Lister Engine Forum
How to / DIY => Engines => Topic started by: veasmkii on December 16, 2022, 09:14:06 AM
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Hello fellows,
I bought an engine that I was keen to work on from an estate sale.
Unfortunately, some parts appear to be missing which have prevented me making much progress on getting this thing running.
Looks like this was in the middle of a tear down, or at the very least a repaint or rebuild.
I've been having trouble identifying the engine as the identification has been removed. From what I can gather looking at images, i think this could be a Lister LR1 Diesel.
Would anyone be able to help me confirm which engine this is? And if so, where I could find some manual of operation. I'd love to get started testing it out and getting this back to life.
Attached below are the pictures of it, which could be of some use.
(https://imgur.com/V0ZambV.png)
(https://imgur.com/z18ufwY.png)
(https://imgur.com/bPqkXe9.png)
(https://imgur.com/s0kQwsi.png)
(https://imgur.com/U1pkyAW.png)
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You may well be right on the money for the model. From the pics it appears to be all there but unsure what might be missing when viewing the 1st pic below and right of the fuel tank. Something rusty or copper coloured there and I cannot make it out.
Do you have a crank handle for it?If not you need to find one 1.5" to suit your crankshaft and are redily available online with the usual auction sites or your closest Lister spare parts man. Can you find the engine number and if so that will help confirm the model number. In the mean time the things you should do are drain the sump and wash the crankcase out with some diesel, drain that our and fill with new oil. Drain the fuel tank and I would remove it so you can get a good look inside and make sure it is spotlessly clean inside. Clean the fuel bowl and replace the filter inside and drain all the fuel lines of old fuel. Check and replace the air filter if there is one.
I was able to find a workshop manual online using Google but I had my model number which was an SR2. Depending on where you live in the world will depend on who to contact for parts but some things like filters can be bought at a shop specialising in filters. Here in Oz I use RedPoint for all my oils and filters and they were able to cross reference them all and for some odd filters all I had to do is measure the old filter and they would put one on the counter.
If you do have the crank handle then you can then fill the clean fuel system up and start to bleed the system starting from the fuel tank, then the fuel bowl/filter then fuel pump and finally the injector. Obviously check that the decompression lever works by deleting compression and that when you release the lever you get compression back. Not sure what lev el of ability you have with engines so I try to explain the simple things to do and try. Once you have bled the fuel system complete;y It will be worth a try to start it. I have not seen or noticed the throttle linkage but you will need to ensure it operates to full throttle and back to idle then off. IF it starts and gets away from you do one of two things use the decompression lever and that will stop the engine over time or choke it at the air intake but dont stick a rag over it as it will try to get inside.
Always ask questions if unsure about anything as this is how we learn. Good luck with it and keep us informed
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There was a lot of similarity in various models of those small air cooled diesels and I am certainly not an expert. The SL1 and LD1 are also very similar to that one.
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I have been looking for a 1.5 inch handle, think I’ve ordered the right one from ebay. We will see if its correct when it arrives!
As for compression, it feels pretty good. The lever/switch at the top seems to toggle it. When compression is on, i cant even give it a full turn over which i think is a good sign. Turns smooth with it off. I think i may be able to use this to turn off the engine when it is running?
As for throttle… I’ve no idea where that is, there is one switch like toggle at the mid section (shown in the first pic) which seems to have two modes. Not sure what that does yet.
I will look into draining it, ill get some filters and stuff first when im a bit more confident with it being the correct model.
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Do not use the decompression lever to stop the engine. Is is used to start it only. Circled in the attached picture is the injection pump control. As it is in the picture is off. Swing it to the right and latch it to run.
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Quite difficult to identify without the ID plate, you are also going to have to figure out if it runs clockwise or anticlockwise. The pin in your new starting handle can be rotated to do both. I bought an SR1 recently, it came with a starting handle, I spent 15 minutes trying to start it before realizing the handle was set up for a clockwise engine and mine was anticlockwise.
Your engine has no throttle control, it is a fixed speed engine probably used to drive a generator head. speed can be adjusted by tightening/loosening the long treaded bolt sticking out below the fuel tank.
let us know how you go and what you find, good luck.
Bob
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Just a question, but how do I stop the engine when it's running? The injection switch?
Cheers for the responses, this is helping me out a bunch :)
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This may help.
