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Messages - Sukhoi_fan

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I was chatting with Ken about possibly mounting two engine to a pallet which would result in possibly having room for up to 24 engines. Naturally this could cut the freight cost per engine considerably.

I had a problem with my last shipment of engines with Homeland Security. They put a hold on the entire shipload of containers until they could be inspected. By the time they got to my container the storage fees, dog sniff, bomb dog sniff, and Vacis x-ray it cost me an additional $2300.00 to get my container released and cleared. Hopefully you won't have this problem, but the possibility is definitely there. Homeland security pays for NOTHING! ALL costs are passed on to the importer.


My agent confirmed this - the Minisitry of Homeland Insecurity is subject to doing this to any shipment. It would not be unusual for there to be an additional two grand or more tacked on (unlikely to be more than the $2,300 Mike cited) because of a Homeland Insecurity inspection. So there could potentially be an additional cost of a couple of hundred dollars per pallet. Not that common, but it can, and does, happen. That is the only unforeseen expense outside of the fixed price.

What we need to take a look at is if Ken would be able to reduce the footprint of each engine's pallet/crate so that we could stuff more units into the container if at all possible. I will look into this further.

Bio-diesel Fuel / Re: The rarely heard of, yet incredible SVO source
« on: April 24, 2006, 12:55:50 PM »
I think the most two plants talked about in the everglades in the past were Melaleuka and Brazilian pepper. They cover many thousands more acres (in Florida). The Chinese Tallow tree goes anywhere south of a hard freeze and prefers the swamp/wetland. It is more an interest to the USDA but the paper mentiones a couple of times that it has an ornamental use...even in California of all places. Since it is already in my county, I am not worried about "introducing" it.

I was thinking of producing them "orchard" style and forcing seed production with gibberellic acids. The younger the tree can be forced, the more possibility of controlling the spread. Oil could be extracted with a simple screw machine.

Sukhoi-fan, do they run diesels on straight tallow oil or is it converted into biodiesel?

still reading........

I'm thinking that if it is economical enough to harvest to use it for a source for biodiesel ag fuel production. I don't know enough about it to address its use as SVO in a diesel, although you can certainly expect that if and when I extract some Tallow tree berry SVO a Lister will get a diet of some to check it out. ;D

I am interested in this as well.  I'd like to see if we can itemize exactly what we are goin into our pockets for.  I agree its worth it.  Just like to see exactly what is costing what.  I'd hate to find  a bunch of hidden fees cropping up along the way. Also I'd like to know if I can pick the engine up at the port of entry.  That would be cheaper for me to do then have it shipped to me.  As for the port of entry, who is going to determine that?  As we are all spread out it's going to be easier and cheaper for some then others.  Personally if I have a engine in the freight container id rather see it come in the east coast or even Chicago.

 So, I am pretty clear on Ken's requirements.  I'm not so clear on the actual shipping costs from England to the U.S.  Once it's here what fees are there?  Who is the shipping agent?  What kind of guarentees are there?  What happens if I pay for an engine and we dont get enough people on the band wagon to get it to roll?  Who is going to organize all of this?  Your thoughts fellows?

Hi Ironworks

Please see my response to Thomas' post addressing some of the issues you brought up.

As I mentioned, the POE will be Austin (via Houston), and picking up the goods from the agent's Customs warehouse in Austin is certainly an option besides having it shipped to you.

Also as I mentioned previously, I am bringing in this container whether or not others find it viable. I see no problem in getting enough committments to fill 12 pallets, one way or the other.

If your preference is the east coast or Chicago, perhaps this is not the best avenue for you and you should consider some other means of importing to your preferred POE. I would suggest you check your local shipping agents and see if you can get your goods consolidated into a container from Southampton destined to your prefered POE.



As you can see, freight can get a bit complicated. A couple of other things to be aware of, once the container is taken off of the ship it goes to a storage yard, expect fees of $50-100 per day for storage until Customs gets around to clearing it. ( you generally have a couple of free days) If you have the contained unstuffed, then the goods will go into a Customs bonded warehouse, which also costs money until the items are cleared and picked up. I had a problem with my last shipment of engines with Homeland Security. They put a hold on the entire shipload of containers until they could be inspected. By the time they got to my container the storage fees, dog sniff, bomb dog sniff, and Vacis x-ray it cost me an additional $2300.00 to get my container released and cleared. Hopefully you won't have this problem, but the possibility is definitely there. Homeland security pays for NOTHING! ALL costs are passed on to the importer.


Thanks for the useful info Mike. I will inquire about these additional costs and any hold that may be placed on the entire shipload. The agent/bonded Customs house I use has never come up with any additional expenses once a committment has been made and the shipment booked. They have always been straight about everything.

but if shipping containers will hold 20 or 40 or however many pallets on the *floor*, I'd love to see others with engines or motorcyles (have you checked the deals on old BSA and Triumphs?) or other heavy stuff jump on board to share in expenses.

