning the next batch of old engine oil I picked up from a couple of garages.
I always remove the compression blanking plug and clean off the carbon from the injector tip before the next run ,but since the hot whether and the next batch of  oil there has been no carbon for over a week and a half.
So I don't know if its the oil or the hot whether?
I am going to reduce the a mount of petrol diesel mix and see what happens.
I am on the look out for a regular source of petrol diesel mix from cars filled up incorrectly and then pump out by people like the AA but I was told by an AA patrol man that it had to go to an authorized company.
Has any one got any thoughts

Waste Motor Oil / 2 stroke oil
« on: June 18, 2010, 08:10:01 PM »
I thought I would mention that I've burnt (with a 15% petrol diesel mix) 205 litres of Total red 2 stroke oil.
There was less white ash and carbon than when I used waste sump oil, but I suppose that is to be expected.
I've just collected 3000 litres  of WMO, so should be alright of a while.

Waste Motor Oil / waste motor oil
« on: June 01, 2010, 10:30:35 PM »
Hello every one,
I thought i would post how i,am getting on.
I've been running my 6/1 for some time on a mix of 3.5 litres waste engine oil to 1.5 litres of petrol diesel waste fuel.
I've run other mix's and find petrol works well as a mixer but is expensive so petrol diesel waste fuel is free and my choice.
I find the injector tip gets carboned up and has to be cleaned, so i removed the change over valve and fitted a blanking plug which can be unscrewed and the injector tip clean.
Since i gave the engine a bit of attention its clocked up over 1200 hours on waste oil.
Definitely high maintenance.
Has any one else clocked up many hours on motor oil.

Lister Based Generators / Lister CS SOM battery bank charging
« on: July 07, 2008, 09:27:04 PM »
I have a Lister SOM 2.5 kva.
  I tried to charge my 48 volt battery bank with a forklift battery charger which draws 1000 watts when plugged into a metre and charges at 40 amps.
When I plug it into my SOM it makes the voltage, which is normally 240 AC, drop to 220 AC and the wattage drops to approx half and it won't charge anywhere near to it's 40 amps.
I have load tested the SOM with the metre connected while running an electric heater and other loads.
I have loaded up to approx 2500 watts and the voltage stays about the same, so I don't see there being a problem with the generator.
Is there something weird going on because I am using a battery charger ( i.e. converting AC into DC), that is making the generator not work correctly?
Any ideas what the problem could be? Or am I making some kind of fundamental mistake?
Any thoughts on using a 48 volt generator running off the engine to charge, instead of a battery charger, as I would like to charge the batteries up as quickly as possible so as not to use unnecessary fuel.
Is there such a generator, which is cheap and easy to find ( e.g. automotive alternator)?

You can see my engine running on YouTube:

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Original Lister Cs Engines / Generator wiring.
« on: June 26, 2007, 08:52:23 PM »
I have a Lister cs start-o-matic.
Just bought it. The original generator on it is not wired to the start-o-matic box.
I want to use it just as a generating set.
Can anyone tell me how to keep the original generator, but wire it seperately so it will generate electricity without using the start-o-matic electrics box?
Will it still need a battery to work, because I don't need the electric start facility?
Any suggestions?

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