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Messages - captfred

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Waste Vegetable Oil / How long can you store wvo?
« on: September 27, 2008, 10:31:38 AM »
So how long can you store this stuff?

Got lots of oil readily available from multiple sources.
Got a ready supply of surplus 130 gal propane tanks I can pick up for 20 bucks ea., less in quantity. (55 gal drums are more expensive - go figure).
Got a surplus underground quansat hut (munitions bunker) to store it all in.

So, does anyone know how long you can store wvo without it going off (stinky, slimy or whatever that makes it unusable)?

Cheers, Fred

Listeroid Engines / Re: auto/emergency shutdown
« on: September 25, 2008, 01:28:45 PM »
Hi Jens

The solenoid shutdown is, at present, only for overtemp shutdown  -  plan to add an overspeed trip soon. I still start by hand using the decompression levers and shutdown the regular way. Sorry, don't have anything to offer for autostart.   Engine is easy to start by hand, but have been thinking about air starting - like what you have done - but probably won't get around to adding that til after I hurt myself  ;)

The auto overtemp shutdown works well - so does the emergency air shutdown - closing the emergency shutdown air valve slows the engine down nice and easy.  Using a 12 volt system to power the radiator fan, solenoid, hour meter, wvo pre-heat as well as some lights etc.

Hope something here helps


Other Fuels / Re: alcohol
« on: September 20, 2008, 11:10:54 AM »
The main problem we've run into is cheap heat - don't want to buy propane, or diesel for the mbu stoves, or gasoline for Alaska tent stoves - modifications are in the works for running the mbu stoves or alaska tent stoves on wvo - but that's down the road.

Tried fruits (mangos) - too much work - growing some sugercane to see how that works out - tubers (tapioca) seem to be the easiest to grow - just takes more (hopefully almost free) btu's.  Tapioca is the crop of choice in china for ethanol production

Fun project, but a long way to go.


Everything else / Re: Grid tie inverters, a million and one questions
« on: September 20, 2008, 03:09:02 AM »
Hi Jens - don't have much to offer, but I'll do the best with what I've got ;D

Ive an Outback VFX3524M (non- gridtie), continuous integrated into my home electrical for over 3 years - not one hiccup - tropical temperatures and humidity (today it's 90%) - not that it applies to your situation but I think it says something for quality.

The unit samples the grid power and if it is outside user set parameters it switches over to battery/inverter until power is back into normal range, when that occurs it then over back over to  grid power and the charger takes over and tops off the batteries.  Works just fine with my roid power too - with all our power outages (sometimes 3hours at a pop - 3 times a day) the roid has been doing a lot of the battery charging  - again mine is not grid-tied - but a friend is on occasion doing the same thing with his roid and grid tied Outback - more as a last resort emergency during extended outages.

He's got solar panels feeding his outback - when the grid drops out due to load shedding, no problem - still has power in the house running off the batteries being charged by the panels.

My guess on the recommendation to not use a generator -  if you're producing excess dc from solar wind etc the grid-tied units may want to sell to the grid, or in this case your generator - kinda bad for your generator.

Unfortunately, the only way for the grid tie inverter to put  juice back into the grid is if there is a surplus of power on the dc side - thats where that  big dc alternator would be nice (one reason I went 24volt instead of 48)

Don't know where Xantrax is but Outback is in Arlington WA, not too far south of the border- might be worth a trip - doubt they'd give up a service manual - but maybe a personal inquiry at their doorstep might help.

Hope you find something helpful, Good luck, Fred

Generators / Hertz is hurtin'
« on: September 14, 2008, 12:58:02 PM »
Fired up the beast today and things weren't so hot - 655 rpm on the engine but the st output was out of whack - 119 volts and 45 to 55 hertz

What would cause the wild, low hertz?

Any info, as always, is greatly appreciated.

Cheers, Fred

Listeroid Engines / Re: 12/2 rebuild questions
« on: August 27, 2008, 05:21:58 AM »
Hey Scott, thanks for the information - I'll check it again with plastigage after assembly - we've another set of rods if one's bad, maybe I can get one of the engineers on the prepo ships to check it for true - isn't anything on island.