Ken was saying that the container will hold 12 pallets max w/ one Lister per pallet. I would like to see more if possible, but the capacity is up to what Ken is able to work out.

I will inquire with our agent as to whether or not he could find other goods to consolidate into this container. Given we have months to work with this may be doable, but no guarantees. All others are welcome, but the first priority is the Listers.

As US buyers we need---

1) An 'agent' in England to contact, inspect, collect and pay for items bought.  (Ken, Mr. Lister, is one.)
2) A storage facility in England.  (He has that too.)
3) Packing and loading and paper work guy in England. (It looks like this is another of Mr. Lister's soon to be aquired skills.)
4) An 'agent' in the US to oversee unloading at the dock, storage, inspection, paperwork, of the container.
5) A way to divide and trans-ship or collect the stuff we bought.

RE: #2 - the paperwork be handled by our agent in Austin, covered by the costs I posted earlier. Ken is already being very gracious and generous, I hate to ask him to do more, i.e. unless he desires to do so, with appropriate compensation of course. I cannot speak for him. One thing to consider there is having someone besides our agent do the paperwork in the UK could possibly unnecessarily complicate things. Something else to consider. Ken has offered to load the container from a dock height location in Southampton. It would work like this: agent arranges for container to arrive at Ken's loading location on the speciified day, Ken loads over the course of a few hours, Ken then seals the container for us (or possibly the agent there in Southampton, TBD), and then the container is drayed to the port of Southampton. Once Ken closes up the container it is the agent's responsibility.

RE: #3 would be all be covered by our agent based in Austin, the one I advised you of. It will be completely turn-key from the time Ken closes and seals the container to the time it is opened in Austin and off-loaded after clearing Customs.

RE: #5 will simply be a matter of once your Lister mounted pallet is out of the container the agent will dispose of it according to your directions, i.e. hold in storage until pick-up, load it on your shipper's truck, or ship it to you, which of course you can make well in advance. I will find out the fees for storage and post on this thread.

Once we're booked, I would be posting prgress reports on here as they become available, e.g. loaded and departing Southampton w/ ETA Houston, arrival at Houston, arrivial at Austin and expected Customs clearance, etc.



How soon will you know the tottel cost   customs tax storage every thing ?  Tom

Hi Tom

Not meaning to be unclear on the costs, from my experience when calculating your shipping costs in the earliest stage of the import process one begins with a 'ballpark' quote from your (various) agent(s) to get an idea and then one does one's investigation into all the necessary details (unless one has prior experience in the particular exporting country as well as importing into the USA). I have a trustworthy freight agent/Customs house so I depend upon them for pricing out all the particulars rather than round up all the differnt parties myself. I do all the info gathering on my end that I can to save the cost of my agent doing that footwork, things like making sure the seller of the goods fulfill their FOB obligations. Of course there are a lot of variables, like in this case we're not dealing with a seller, Ken is being kind enough to handle the details in the UK so that all that needs to be done is have a container delievered to one location for a few hours, Ken will load it, and off it will be.  Ken is doing us all a tremendous favor and we should all be grateful.

Thanks, Ken!

I have used this partiicular agent seven years ago, in one case to import a 40' container of food chemicals from the interior of China, and in another case to import a single 10KW diesel genset from the interior of China. In both cases the entire shipping process was troublefree, there were no additional expenses, and this agent did everything he said he would. He made sure that we covered all the bases in advance, pointing out things I needed to do myself to make sure there weren't any problems/surprises (as best that could be done - the genset manufacturer could have sent me a crate of rocks; an associate went to China to supervise the loading of the food chemicals). Over a period of years some friends of mine used this same agent to routinely import electronic components from the Pacific Rim without any problems and will do so again.

So, here's the deal on doing this container: I am organizing this and I'm not making a dime off of doing my end of it. All I want is to get my friends' and my own Listers over here, and do so in a timely matter. If we can get the costs down by getting this container maxed out (consolidating other goods into it), then great, otherwise it's coming, absolutely full or not. Of course all costs will be fixed and can be determined beforehand. There will be a drayage expense (hauling the container to and from the location where it will be loaded) and a paperwork expense in the UK, which right now is a high estimate of ~$1,000, ~$200 for the paperwork for the entire loaded container and ~$800 for the drayage expense (which was based upon drayage outside Southampton, but Ken is going to haul the crated engines to Southampton and load from there, so this expense will likely be less). The cost of bringing the container from Southamton to Austin is ~ $2,500, so the total 'ballpark' cost at this point is no more than $3,500. We will be able to fit at least 12  Listers into the 20' container. I am continuing to nail down the total expense over time and I will post all new info on this thread as I acquire it. It may take a couple of weeks to get the total cost nailed down.

