Lister Engine Forum
Slow Speed Diesel Engines => Other Slow Speed Diesels => Topic started by: vacuum1313 on August 28, 2006, 03:11:48 AM
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I have found an ONAN P2305 600 volt genset in a local scrapyard. Due to the diesel motor the owner wants $600 (canadian). I would be looking to use it as a project motor for WVO and woodgas. The genset has the following ratings, Continuous output 12.5 kW, 15 kVA, 14.4 Amps, 3 phase, 60 cycle. I thus have the following questions;
1) is the motor appropriate for the intended use?
2) Is the price reasonable?
3) What would be necessary for grid intertie?
4) Does the Generator portion need to be replaced or can a transformer be added t reduce to household current?
Any advice is appreciated.
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I can't advise you on how much you should pay, and I wonder if anyone can. Reviving it might be a herculean task, or it may be refereshingly easy.
The consensus seems to be the indirect injection is better for WVO, however there is a multifuel military engine which is direct injection and can burn heavy oils like WVO. There's a writeup of wear testing on engines running WVO, I think on journeytoforever.com -- Kubota diesels wore substantially faster on VO. I believe it tended to draw away chromium or some other metal.
Grid tie requirements differ from state to state in the US, I don't know if there's a blanket policy for Canada or not. Your utility should be able to help you. At a minimum they will probably want you to have a device in place that will prevent you from sending power out into the grid. Some inverters such as a line by Xantrex offer this. Google for "grid tie" an Xantrex.
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Don't know what part of Canada you are in by for ontario look here
http://www.hydroonenetworks.com/en/electricity_updates/renewable_technologies/default.asp
WVO or VO is Biomass
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Does anyone know if Hydro Que. has any such provisions for Net metering? Nothing mentioned on their web site. We must still be in the dark ages. binnie
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Try here:
http://www.hydroquebec.com/autoproduction/en/index.html
ex: bill:
http://www.hydroquebec.com/autoproduction/en/mesurage_net.html
Others; check your utility bills for you supplier company. The people who have responsiblity for putting electricity into your meter should be the ones to determine if you can do back feeding of power and how it's billed.
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Many thanks , bitsnpieces...appreciate the quick service...binnie(pleasantly surprised).
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binnie: not too much of a deal, since I got cable internet instead of dialup, things go faster. My disability keeps me from doing all that much, so I spend a lot of time on the www. 5 years to 8 years ago the www was about all that kept me going. SO, I have a HUGE favorites folder [6,032 files]. Plus I love finding out about new stuff.
vacuum1313:
1) Still trying to find the engine.
2) No idea, are you willing to spend it considering the shape it's in?
3) See previous post in this thread. Your electric supplier would be the one to tell you.
4) Depending on the wiring it might be able to be reconnected to give single phase at three times the amperage. Basically 14.4 A {phase A} + 14.4 A {phase B} + 14.4 A {phase C}, 43.2 amps/single phase . See if there are nine(or 12) leads coming out of the windings. { hot/neutral/hot for each of three phases, plus a ground??} A transformer could be used to drop the 600v. Is that a non-USA voltage?
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Thanks for the comments. I'm in Ontario, Canada. The unit was taken from a local mine where it was a backup unit and has low hours (<20). The Owner used to be in construction and runs the yard on the side. He was willing to get the motor running before I bought it. The Onan Generator Model is 15RDJC-9R/2123A. Don't know if that gives any additional info or not. Can't seem to find either that or the motor on the web.
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Yeah tell me. I've tried to find older Onan stuff on the www also, usually with little luck.
Aahh, a Mine, they tend to use specialty designs like aviation. Could be a standard type model, just reconfigured for the mines use. Just keep hunting!
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http://www.cumminspower.com/www/common/templatehtml/technicaldocument/SpecSheets/Diesel/na/s-1137.pdf
Try this link. Onan is now owned by Cummins. This is for a 15kw Onan diesel set and it has a 300/600 volt option, unfortunately it looks like it wouldn't be re-connectable to get lower volts. At least this might get you headed in the right direction. Also, they have a habit of wanting you to go to a local dealer to get info. They have a search for such on the site.
