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Messages - fattywagonman

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1
Listeroid Engines / Re: epa tier 2 compliant??
« on: May 13, 2007, 05:58:27 PM »
Hi Hoater,
The sound is something like a pop wush - pop wush.... The pop is the normal exhaust... wush is the steam exhaust... There's a slightly longer wait between the pop that with a 4 stroke..   

So far my combined cycle engine is very crude... but I think about 10-15 % more efficient that a singe cycle engine .. I need to build a 3 valve head and valve train so the steam stroke can have it's own exhaust valve... This will allow use of a condenser and also better exhaust heat scavenging.

2
Listeroid Engines / Re: epa tier 2 compliant??
« on: May 12, 2007, 04:28:32 PM »
Hi Guys,
Just jumped on here to see how things are going...
Here's my .02 cents...
There is an easy way to make almost any diesel meet the emissions standard...
A few of you may remember my semi closed loop engine... where I took a Listeroid and cooled the exhaust and returned it to the intake.. I installed an air pump to add the air needed for combustion. Remember air is only 20% O2... so you can add pure O2 just to keep the O2 levels high enough for combustion... BTW that 20% O2 means 80% of the gas that goes into the engine is merely working fluid. 70% of the working fluid of an engine is nitrogen...

engine pollution occurs from 2 things... unburned fuel (HC's) / which is caused by lack of proper mixing and having enough O2 for combustion. The other pollutant is Nox... this is a nasty yellow gas... Nox happens when O2 and nitrogen are present in a high temperature environment... one way to combat Nox is to slow the combustion process / flame front.. EGR does a pretty good job of this... cooled EGR works even better... also recirculating the majority of the exhaust helps burn HC's that didn't get burned the first time... this is usually the job of the catalytic converter... but running the exhaust back through the combustion process makes more sense IMO... use the unburned fuel to make some power...

T19 I don't think a 5 stroke is possible with a piston... it has to be an even number IMO...  Maybe someone is trying to coin a phrase... this happens...
Some engine manufactures have talked about injecting a small squirt of diesel as the engine exhausts.. this sounds kind of like what you are mentioning..

I built a 6 stroke engine from a a Petteroid similar to Crowers... this engine is internally cooled.. it squirts some hot water in on the 5th stroke... and exhausts it on the 6th... this is nothing new.. The 6 stroke idea is about 80-100 years old...

3
Straight Vegetable Oil / Re: New to the group,, saying hello~!`
« on: April 17, 2007, 05:47:09 PM »
Anyone who is curious about how Dana and I play together should do a search injector line heaters over on the infopop forum... 

For the record I have posted hundreds of pictures of various experiments and products, and how to's on how to make various stuff like heated fuel lines and even the injector line heaters...... I am not stingy with my informaton... Visit my old web site www.fattywagons.com for some pics and info...

When Ken aka akghound had his lister's exhaust valve seize up due to running WVO in cold weather I sent him a heater to test for free...  I figure a single cylinder engine is the best thing for testing... As far as I know the engine has ran fine ever since... His home did burn a while ago so I'm not sure what is going on with Ken...  BTW I sent him a heater some time (6 months or more) before Dana ever offered an injector line heater...

I have also posted scientific data such as tailpipe testing results... It seems nothing I do will satisfy Dana...  but the frustrating thing is I've never seen any photos or results of his testing... just that grimey old boat tank...

Bob, why don't you ask him about the bank of listeroids with over 15K hours on SVO or the fleets of trucks he has converted.... Good luck getting any real info... Since he has decided to post here I will leave for a while... I've enjoyed discussing engine with you all...
John

4
Straight Vegetable Oil / Re: New to the group,, saying hello~!`
« on: April 16, 2007, 05:54:48 PM »
Hi Bob,
I think it's interesting since some folks are advocating adding 5% biodiesel mix to diesel.. B5... others advocate a 20% mix... B20.... some go all the way to 100% B100.
Most folks pushing biodiesel don't advocate using SVO... they use scare tactics like engine damage to keep folks thinking it doesn't work... but a 40-60 mix of new VO and diesel fuel will operated without incident in most engines an a warm climate...
Here's my story...

 over 4 years ago I purchased an old benz for $150.. I did some modification to the fuel system and started running 100% SVO in it... I had a heated filter and fuel line but one day I noticed the engine ran better when the injector lines were hot... so I made some resistance heaters for them.. I was the first to make / sell an electric heater for the injector lines...  I posted my experiences on a forum... Immediately Dana came along and said this was useless and didn't work... I did tail pipe testing of CO and HC's and found them lower with the heaters on... Dana said the results were flawed because I didn't use a diesel tailpipe tester... I'm sure you can figure that a tailpipe tester doesn't care if the engine is gasoline or diesel...

