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Messages - Bottleveg

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1
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: British Container Shipment
« on: April 08, 2014, 02:24:04 AM »
For anyone who missed the boat on this........... Let me tell you how my "buy a cheap Lister and get it shipped with a bunch of others" has gone so far.

Four years ago, I gave Dr. Death (Mike Lisenby) $1000.  That was $500 for a REAL Lister CS, and $500 which was my share of the shipping costs.
My engine was collected, and I recieved a serial number, and was told by the seller (Mark LeRiche) through Mile Lisenby "Tell Brett he has a good engine. Apparently it had a service by Lister in '06, new piston, liner, bearings, mains and whatever else they could charge for! "

Then there was $150 here and there for pickup/delivery to Blackpool etc.

Well....... 4 years later, and more moving/storage charges, another $500 shipping (my share of the container) but wait, I thought you already paid that......
Who knows what happened to that money, so I paid it again (this time to Gary)  ******All hale Gary for pulling this off!!!******

Last week I drove 1800 miles round trip (2897 Kilometers for the rest of the world) to finally go pick up my REAL Lister.  The trip was made on WVO, so I didn't have to pay for fuel.  i would have had it shipped, but I couldn't afford to put more money into this.

..........
..........

It's gonna take a lot more money  :(

My 8/1 is crap.
I've started pulling everything apart, and so far have discovered the following parts in need of repair or replacement.
The beautiful SOM flywheels are loose.  Looks like they were ran with loose keys, and the center is buggered.  These will probably need to be bored out to accept QD bushings in the future.  Gary pointed this out upon pickup, and was kind enough to sell me 2 Indian 8/1 flywheels (several hundred more into this engine).
OK, I can live with that .............it's only a little more in the scheme of things.
BUT, now I take it apart and find the crank is a bit worn where the flywheels were.  I hope I can clean things up enough to get the indian flywheels to fit properly.
One side of the crank had felt, but not the other... I've been able to remove one bushing, but the other is stuck.  It is held in place by the oil thrower ring which someone was kind enough to hammer into place with a screwdriver.  This peaned the thrower onto the crank.  I guess I'll have to cut it off.
OH, by the way.... can someone tell me exactly how much rust is OK to have INSIDE the engine?........ That's what I thought... CRAP.

The governor is rusted stuck.  The cam wouldn't come out without drilling the end tapered pin first.  The rocker bushings and shaft are worn out.
The piston rings are glued to the piston with crud.... That doesn't really matter, because the piston is scored up, and has a hollow burned in the top.  These aluminum pistons are flat top (or it used to be), so it needs to be replaced.
Oh, did I mention that the cylinder (which looks scored too) is labeled as .030 so standard parts wont fit.  That's if I can salvage it anyway.
The injection pump is gummed up, but may be servicable with a good soak.
I haven't really looked at the cylinder head yet, but assume the worst with it too.
The inside of the engine is filled with some rust, and the thickest gooiest sludge I've ever seen.  It is like a combination of gear oil, bearing grease, water, and glue.

On the bright side, I finally have a real Lister crank case to start an engine build with, and it only cost me 4 years and about $2000 so far  :(

What is that?  You missed out on the shipping container?  You may be the lucky one.



This is interesting! I supplied you with
ďA complete working engine in used condition with no known faultsĒ.
No new parts were fitted. The cylinder had been re-bored, re-chromed and a new piston and rings fitted, by Lister, at some time during its working life, but this would not have been done in 2006, so I would'nt have advided that.  I believe I sent you a video of the engine running? The engine number was 1179818. Do you have this engine with the correct flywheels?
I also believe I advised you that an engine of this age (50 years) ideally required stripping, checking and re-assembly. Wear items inevitably need changing.
The flywheel keys were removed and left loose, as instructed by Mike, so the flywheels could be removed for shipping. The flywheels were tight when I received the engine and did not show any signs of being Ďspuní when removed. I have no way of knowing if the engine has been started after delivery to Blackpool.
Fuel and oil was drained for shipping but the crankcase had not been cleaned out.
A charge, at cost, was made for supplying an export pallet, bolting the engine to it and arranging a haulage company to collect it from me and deliver to Blackpool.
I must stress that I had no control over the engines security; storage or treatment after it was delivered to Blackpool. My only involvement with the Blackpool site was to facilitate the independent removal and shipping of some of the engines when the container shipment Ďfell apartí and I gladly did this free of charge.
One thing that did dismay me was that the engines were stored outside. My original brief from Mike was that they were going to Ďinside, secure storageí. Your engine was delivered to Blackpool in July 2010 so how many years un-secure storage did it have in the UKís wind and snow? Prior to this it had spent itís life indoors as part of a generator unit.
     Mark.

