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Messages - AdeV

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General Discussion / Re: Glort gone awol
« on: January 09, 2021, 12:12:33 PM »
If anyone wants to get in touch with him, send me a PM with your e-mail address, and I'll forward it on to him.

General Discussion / Re: Canít get recently bought LD1 to start
« on: December 23, 2020, 01:18:50 AM »
Check the oil too - if the level's going up, then diesel's getting past the rings into the crank case - not ideal!

Can you roll it over compression easily? Can you hear hissing out of the intake or exhaust when you do so (the former would confirm poor compression, the latter would point towards the appropriate valve not seating correctly. No hissing could indicate stuck rings allowing compression to leak into the crank case.

No smoke could also indicate poor injection; if you remove the injector, and re-connect it to the high pressure line, do you get a fine mist when it injects, or a solid stream of fuel, or "blobby"/sputtering injection? (Be very careful not to have the tip of the injector near your person - it WILL inject diesel through skin, leading to all sorts of Bad Things happening...) You want to see a fine mist.

Something else to try, is to put your hand over the intake when cranking it. Can you feel suction on the intake stroke?

I'm pretty much out of ideas now :)

Listeroid Engines / Re: Unloading a Listeroid the Indian way
« on: December 21, 2020, 08:31:47 AM »
Two things about that video:

1) I feel there was more horsepower in the back of that van than there was in the front  ;D

2) The unloading method was considerably less violent than I was expecting! In fact, if you ignore the fact that the cross-bar on the back looked far too flimsy, the engine was remarkably well chained up for it's descent to earth...

I'm sure I wasn't the only one expecting them to lash the engine to a tree, or something, then drive the van out from under it...

General Discussion / Re: Canít get recently bought LD1 to start
« on: December 21, 2020, 08:21:45 AM »
Are you getting any kind of smoke out of it at all? White smoke would indicate partial combustion, and is a good indicator of low compression as Mike suggests. Definitely sounds like the exhaust valve needs cleaning up.

I have an LD1 here (in bits, right now) which needed spinning FAST to make it start; and when it did go, it produced some spectacular clag until it got up to speed. Chances are, if it's done service as a cement mixer engine, it's going to be pretty well worn. Nothing that some new rings, maybe a bore hone (if it's not a chromed bore), and some valve fettling wouldn't resolve.


You didn't get the challenge, so here it goes: The chain I got it from bijou store, can you believe that?

If you dont have a dog... a cat will get it!

Haha - Nice bit of lateral thinking there... I think the original is brass (not sure), but I don't suppose it matters what it is, so long as it doesn't go rusty... more of a problem in our wonderful English climate than yours I suspect!

Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« on: December 15, 2020, 04:53:17 PM »
Good man!

I did find my tank (eventually...), but it's still half full of diesel & I've not had chance to get it all out, apart & cleaned...

General Discussion / A Book Club, of sorts...
« on: December 10, 2020, 09:24:06 PM »
Evening all!

IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ: You'll notice there's a poll on this post. Please, once you've read this message, take a few seconds to choose one of the options. I've put the "I don't care" option right at the top, so if you decide you're not interested, you don't need to read all the message, bit please DO click that one & submit your vote, that feedback is also highly valuable to me!

The poll will run for 30 days (until January 8th I guess, or thereabouts), and the results will be automatically shown after that.

Your vote is anonymous (well, I *could* dig around in the database and find out who voted which way I guess, but no-one else can), so please don't feel under any pressure to "follow the crowd".


A while ago, there was some discussion about a document repository for engine manuals, particularly Listers (obviously), but also covering other engines such as Petters, perhaps Wittes and Arrow and similar.

Around the same time, maybe a bit later, a spammer got in and tried to trash the WOK board. I locked that down at that point, and whilst a couple of threads have been suggested as "WOK" worthy, the problem with saving threads is, they tend to drift around, go off topic, sometimes end in arguments, or the original poster never comes back with updates, or etcetera.... all of which means threads end up IMHO not really being worthy of WOK after all...


So - having been giving the matter some thought, I'd like to propose a partial solution. It does, however, require some volunteers (I volunteer myself, with what little time I have, but I'm going to need help with running it). I'll do all the setup, and I'm going to try to integrate it into the forum's member system, so we don't have to register/sign in on two sites (Coppermine, I'm looking at you...).

My plan is to install some Wiki software. Kind of like Wikipedia, but the one I was specifically looking at is called BookStack. This uses a Bookshelf/Book/Chapters/Pages paradigm for sorting documents ("pages"). So, for example, we can group stuff together into engine types, and/or task type, and/or whatever. I believe (going on memory now) that a "page" can appear in multiple "books" - e.g. if someone wrote up an article on how to grind the valves for a Lister CS; this could be in a "book" about the Lister CS; as well as a "book" covering general engine maintenance (of course, we wouldn't need that actual document - everyone knows you just leave the casting sand inside the cylinder & let the engine grind it's own valves!  ;D)

We can also scan and/or re-type actual engine manuals, and add them to the library. Over time, the hope is that we can build a properly valuable resource for the owners of the various engines which get discussed here in the forums, especially as it seems likely that diesel will be in ever shorter supply in the future, as the world turns to electric transport...

Now.... if you were reading carefully, a couple of phrases might have jumped out at you above: "if someone wrote up an article..." and "scanned and/or re-type".... Yeah, this is going to involve actual work. It's also going to require people to voluntarily allow copyright to belong to LEF (or, at least, rights to publish in perpetuity), write-ups that they've done. This is a big ask, and it's my hope that you, dear reader, will consent to this should you be able and willing to write up maintenance and modification procedures for these engines, their ancilleries, and so on. Again, my thinking is we'll end up with a body of work which covers as much of the experience of buying, owning, running, maintaining and modifying engines as possible.