Funny you mentioned your oiler mods for the injector pump - I was just reading that other post cuz I'm thinking of adding oil filtration to my engine - oddly enough it was the one on the governor side - we ordered 4 new spares and only one rotates, need to take em apart and adjust the clearance between the plunger slot and the end roller.

Guess part of the problem is mine - grew up working in an automotive machine shop where we had virtually everything - fitting bearings was easy with that old sunnen rod hone etc.

A lot to be said for working with a guy who's done this kind of work all his life by hand.

Hoping to get a bit more service this go around.

Thanks again, Fred

Hey Jens, you just posted as I was about to post this -

I thought the same thing about the changeover valves and increased compression for the wvo - til I read another post about possible bearing damage by running with em screwed in, so I screw mine out during running.  I mentioned the unheated wvo just because - wanted to provide some background to the running of the engine prior to the rebuild - I only heat mine from the coolant and the engine heat - temperature at the injector runs around 180 F - just posting these particulars for information.

Cheers, Fred

Thanks again, Fred

Listeroid Engines / Re: 12/2 rebuild questions
« on: August 27, 2008, 03:54:56 AM »
Thank You Gentlemen for the excellent observations and advice!

Since we really don't have the requisite micrometers, and no hone to fit the bearings, have taken the crank and rods etc down to an older machinist from the PI (he's worked on similar engines back there). Anyway, He's carefully scraped the bearings (I know they say not to do that) with tool stock blank and fitted them to the crank and checked for clearance.

Will begin fitting the crank this afternoon (after leveling the deck for good measure)

As to the reason for the rebuild - the engine was run out of the crate from india - changeover valves were never screwed out and the engine was run at, or near full load 8 - 10 hours per day for 9 months  on straight unheated wvo - nuf said.

Upon tear down the # 2 rod bearing and crank pin were severely scored (can post if you want) the cylinder liner showed asymetrical wear (slight ridge at the top on one side of the barrel, none on the other)

One injector pump lobe on the cam was worn pretty badly due to that injector pump roller's failure.

One rocker assembly bushing was severely worn.

Can't think of another way to "torture test" one of these engines than the way this one was.

Again, Many thanks for the assistance, will try to follow as much of your advice as is possible, and post the results of this project as it progresses.

Cheers, Fred

Listeroid Engines / Re: 12/2 rebuild questions
« on: August 26, 2008, 04:42:58 AM »
Pulled the crank out and set it up in a jig to fit the rod bearings - here's what I got ...

As per the book torqued down the nuts to 55# and backed off - got 5 thou as in the picture (between the recommended .004 and .006)

installed the conrod on the crank with .004-.009 plastigage and torqued to specs - rod wouldn't move - ended up installing three shims  with another plastigage check and it came out .004 clearance.  Now I'm a little lost.

Don't believe there's anyone on island  with a sunnen hone to fit the rod bearings to the crank - and I agree with Bruce that a bunch of shims isn't the best solution for longevity (that's the idea behind this rebuild - longer reliable operation)

Any ideas would be most appreciated.

Cheers, Fred

General Discussion / Re: price of steel
« on: August 25, 2008, 11:35:07 AM »
No desire to keep this thing - I've plenty other WW II pieces that aren't his unstable.  tThe Japanese s@$t was always really unstable. Need to  put in a call to civil defense, have them come out, get it and put it away in storage til the DOD guys come up from Guam and blow a whole bunch of the stuff.  Here's a link to the epa site on munitions detonation here on saipan - fun stuff.   

Always a "blast"  to go up to suicide cliff (that's it's real name - and for good reason) and watch the detonations.  ;D

In the past  this stuff used to end up in the dump - years ago( shortly after I moved on Island) a guy scavenging in the dump was blown up (dead) - another time a rather large munitions  blew up and ended up bouncing off the walls inside the generator room of one of the oil companies down at the fuel dump - a few feet the wrong way and it would have gone thru a fuel tank - oops, that would have been a big one.