2
Good work!!!
The early CS engines used to have a drain plug on the bottom of the filter bowl.
This would be another useful mod as it would enable the bowl to be drained before filter changes and a drain tap could be fitted to check/remove any water.
     Mark.

3
Generators / Re: Parts for a SCTF117 BRUSH generator.
« on: February 05, 2014, 10:59:54 AM »
I have a selection of slip ring arms so may have them.
Iíll need a photo and some measurements. PM me your email and Iíll get in touch.
   Mark.

4
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Startomatic Generator Rewind
« on: January 29, 2014, 12:45:51 AM »
Anyone know what grade the startomatic brushes are?

Thanks,

DC (4 brushes) CM6
DC (2 brushes) C4
AC SB5

5
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: 8-1 Liner, is it chromed?
« on: January 26, 2014, 10:33:59 AM »
The VA had a chrome bore and plain rings but a chrome top ring was fitted.

Are you sure?

Every Lister VA I have ever seen had a plain cast iron bore.

I understood that chrome plated piston rings were to never be used in chrome plated cylinder bores.

Iím not 100% sure that they all did. Iíve only had the head off two and they were early models. I originally read the info in some Lister literature and thought it strange to also add a chrome top ring.

6
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: 8-1 Liner, is it chromed?
« on: January 26, 2014, 10:27:46 AM »
Yes I believe it's original Lister but I do think it's sleeved too.  You can see the line at the head and the liner extends about an inch below the cylinder casting.

It does look like a liner but itís one casting.

7
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: 8-1 Liner, is it chromed?
« on: January 26, 2014, 01:18:53 AM »
If itís the standard bore and looks like a UK cylinder then I would say itís chromed.
The basic design idea, being as the cylinder had no sleeve, was for the rings to wear instead of the bore.
I have had some 8/1 engines (Ď58/í59) that have been re-bored by Lister but I suspect this was probably done due to enthusiasm rather than need! Earlier (pre Ď50ís) engines (3/1, 5/1) often have wear at the top of the bore on the exhaust side but this is due to high hours and, I suspect, poor circulation in the water jacket.
  Mark.

8
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: 8-1 Liner, is it chromed?
« on: January 25, 2014, 08:32:22 PM »
The chrome tends to peter out at the top and bottom of the bore so it goes from mirror to dull. Listard plates were only fitted to early units and the practice ended around the WWII. Chrome plating continued until (I think) the late 70ís. Cylinders that were re-bored by Lister were re-plated and had a +10, +20Ö.. brass plate fitted.
There is also a means of identification using casting numbers, but I canít find the info at the mo.
Different rings were available for chrome and plain bores.
The VA had a chrome bore and plain rings but a chrome top ring was fitted.
Your unit (1960?) would have originally had a chrome bore.

   Mark.

9
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: 8-1 Startomatic flywheel repair
« on: January 21, 2014, 05:36:17 PM »
The other thing that happens is the key comes loose, drops out and the flywheel free wheels. The flywheel is softer than the crank so the centre hole ends up too big and often oval.
Itís something to watch out for if buying second hand flywheels. Worn ones were often Ďput to one sideí years ago and now nobody knows they were scrap.
I think my current 8/1 had a new flywheel fitted as it has no engine number.
  Mark.