Now Dana also makes and sells injector line heaters.... so go figure...

 well with all that said to date over 1,000 folks have purchased the fatywagon heaters and swear by them...  I can tell you from experience SVO can be used in a single tank in an IDI benz and it has given me over 150K miles of service on an old worn out engine..

Can 100% SVO be used successfully for start up in a DI engine?

My answer is yes... but you need to make some modifications... heated injector, heated injector lines and I have found that modifying the piston helps with making sure the combustion is more complete... 

Bit these days my time is limited so I have been trying blends on my DI vehicles... so far very successfully... do I have 300,000 miles on the blends? no I do not... But I do have about 20K on them... and so far so good..

Now the Dana factor...

Any time there's a post like sodbust made Dana intrudes and trys to become the authority...  This is often frustrating since he offers no proof of his accomplishments or back up for his credentials... He claims to make his money converting fleets of commercial trucks to SVO... But no one has ever verified his claims and he offers no pictures or testimony...  the only thing he has ever posted a picture of was an old boat gas tank that he made a heater for.. Not to be critical but it looked like something my 11 year old could cobble together... when I started preaching the benefits of CHP he jumped on that bandwagon...  He claims to have a bank of 2 cylinder listeroids making power with over 15K hours on SVO... so far no proof or pics... personally I don't like being lied to and I'm fairly certain Dana has concocted some whoppers...   If I continue  contributing here it is likely Dana and I will fight  / argue and it's not good for me or the forum... So if he continues posting I will likely leave... 


5
Straight Vegetable Oil / Re: New to the group,, saying hello~!`
« on: April 15, 2007, 12:53:10 AM »
As usual Dana Lindscoot is taking the conservative approach... He's been preaching this same thing for the last 4 years but has never posted a picture or given any real data about his experiences...

For the record the are several folks who have logged over 200K miles using the blend technique... Dana knows this and still says it doesn't work... 



6
Engines / Re: Making a New Lister
« on: April 10, 2007, 02:38:06 PM »
I agree that building a new 1 cylinder engine  is likely more doable than most folks think it is...
one thing I like about the indians is that all the manufactures make pretty much the same engine... I like the concept of borrowing as many off the shelf parts as possible... the parts are proven... they are available... and they really don't cost that much..
I have a 722 20 or so HP 3 cylinder kubota sitting on my shop floor.. I look at that engine and wonder why it need 3 cylinders to make 20 HP when the 4 banger in my TDI makes 20 HP per cylinder...

But the problem with diesels is vibration... and generally when you concentrate a bunch of HP into one cylinder this becomes more of a problem... adding more cylinder increases the complexity and decreases the efficiency but helps solve the vibration problem.. 

about 20 years ago I started thinking about counter rotating crankshafts and their ability to cancel vibration...
You see I'm a piledriver by trade and we often use vibratory piledrivers to shake the piles into the ground... the way this devise works is that there are 2 counter rotating shafts which have a counterweight to produce an oscillation... when the counter rotating shafts are timed to have the weights at the top and bottom at the same time they produce a violent up and down movement.. but nothing side to side... a lot of the diesel vibration comes from the compression and power stroke... as the engine starts to compress the gas with energy stored in the flywheel the energy is transfered to the block... then when the power stroke is happening energy is being transfered from the block to the rotating mass and load...we'll call this energy transfer vibration  and this is where a great majority of diesel vibration comes from..... energy transfer vibration often becomes more violent when the engine is at low RPM...  . having 2 counter rotating flywheels and crankshaft of equal mass solves the energy transfer vibration issue... for years I have thought about building an engine like this... and then one day I stumbled onto a diesel motorcycle that has this type of engine.. it's called the Neander... made in germany .. home of the diesel cycle...

