Lister Engine Forum
Lister Engines => Listeroid Engines => Topic started by: Twinscrew on August 31, 2006, 01:45:34 AM
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My father just finished his Listeroid generator project this week just in time for Tropical Storm, er, Hurricane, er, Tropical Storm, er, Tropical Depression, er, Light Drizzle Ernesto. It seems as though Ernesto lost his cajones, which means that Pops will have to wait for another storm to officially commision his Listeroid powered generator into service. Ernesto is passing over us (Daytona Beach) as I type. Here are the pics of the finished project.
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/Twinscrew/P1010048.jpg)
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/Twinscrew/P1010050.jpg)
The project breaks down like this;
Pops has a 10-kw, 4-pole, self exciting ST generator head belt driven by an Anand 12/1 which are mounted atop a 24"x24"x48" concrete block. The engine was not what I would consider a "jumper". He started his engine many times, unbolted, for everyone who stopped by for a beer. It would move, of course, but more of what I would call "skating" around on the concrete. Not much either. The engine had no significant issues as some on the forum have had. No sand in the crankcase, for instance. The tappets don't rotate but he's not concerned about it. My brother, gpkull, pulled the flywheels and dynamic balanced them to "0 imbalance" on a big truck wheel balancer (Dad's 12/1 is internally balanced) just for good measure. I don't know that it needed it, however, it certainly couldn't hurt. The only other modification was the addition of a "cheapie" import muffler. The base was formed up around a welded 3/4" rebar cage to which the anchor bolts were also welded and then poured solid, which took (25) 80lbs. bags of Quickcrete. The engine and Gen head are anchor bolted to a 3/8" steel plate with a 1/4" sheet of conveyer belt material underneath. This all sits, drilled and pinned, atop a 5" fiber impregnated concrete slab. The cooling system consists of a Ford pickup radiator (6.9 Diesel) affixed to an extruded aluminum stand w/ a household box fan which is wired to start and run as soon as the generator makes power. As you can see this is one sweet looking Gen set. I may have to retire my gas Briggs & Stratton "screamer"and step up to a slowspeed oil burner. My fiance knows nothing about engines but even she thinks it's cool. She asked me " Are we getting one of those?" ;)
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get it quick before she talks to one of her older girlfriends or mom! :)
bob g
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I'd look into fixing the lifter rotation problem....
Doug
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Thats a large rad, does it run hot enough??
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Thats a large rad, does it run hot enough??
Yes, as far as I know, it's an unpressurised system. He tested several setups and settled on this one. This will probably not be the overkill it appears to be on a 95-100 degree day at full load after a hurricane passes.
I'd look into fixing the lifter rotation problem....
As I said. He's not concerned about it. This is to be back-up power in case of interruptions in grid power. He has no plans to go off-grid (as far as I know).
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Twinscrew---
The reason the tappets rotate is to lubricate them. I'm off grid....I HAVE back-up power. He *needs* back-up, not break-downs. ;)
Pull 'em and send them to me and I'll grind them flat.
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Pull 'em and send them to me and I'll grind them flat.
Thanks Hotater. I asked him about this and he said that they don't rotate because the cam lobes were pinned centered under the lifter (which would make sense- no spin). So, it would be a matter of removing the cam, drilling and re-pinning the lobes off center from the tappets. I personally would do it. I believe in lifter/pusrod rotation for long term life. My father, however, is not concerned about it. If you'd like to try to convince him otherwise, more power to ya. You don't know Pops. ;D
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Twinscrew--
You might be able to shim the whole cam to one side and get in lined up under the tappets just offcenter. I had to do that with mine.
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get it quick before she talks to one of her older girlfriends or mom!
Not to worry Bob. Lately, she talks to mom more than I do. :-\ We both have condos on the beachside at the moment ( no room for a Listeroid ).
However, we hope to build a house on the mainland in the near future and I'm thinkin' dedicated Listeroid shed. ;D
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Hotater, I never about that and I bet my father hasn't either. How did you go about that? Some sort of thrust bushing? He might go for something like that. I think he'll be reading this thread at some point. I called him tonight and told him that his Listeroid pics were posted on the forum.