None of it is anything to trifle with, but it does add an edge to life.

Cheers, Fred

Waste Vegetable Oil / Re: WVO specifications
« on: August 25, 2008, 05:02:52 AM »
Hey Jens,

The friend with the rebuild tried a multitude of exotic fuel mixes - really liked the wvo/rug and the wmo/rug (really fouled up the centrifuge with gunk though).  After looking at the inards of an injector pump run on this stuff as a single source, I'm still inclined, for now, to continue with the duel fuel so that diesel sits in the pump, lines and injectors when the engine is idle.

For testing purposes I'll continue with the fuel mix I'm running with up to 1000 hours (if I get that far ;D) then try a wvo/rug mix after that.  Like you said the rug has some distinct advantages - and it's cheaper too.

Cheers, Fred

Waste Vegetable Oil / Re: WVO specifications
« on: August 24, 2008, 10:18:56 PM »
The engine we're rebuilding - after 9 months of extended heavy loaded operation running 100% unheated wvo - shows serious fuel system problems - the glycerol, or whatever it is, gums up the injectors and pumps, also carbons up pistons, valves etc. (nothing new here).

From day one I've run mine on a duel fuel setup - start and shutdown on diesel, when up to temp switch over to 90% wvo/ 10% diesel -  I depend on the engine daily for suplimentary power but still consider this setup an experiment to see if this system is viable in the longterm (with consideration to maintenance, including parts repair/replacement etc)  Have to wait and see how it looks during the 1000 hour decarbon maintenance

With a 12/2 consuming  1/2 us gal (1.9L) per hour and diesel over $5.50 per gal - long term operation running dino diesel isn't a financial option for me, I really need  free fuel source - wvo/wmo whatever- to keep this a daily operation instead of a once in a blue moon backup generator

Cheers, Fred

Listeroid Engines / Re: auto/emergency shutdown
« on: August 24, 2008, 11:14:19 AM »
I hunted quite a while for a simple (murphy switchgage - always liked them) solution to the overtemp auto shutdown for my roid and am very happy with my present setup (I haven't needed it - yet - but since I'm running the engine every day it has freed up some of my anxiety over an overheating issue - I'm not as nervous or feel I have to check the "iron bitch" every 10 or 15 minutes as I did when the system wasn't there)

Anyway, this is what I ended up with on the electrical side ...

Here's a picture of the mounting bracket for the solenoid (energize and hold to run - overtemp or loss of 12 volt power - shutdown)

Here's an image of the wiring of the switchgage, tattletale, ignition switch etc

I know that thermosyphon cooling is the simplest but I wanted to protect my investment from some really nasty weather and the generator shack gets pretty hot - 120 F on a sunny day - wanted to move the cooling outside of the space so chose the radiator option the the  electric fan and adjustable (between 160 deg and 250 deg F) thermostatic control -

Cheers, Fred

Listeroid Engines / Re: 12/2 rebuild questions
« on: August 24, 2008, 01:31:25 AM »
Thanks Bruce

We changed the liners and pistons cuz of odd wear at the top of the liners - slight ridge on one side but not the other (bent rod is my guess)  will have to do some research to find some proper micrometers - no easy task here - and a friend in guam is looking for some plastigauge to send up.

We did chuck up the crank in a lathe and check with a dial indicator - appears to be true - the center bearing fit seems good - end roller bearings too - so it's time to double check the rod bearings and journals again


Listeroid Engines / Re: 12/2 rebuild questions
« on: August 23, 2008, 01:52:30 PM »
Thanks for the responses Leland and Geno, will look into them tomorrow.  I asked about plastigauge at several parts stores and they were clueless - should have known better - will order some, but with the power situation, my friend (it's not my engine. really  :D), would really like to get the beast running - would take a week to get plastigauge mailed out and no sunnen equipment on island to properly hone bearings if required

General Discussion / Re: price of steel
« on: August 23, 2008, 11:12:16 AM »
I could see the young'un's try to bowl (I mean blow)  down my 60 year old sake bottles or glass fishing floats that are in the yard.  ::)

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