10
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Startomatic speed change for 60Hz
« on: January 21, 2014, 11:27:24 AM »
Lister 8/1 or 6/1?
If itís an 8/1 the belt drive on the genny flywheel needs to be 11Ē and I think its 9Ē on the 6/1.
The one problem is the detection coil is 50hz so it would need replacing with a 60hz one or it wonít self-start. I seem to remember the windings fitted to the 60hz units were different but I canít remember now, and I canít find my list of part numbers for the windings, so this could be the main problem.
The voltage settings on the shunt field resistor, auxiliary resister and battery charge resister would need reducing, before the unit was restarted, and then readjusted up again when running at 60hz.
   Mark.

11
Lister Based Generators / Re: Startomatic operation mystery
« on: January 16, 2014, 02:20:20 PM »
Hi Mark,

What I meant was, that if for some reason the feed to the solenoid is going through the  economy resistor at both start up and run, then as this is at a reduced current,  it would struggle to pull the core.

Good luck with the Kroll.

Mark.



OIC. Itís possible but I donít think the economy circuit would have any chance of operating the solenoid. I seem to remember Iíve had this on one unit, wires wrong in the top box, I think.
I must start writing things down, and then making a note of where I wrote them!
What is it with getting older? Brain gets smaller and fingers seem to get bigger. Ears get bigger but hearing gets worse
Kroll sorted (touching wooden desk).
   Mark.

12
Lister Based Generators / Re: Startomatic operation mystery
« on: January 16, 2014, 09:33:36 AM »
Could the delay be due to that when accelerating the engine from stopped, the start windings drag the nominal 24 volts down to a level that does not supply the solenoid with enough current to overcome inherent friction,  when the engine is spinning freely the current draw will drop allowing the solenoid to operate ?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Another possibility,   the economy resistor limits the current available to the solenoid when the engine is running, so if the limit switch or wiring which controls this  is faulty then the solenoid may not have enoiugh current to operate as it should.

Mark.

Hi Mark,
Yes thatís a possibility. I did think Ď those batteries arenít too goodí when I first watched the video.
Not sure about the economy resister. I guess itís possible to wire it Ďback to frontí but the solenoid coil would burn out if it was run on Ďhigh loadí in general running.
On a similar note, itís possible to loose half of the starter winding on some of these gennys. The unit will still work but only at half the power.
  Time to get my hands oily again! I have a mis-behaving Kroll to attend to.
    Mark.

13
Lister Based Generators / Re: Startomatic operation mystery
« on: January 16, 2014, 09:09:32 AM »
Iím not aware of any other delay mechanism that Lister fitted. Itís probable that the one in the video has a slightly rusty pin. This would hold it for longer in its sleeve until vibration and the two rack springs open it. Or the owner may have fitted a delay relay.
 A good unit will drive the engine through the compression stroke but the pin avoids an immediate load. 
Personally I prefer a delay relay to take the load off the batteries and start windings.
  Mark.

14
Engines / Re: injector pump stuck
« on: January 16, 2014, 02:03:57 AM »
Do you know anyone that makes bio-diesel?
Veg oil is readily dissolved when soaked in the Ďglycerineí by-product.
A hot solution works faster. Also makes a good hand cleaner.
   Mark.

15
Lister Based Generators / Re: Startomatic operation mystery
« on: January 15, 2014, 11:26:42 AM »
When the SOM turns off the Ďpiní of the de-compression lever engages under the exhaust tapped. The engine freewheels and eventually stops at the point where the pin is trapped under the tappet.
When the SOM starts, the pin wonít release until the engine has turned and removed the pressure off the pin.
The idea is to give the genny a Ďswing at ití before the engine goes onto compression.
The pins wear over time so they pull out prematurely and can stall the genny. The cure is to remove the pin and turn it round or, if this has already been done, make another pin.
   Mark.

P.S.
I notice on the video you posted that there is quite a delay on that unit. Is this your SOM? I wonder if the rack is a bit stiff?
Another way to achieve the same thing is to fit a timer delay relay into the circuit.
An adjustable relay can be set to how many seconds you wish to delay it for.

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