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Hotater, I never about that and I bet my father hasn't either
There is a "thought" missing there somewhere. It's late, I'm going to bed.
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I'm trying to state this delicately, because I don't want Pops to make me his bitch like he did with Ernesto -- but that sure looks like a 6/1, not a 12/2. What am I missing? Nice installation by the way.
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12/1
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but that sure looks like a 6/1, not a 12/2
It's neither. It's a 12/1. Unless.........a 6/1 can make 10kw. :o
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Nice setup.
I put a brass or bronze thrust washer at the red dot. I did it mainly to get my IP lobe centered over the roller. It also reduced the lateral play to about .010" and gave a little more offset on the lifters.
(http://www.warrensburgvendors.com/geno/temp/cam.jpg)
Thanks, Geno
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I put a brass or bronze thrust washer at the red dot. I did it mainly to get my IP lobe centered over the roller. It also reduced the lateral play to about .010" and gave a little more offset on the lifters.
Thanks Geno. A picture is worth a thousand words. Man, your cam thrust measurment must have been huge. I'll run this idea by Pops and see if he'll go for it.
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but that sure looks like a 6/1, not a 12/2
It's neither. It's a 12/1. Unless.........a 6/1 can make 10kw. :o
Yep. like mine. Anand 12/1 is basically a 6/1 with a 5.12 bore instead of 4.5 and 1000 rpm instead of 650. I don't really see much of a problem converting a 6/1 to a 12/1. sleeve, piston, rings, flywheels(maybe), IP/injector(maybe).
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Thanks, bitsnpieces. Does that mean that externally they appear identical? This would explain Procrustes confusion.
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Seems these anand engines have similar qualities. I have a 6/1 and the cam lobes are not offset by as much as I have seen on other engines. They are not exactly centered under the tappet but just barely offset. My tappets were not rotating and I was told that I would have to do cam work to make them rotate. I ended up pulling the tappets and aside from having a terrible surface finish the intake tappet was not even close to square.
After grinding them square they rotate very well. Both tappets rotate about 1/3 of a turn per lift.
Can anyone tell me how to use the insert image button?
View of camshaft
http://griffinslab.com/listeroid/viewthroughthefrontaccesspanel.html
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Thanks Firefly. Maybe the lifters will have to ground before they rotate. I have not seen them myself. I don't know how bad they may or may not be.
Can anyone tell me how to use the insert image button?
Just copy your picture link to your clipboard. Select the "insert image" icon above the smileys (second from left). Place your cursor between the two sets of brackets and paste your link from your clipboard.
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Thanks, bitsnpieces. Does that mean that externally they appear identical? This would explain Procrustes confusion.
As far as I can tell, they pretty much look the same. There could be external differences like filter, etc., but that could just be a manufacture spec. difference.
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The heavier flywheels on his engine are a dead give away that it is not a 6/1. binnie
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The heavier flywheels on his engine are a dead give away that it is not a 6/1. binnie
Thanks binnie. I'm learning a lot today! Heavy they are, indeed. Somewhere around 200 lbs. apiece. Watch your toes when pullin' em' off. :o
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To reset camshaft position you may only need to turn the collar around that holds it in place.
The great thing about these engines are that they're so easy to adjust if needed and repaired at home.
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To reset camshaft position you may only need to turn the collar around that holds it in place.
Could this cause any cam gear alignment issues?
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Could this cause any cam gear alignment issues?
Usually it helps the alignment instead of hurts it.
I think some of these cams are made and assembled by sub-contractors. Most are exactly right in the spacing of the timing gear, fuel lobe and valve lobes...they are in the proper position, but the whole camshaft is shifted one way or another by the "workman" who sets the collar. If a cam lobe is not hitting a tappet correctly the chances are the timing gear is off by the same amount.
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Thanks, bitsnpieces. Does that mean that externally they appear identical? This would explain Procrustes confusion.
I don't know about that. When I saw '12/1' I thought '12/2'.
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If a cam lobe is not hitting a tappet correctly the chances are the timing gear is off by the same amount.
Thanks, Hotater. That stands to reason.