Lister Engine Forum
Lister Engines => Listeroid Engines => Topic started by: keith71 on January 06, 2023, 10:07:05 PM
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Hi all, Tried the usual first tool/tools. Gib key puller. Alot of money for a tool made in India. Inferior cast/steel is what I believe I received.. Broke it fixed it, stripped it fixed it. stripped again and it got flung into the pine trees behind the house..
Time to break out the mig. Gib key is roughly 9/16'' wide. So made a fork out of 5/16 plate that would slide around the key to about the face of the flywheel. Welded it up both sides. Used 4'' square to slide over crankshaft. This is to keep the tool from riding up and bending or breaking the weld at the gib key/fork connection..
Time for some fun, 3ft breaker bar with 2 ft extension. BIG ASS jaw puller. Way overkill you would think, This key has been soaking for a month. Tried every trick I know. Tighten the breaker bar up real tight, and hit it with a wedge at same time. The funny thing is it looks like the assembler tapped the key home properly. No evidence of dents and hammer blows.
I know the tool looks goofy now but that is after a day beating it grinding it welding it. Air hammering it etc. I would have thought this setup would have made it much easier than the india gib key made from recycled automotive sheet metal.
Time for the sawzall and sacrifice one of the spoked wheels to get this thing apart? Starting to run out of ideas and do not want PANIC to set in.. Any suggestions? Thanks.
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more pics
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pic
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Look a Central Maine Diesel puller.
I made my own.
Patience.
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First get rid of the globs with a grinder so you can do a decent job of welding your puller back on. Then put some pull on it, not enough to break the puller but a good hard pull. Next step requires a helper. You need a sledge and a heavy duty punch, preferably with a handle on it. I use a piece of 1 1/2" sharing about a foot long with a 4 foot handle welded on it. You can use a 2 lb hammer maybe for the punch? Next you need an 8 to 10 Lb sledge or heavier.. have the helper hold the punch against tbe hub of the flywheel and hit it with the big sledge like your trying to break it, it will move the flywheel back on the key, move it all the way to the bearing housing in tbis manner and the key will then come out with the puller. Never had this fail yet.
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38ac the puller is not welded to anything. It looks like a mess because it has had it beat up half the day today. It looked nothing like it does now when I built it. I knew people were going to have trouble seeing how it ws put together. It looked nothing like this when I started.. The globs as you say are holding the 4'' sq stock to the fork that is welded to the gib key.. You use what you have on hand.. Those globs will hold way way more than you may or may not know. I tried hitting the flywheel back against the bushing with the puller pressure on it. But only used a 10lb sledge.. I know I will man up and hit it good with an 8-10 beater. Thanks for the info, that may just bust this thing free.
I also only have about a 1/16'' from the back of flywheel to bearing housing. Hopefully it will just be enough.
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Look a Central Maine Diesel puller.
I made my own.
Patience.
Thanks 32 patience is everything.. The first puller I used was like that one from CMD. It was an Indian piece. Stripped threads, retap to larger size stripped again.. I threw that out in the field somewhere. If it is possible, I would like to do a 12/2 with aluminum pistons (not from India) and the stover type flywheels.. Maybe someday.
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Keith, Globs wasn't meant to be derogatory but descriptive, LOL
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I get what you were saying 38ac.. I should have just never posted the pic of that tool after 2 days of on and off beating on it.. It was a poor representation of what I was trying to show.. I kept adding different pieces of metal to the tool as I was going along instead of making something new each time. You guy's must have said what the hell is that thing lol.
But anyway I guess my biggest problem was I was using your advice 2 days before you posted it. About wacking the flywheel in while the puller was on it.. I was just not hitting it hard enough. Not nearly.. After I read your post I went out there and hit it like I meant it and how you said to do it, and whatta ya know it moved...
Guess I was worried to much about the India cast iron flywheel quality and thought I might break the dam thing..
Those flywheels are stronger than they get credit for..
So thank you 38ac.