The total cost does not become fixed until there is a booking, at which point everyone will have to put up the cash before we proceed. The total shipping at booking will have little, if any, variance from what we were quoted You will pay the shipping agent directly, I will not be collecting any funds.

Once the container arrives in Austin and has cleared Customs, then you'll be able to either store it at the agent's warehouse until you're able to pick it up yourself, you can have your shipper pick it up at the agent's warehouse, or you can make arrangements with the agent to forward it to you. I will get the storage rate and post it here. I will also post any additional costs, if any, once the container has cleared (shouldn't be any as far as I know).

I will disclose the name of my agent to those who are earnest, but it is preferred that all contact with my agent be through me. Once the container arrives you can contact my agent regarding the disposition of your goods. The reason for this is if my agent does the consolidation rather than me, then the total cost will go up. I will furnish all participating parties with the name of the contact person at the agent's warehouse, and all your correspondence - fax, email, phone calls, etc. will be with that representative of the agent only, strictly for the purpose of arranging storage, pick-up and/or or shipping (all the details dealing with disposition of the goods after clearing Customs). Any deviance from this and count yourself out (if already outboard, then you won't be able to participate in the future) Just so we're clear on this, these are the terms of this deal. If you're not comfortable with this, then I suggest you find another means of importing your Lister. I have a good business relationship with my agent and I don't want him unhappy with me because I brought him any headaches. And of course I don't want anyone else to have any headaches either, I want this to go smoothly.



Bio-diesel Fuel / Re: The rarely heard of, yet incredible SVO source
« on: April 21, 2006, 03:08:37 PM »
From all the research I've done thus far and the RKIs I have chatted with, 500 to 1,000 gallon/acre yields seem realistic, IF they could be harvested on a large scale. The challenge is harvesting the berries economicially, that's why no one has already done this. And it is a huge, seemingly insurmountable challenge. At this point I have serious doubts it could be feasible due to all the little problems. In China where manual labor is dirt cheap, they harvest by hand, but because of other factors their culitivation of Tallow tree berries is on the decline.

The current line of thinking is to get one of those tree shakers like they use to harvest pecans with. We're likely going to give it a shot, but this year's berries wouldn't be ripe enough until fall.

And because it is considered a noxious weed by many (and it really is), it would be a really bad idea to introduce them somewhere where they haven't already invaded.

I apoloqize for the confusion - that would be the frieght from South Hampton to Austin, not including paying Ken for his time and material. We are going to have to use certified wood for the crating.

I just got off the line with Ken and got the info I need to proceed to nail down the cost to do this. It is looking like no more than $350 each, and probably closer to $300 for the freight into Austin (it is much easier for my freight agent to deal with these heavy units at his Austin location rather than his Houston location).

Bio-diesel Fuel / Re: The rarely heard of, yet incredible SVO source
« on: April 20, 2006, 05:59:58 AM »
Sorry guys, I don't know what to tell ya about that link not opening for ya. I just cliicked on the link in original post and it opened just fine for me. Of course it is a pdf document and you know how squirrelly those can be in Windows.

Go to your favorite search engine(s) and do a search on 'Chinese Tallow tree'.

I searched and found sources stating a yield of up to 1,000 gallons or more of oil per acre from the berries of the Chinese Tallow tree. :o

Bio-diesel Fuel / Re: The rarely heard of, yet incredible SVO source
« on: April 19, 2006, 05:49:11 AM »
BTW, seeing that there is a WVO forum but no SVO forum, may I suggest starting an SVO forum since there is an interest here in extracting SVO?

Bio-diesel Fuel / The rarely heard of, yet incredible SVO source
« on: April 19, 2006, 05:47:14 AM »
This source is eclipsed only by the promise of oil from algae (which will require a huge capital investment) and possibly rivaled by palm oil, relative to yield per acre.

And it is "virtually impossible to eliminate" once it's introduced into an area. It is a proven substitute for PD.

Unfortunately, it is only found growing in certain parts of the country (where it just takes over once introduced), and where it isn't found, nobody will want to see it introduced.

The good news is that is thrives on land that has little use for any other ag purposes.

It's the Chinese Tallow tree.

We're trying to get a handle on how to harvest it economically. Any ideas???


Hi all,

I am interested in importing original Lister CS engines. I use a very reputable and dependable shipping agent/bonded Customs warehouse based in Houston and Austin, Texas (bonded Customs warehouse in both locations). No 'surprises' relative to freight charges, this shipping agent is a straight-shooter with many years in the business.

Anyone interested in freight consolidation to Houston?


Best regards,

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