7
Straight Vegetable Oil / Re: New to the group,, saying hello~!`
« on: April 09, 2007, 05:43:49 AM »
Hi all,
I thought I'd give the sodbust cocktail a try... and report with some results... I've been using the mix for the ladst couple months in my 97 Cummins / dodge and my 03 TDI...so far everything's been great... here's the recepie... new veg oil 60% / RUG  10%/ diesel / 30% while I haven't experienced a mileage gain... I would say the power is  as good or better than diesel... engines start fine too...   
I'll keep it up and get back with more info in a few months...

8
Engines / Re: Making a New Lister
« on: April 01, 2007, 03:57:11 AM »
I'm with BOB.... use a piston, liner, rod, and heat from a KT Cummins.... while were at it lets make it vibration free.....
Use 2 counter rotating counterweighted crankshafts with equal weighted flywheels and the engine will be free of all vibration...   

9
Other Slow Speed Diesels / Re: Kubota Engines Manufactured by Changfa?
« on: March 29, 2007, 07:09:07 PM »
Thanks a bunch Chris....

10
Straight Vegetable Oil / Re: Changfa Direct Injection engine
« on: March 29, 2007, 02:23:34 PM »
From what I understand there are IDI and DI type changfa's.. it would be good to know which ones are which?
 I see Luismc's engine in this thread is DI from the pictures he posted...
http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=1809.0

11
Other Slow Speed Diesels / Re: Kubota Engines Manufactured by Changfa?
« on: March 29, 2007, 02:12:33 PM »
Quote
http://n9zes.zippyvideos.com/ is two videos of my R185 ChangFa running, one with the stock "muffler" and the other with a custom manifold/muffler setup.  The muffler is a NAPA muffler for an '87 Sentra, I recall.  I have the number of it somewhere.

Hi Chris,
I noticed your gen head... Who makes it and here did you get it?

Thanks John

12
Generators / Re: Cost per kWH / fuel used per kWH
« on: March 27, 2007, 02:55:39 PM »
Yesterday I delivered one of my Pettergens to a guy who lives off grid solar... he has a 30kW propane gen and the cost to fuel it is killing him... I think the little petter will be much better for his application.... especially if he uses CHP... He's a rancher living in the middle of several thousand acres... I asked him why he chose to live off grid and he said PG&E quoted him over $100K to establish power.... so it was a no brainer...

So far the consensus seems to be something like .25 - .35 cents per kW to make power with fuel costing about $2.50 - $3.00 /  gal.... Lots of folks pay something close to this price from the utility... Remember  that these little diesels are only about 30% efficient at best....just imagine what the impact of a 10-15 % efficiency gain would have on the cost to make power...

13
Other Slow Speed Diesels / Re: Kubota Engines Manufactured by Changfa?
« on: March 25, 2007, 03:27:04 PM »
The engine design originated in Germany...

I believe Farrymann  / Bukh was the original....


http://www.farymann.de/frames_englisch.htm

Look at the 43E and 43F

14
Generators / Re: Cost per kWH / fuel used per kWH
« on: March 25, 2007, 03:20:03 PM »
Ya but Off grid is burning WVO... that's usually free fuel... BTW why are you running 24/7? Seems wasteful to run the engine all the time..... The fuel used for that first few hundred watts of power is a lot...

15
Generators / Cost per kWH / fuel used per kWH
« on: March 25, 2007, 03:26:39 AM »
Lately I've been interested in the cost per kW when making power with a Petteroid, Listeroid, Changfa and any other fuel burning generator.... at different speeds and with different gen heads...

Martin Nile reports that his Changfa consumed .127 of a gal per kWH of electricity... that's .30 cents per kWH @ a fuel cost of $2.40

James Lerch reports that his Changfa used .09 gals per kWH at a load of 9kW...

http://lerch.no-ip.com/ChangFa_Gen/Day_07/Gen_Compare_Gal.gif

Thats a cost per kW of .21 cents per kWH @ fuel cost of $2.40

Any other data out there???

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