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Well done Keith71, brute force and ignorance sometimes works, I should know, they don`t come anymore brutish or ignorant than me!
Did you get both flywheels off?
Will you be posting pics of the engine restoration?
Bob
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Now Bob, you can not fool us with that ignorant talk, you have been around here too long! 8) 8)
Glad to read you got them loose. I clearly remember the first time I broke the head off a Gibb key and tbe sunken feelings!
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Well done Keith71, brute force and ignorance sometimes works, I should know, they don`t come anymore brutish or ignorant than me!
Did you get both flywheels off?
Will you be posting pics of the engine restoration?
Bob
Yes both flywheels and crankshaft end housings are off.
Sure, I will include a few different pictures and angles of a coffee mug filled with casting sand 8)
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Well done Keith71, brute force and ignorance sometimes works, I should know, they don`t come anymore brutish or ignorant than me!
Did you get both flywheels off?
Will you be posting pics of the engine restoration?
Bob
Yes both flywheels and crankshaft end housings are off.
Sure, I will include a few different pictures and angles of a coffee mug filled with casting sand 8)
Re; sand
Although I have lost count of the total there has been in the area of 30 Listeroids. processed through my little operation of every "brand" that I have ever seen mentioned. I have experienced exactly one that was clean of sand and slag, which was a Satyajeet 20/2 it was 10 steps ahead of any other Listeroid in every way. Thus every time I read of clean one as received I am like, uhh OK ::)
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I`m with 38ac, never believe an engine is free of casting sand unless you have checked yourself. The worst damage is caused by casting sand in the inside of cast iron pistons as it falls into the oil hole in the big end causing damage to the crank and bearing.
Clean it within an inch of it`s life before reassembly.
Bob
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This one has some as well. Even a little is to much. But I am gonna flip this thing upside down. And get everything I can.
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Best sand and slag remover tool is a needle scaler, not very expensive at Harbor freight
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Yes, a very handy tool.
Really the way to go for these type jobs.
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My 6/1 Ashwemeg had thick paint over sand in the crankcase. The needle scaler easily broke thru it to reveal the surprise pockets of grit.
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I had a stuck gib-key. Nothing would move it. So, I wound up machining a jig that fit perfectly into the key-way. Then, I spotted and drilled a "pilot hole" in the jig, that would keep the drill bit perfectly centered in the jig, ergo also the key. A long drill bit of ~ 3/8 inch (I really don't remember) drilled it out. I saved that jig in the Listeroid "fix-it" box, just in case I needed it again.
I also hear tell from some sellers, that IF you heat the hub of the wheel up with a torch, you'll likely find success....never tried it. But next time, I might.
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Made some progress with the needle scaler.. It has some sand hidden in pockets here and there.. I was expecting more. But have not finished it yet either..
The India assemblers spend so much time with that lousy bondo/plaster filler to make the outside as smooth as possible before they paint them..
Would that time be better spent with an old needle scaler and a little air compressor? Even just 30 minutes would do alot for the sand problems in the crankcases. They never even painted under where the cylinders and lifter blocks sit from underneath.
I guess this engine was barely run, bearings have some marks, but I think everything is going to be reuseable after cleaning all the parts. Hopefully I got lucky. ::)
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I painted the inside of my crankcase when I got done.
I was warned the oil would seep through the crankcase.
I used white rustolium (?) and it has held up fine through the years.
It takes a while to dry but I was in no hurry and it was months before I reassembled it.
The white makes it easy to see inside.
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''I had a stuck gib-key. Nothing would move it. So, I wound up machining a jig that fit perfectly into the key-way. Then, I spotted and drilled a "pilot hole" in the jig, that would keep the drill bit perfectly centered in the jig, ergo also the key. A long drill bit of ~ 3/8 inch (I really don't remember) drilled it out. I saved that jig in the Listeroid "fix-it" box, just in case I needed it again.''
That is a great tip.. In fact I was almost going to do something like that for one of the flywheels.