Now.... the next question is: Who gets access, how, and so on.... IMHO: Some of the content can be made publicly available. e.g. a document on how to date your Lister engine (and/or your Petter, Blackstone, Witte, Arrow etc.) Other stuff, e.g. a complete Haynes-style manual on a Lister CS Single complete with painstakingly drawn diagrams, is probably worthy of requiring actual monetary payment (with compensation going back to the author, just like a real book). In between that, there's probably scope for a number of smaller articles (how to grind valves WITHOUT casting sand, for example), which could be free to LEF members, but not available to casual visitors. Or something; I don't pretend to have all (or even any!) of the answers...

So.... over to you Dear Reader. In particular, I'd love your feedback on:
 - Do you like the idea?
 - Would you be willing to contribute towards "free" pages, i.e. no remuneration?
 - Would you be willing to write "paid-for" pages, with most of the money earned going back to you?
 - If we gather enough material to produce an actual honest-to-got print book, would that whet your appetite?
 - Do you think the whole thing's barmy and we should do X-Y-Z instead?

Currently, I have no more invested in this than a couple of hours playing around with BookStack. I like it's style of organisation and indexing (waaay better than most Wikis which rely on manually maintained contents pages), and IMHO - with enough participation - we could build something we can all be really proud of in the years to come.

So, gents, you thoughts please!

Also, if you got this far, now might be a great time to choose your answer in the poll, if you didn't already. You can change your vote any time up until the expiry date, so if you get persuaded a different way by any of the answers below this, assuming/when there are any, then don't worry! You're not tied to your first choice. Thanks!

PS: I'm open to alternative suggestions too, and tweaks, or wholesale changes to what I've outlined above. Please do share your ideas.

Thanks again.

Lister Based Generators / Re: Lister Start-O-Matic manual
« on: December 10, 2020, 02:17:52 PM »
Unfortunately Peter died a while back (can't remember if it was last year or the year before), and I guess his website has now completely gone.

If anyone downloaded it, Please send me a copy too and I'll make it available on this site for download.


AdeV, please send pics, mesures and weight. And thanks in advance.

Will do - I'll try to get it done today or tomorrow, got to find it first!

Hi AdeV

Yes, Im aware, and I got to make something alike. Chain and float were brass, so thief take it a long ago.

I was fairly certain you'd know ;)

If you need pictures, both weight & float are present on my tank, so just let me know.


Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« on: December 07, 2020, 05:47:41 PM »
In case you weren't aware (you probably are?); the one on the right should have a chain going through that pulley to a float on the inside, and a bobweight on the outside. The higher up the side of the tank it goes, the less fuel you have...

Is it directly coupled, or belt driven?

The ST1 is a 10.5hp @ 3000rpm engine; this would give you about 6kW (with a bit of safety margin thrown in); but if it's directly coupled then the engine will be goverened to 1500rpm, at which (at a guess) you'll be getting 5-6hp, for a maximum of probably 2.5kW, maybe 2kW if it's at the lower end.

Assuming it's making power, a simple test would be to plug a couple of 2kW electric fires into it (ideally, the type you can switch between 1kw/2kw); keep adding load until the engine bogs and doesn't recover, and that gives you - approximately - your max load.

Generators / Re: One phase not working
« on: December 03, 2020, 09:44:30 AM »
A friend has a generator where one phase has stopped working. The phase not working is the one supplying the 240v output. The 3-phase does not work. If the 240v outlet is switched to one of the working phases to supply 240v, will running the generator like this cause further damage? 3-phase not required

It depends on how it's failed. If it's shorted internally, then it'll heat up and catch fire - which wouldn't be ideal.  If it's failed open circuit, then it shouldn't do any further damage, it's just a dead leg. You'll lose some efficiency (i.e. excessive fuel consumption), as the engine is dragging a dead phase around, but assuming this is just an occasional use set, that's probably not an issue.

All three phases should be giving out the same voltage - i.e. 220 across the board, or 240. The specs for 240v AC power actually allow anything from 220 to 250, so even at 220 you're (just!) in spec.

Machine Mart occasionally sell reasonably priced 3-phase alternators (I think they're Mecc Alte branded), they also do 240v ones, but for some reason they're more expensive, IIRC.

Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Start-o-matic relay sequency
« on: December 01, 2020, 11:13:27 AM »
AIUI, the SOM system doesn't need the valve lifter; it's there in case you have to manually start the engine, and we know how difficult that can be without a run-up on the crank handle...

Listeroid Engines / Re: Low oil temperature
« on: November 26, 2020, 03:09:32 PM »

I just get to thinking that they specified 30 weight oil, and unless 15W-40 gets hot enough, it will always be 15 weight oil...

The original CS engine was designed, IIRC, in the 1930s, and even then the crank case was based on the even older Lister L, which was designed in the early 1900s. 110ish years ago, there was no such thing as a multi-grade (and definitely no such thing as synthetic) oil... but the advice to use "straight 30W non-detergent" oil has somehow stuck. As other posters have said elsewhere, pretty much any modern automotive oil will be leaps and bounds better than the oil these engines were designed to use...

Now, admittedly, I wouldn't put 0W-5 anywhere near a Lister (way too thin), but anything "about as gloopy" as 15W-40 will be just fine.

The "non-detergent" comes about because these engines don't run an oil filter. Modern oils are designed to keep any bits in suspension, to be filtered out; non-detergent oils are designed to "drop" the particulate matter, thus theoretically leaving it in the sump. This is unlikely to be a big concern, though, and if it does worry you, it's a fairly simple job to add an external oil filter/pump which simply sucks oil from the sump, filters & returns it. You'll catch almost any suspended stuff that way, as nearly all of the oil will be filtered. TBH, I'd only do that if I was seeing noticeable particulates in the oil.

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