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Hi Considering the cost of rewinding these things, A step down transformer might be the best way to go.
Besides the transformer you will need a three phase circut breaker box
Then you can put single phase breakers in the box!
A big plus is you can find three phase motors easily used usualy at a good price.
Dennis
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600/347 is a standard industrial 3 phase source used in Canada and most mines around the owrld using 60 hz power.
The CEC doesn't allow a residential service to use 600 v power. However your local electrical authority might allow a varience if you gave him a reason such as power for a shop with tools and machines, but your insurance company will have a bird if you try and pipe 600 into your home. Hammond ( Marcus is another brand ) manfactures dry type transformer in the range you would need to drop this down to 208/120 3 phase but your still left with the problem of 3 phase power with a single phase home.
This is probably mopre trouble than its worth.
Doug
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Hi There are still quite a few homes wired for three phase down here in the older sections of Orlando. I don't think it is much of a problem.
Dennis
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Realy? I never heard of 3 phase in a single dwelling...
Learn something new every day....
Doug
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I heard one tale (from someone that was around at the time) that says when air conditioners were first being installed in private homes only industrial 3 phase units were available so 3 phase was run.
Doug:
600/347 is a standard industrial 3 phase source used in Canada and most mines around the owrld using 60 hz power.
Thanks for the info. That's handy to know.
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Doug:
600/347 is a standard industrial 3 phase source used in Canada and most mines around the world using 60 hz power.
Thanks for the info. That's handy to know.
Realy?
On the other hand American industrail power is usualy 480/277 this combination allows for taps and multi voltage motors and equipment. You need to run more copper but its a flexibilty issue, also of interest is 380 50hz motors from Eroupe will run on American 480 generaly with no issues. That can be realy handy to know....
Doug
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Not worth it. The key component to electrical power generation and application is to generate the power exactly in the form of intended use. If you need to run 3 phase equipment, you generate 3 phase power. If you need to run single phase equipment, it is never cost effective or efficient to generate 3 phase power and convert.
The only exception is in grid applications... In a grid application 3 phase is cheap and easy to produce, then at the application end of the grid (residential subsection) you separate the phases at the substation and deliver one leg to each subsection of the grid.
In a small stand alone operation the transformer costs, and core losses, make conversion prohibitive, even if the generator is free.
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I have indicated to the owner, a retired contractor, that the unit is not suitable. He has indicated a desire to be rid of it so I offered $350 CAD for the diesel only and that only if the diesel is in good running condition. It appears to be a 3 cyl diesel and in running condition I could mate it to a 5-10 hp single phase induction motor, capacitors removed, and feed back to the grid. If it runs reasonable I could even get a 7.5 kw st head for $500-600 CAD and trailer mounted would have a good backup power generator for much less than the emergency units that don't last. The current gen head would be scavenged for wire etc as I have wind and solar thermal projects that would benefit from such. Comments on this plan appreciated.
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I have indicated to the owner, a retired contractor, that the unit is not suitable. He has indicated a desire to be rid of it so I offered $350 CAD for the diesel only and that only if the diesel is in good running condition. It appears to be a 3 cyl diesel and in running condition I could mate it to a 5-10 hp single phase induction motor, capacitors removed, and feed back to the grid. If it runs reasonable I could even get a 7.5 kw st head for $500-600 CAD and trailer mounted would have a good backup power generator for much less than the emergency units that don't last. The current gen head would be scavenged for wire etc as I have wind and solar thermal projects that would benefit from such. Comments on this plan appreciated.
Is that 600 volt alternator 1800 RPM or 1200 RPM? Does it have two bearings, that is it can stand alone and spin without having to hang on the engine crankshaft to provide one bearing? I may be interested in purchasing it from you to help you buy your diesel engine. PM me. I`m in Ontario as well, an hour and a bit NW of TO.