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Yes, you stop the engine by using the same switch. The switch is connected to the rack on the internal fuel injector pump, when in the off position it closes the rack and the fuel injector will stop pumping diesel into the cylinder and the engine will slowly idle down to a halt. In the on position the rack is opened up allowing fuel to be injected into the cylinder. The speed the engine runs at is determined by an internal governor mechanism, designed to maintain the engine speed set by the screw I mentioned earlier, as the load increases the governor opens the injector pump rack, allowing more fuel to be injected into the engine. As the load reduces the governor compensates by closing the rack reducing the amount of fuel available to the engine.
You may have noticed that there is a small nylon plunger between the air intake and the engine, this is connected to the inlet manifold. It`s purpose is to help with starting the engine in cold conditions, it works exactly like a syringe: you lift out the plunger and fill the hole with engine oil, you replace the plunger and press it all the way down. This squirts engine oil into the inlet manifold, as you crank the engine the oil is sucked into the cylinder where it sits on top of the piston and increases the compression ratio just enough to get it started in winter.
I am not familiar with this particular Lister engine, on my SR1 I lift the starter switch (anticlockwise) to start and press down (clockwise) to stop. If 38ac says it`s the opposite for this engine I`d bet my house he is right.
Bob
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Thank you Diesel Engineering. what a lovely piece of knowledge. Veasmkii should be able to narrow down an engine identification by checking which fuel injector pump it has.
Bob
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Hi veasmkii
Welcome to the forum
As you're finding out, there's a lot of good people with a wealth of knowledge here.
If you access to basic fabrication kit you can make a starting handle that attaches like a 'C' spanner using a piece of tube of the same ID as the shaft, cut down it's length to form the 'C' , although you look to have that covered.
As for the rotation of the engine, this may be teaching you to suck eggs, but all you have to do is expose the rocker arms and rotate the engine, if the exhaust valve closes before the inlet opens then that's the correct rotation.......
Bob, I've done the wrong way starting stunt when I walked around to the other side of my CS, it took a couple of goes before I cottened on!
Cheers
Stef
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Hi Stef, my SR1 can only be started from one side, I think the fellow that sold it to me reversed the starting handle as a bit of a joke, I`m sure he is still laughing, I guess I had the last laugh because the dumper truck it`s mounted in has been a workhorse for the last 4 years.
Bob
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Cheers for the PDF, I figured I'd go a little deeper and begin to find more identifying marks.
I drained the oil, unfortunately this engine is a bit of a mess. Each bolt is rounded, inconsistent or loose.
All sealing gaskets are far gone and have sealant applied.
The valve/rocker cover has been cracked right open with something heavy and had body filler applied...I may source a replacement but it'll do for now.
The fuel tank is wrecked, it's totally rusted and full of sludge. I think it's split too. Fuel bowl isn't much better, it's heavily pitted but I've cleaned it out for now.
Looks like the fuel filter and tank are the same between the models so I've ordered those parts.
The cams themselves look in good condition, so that's something positive and it seems to have compression.
I did manage to find the cam serial, however this doesn't match any of those from the PDF which leaves me scratching my head a little.
(https://imgur.com/oA8S6SG.png)
The fuel pump serial could possibly match a LD1 from the PDF? It's a partial match, at least.
(https://imgur.com/7pIH3Nf.png)
Not really sure what to do next. I guess I have to go further and take out the injector?
I'm assuming the oil that goes in these is 10w-40 from some of the reading I've been doing, correct me if I'm wrong.
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Lister usually stamped the model info on the outside diameter surface of the flywheel. You may try cleaning that up. It is usually a pretty faint stamping and can be obscured by paint and rust.
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Also, if you look at pg 4 of the document Diesel Engineering provided, the shape of the cylinder cooling fins should help you narrow down an LD/SL family engine from an LR/SR.
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Looks like that might narrow it down to the LD1!
(https://imgur.com/ADYIXLG.png)
(https://imgur.com/KJoXVO3.png)
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That definitely says LD1, strange that the other part numbers don`t match up with the PDF. I`m guessing it was a special, built to order for a very particular purpose. Maybe a generator set or the military.
Bob
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Nice. There we go. Should also have the serial number and maybe the spec number. I can't remember what all is included. As far as the cam part number I agree with ajaffa1. There were usually 10-20 different build specs available depending on application and Lister would also build to specific needs if needed.
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The 4 digits on the left are the serial number and the 9 on the right denotes a 1959 production year.
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Attached is the only LD manual I have. It is a marine manual but all of the engine info is the same.
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Oh this is fantastic, full of very useful information! I feel a lot better informed after reading it. Cheers for this
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I've a question on the oil for these things, for next start up.
The manual specifies 4 pints (2.3 litres) of SAE10w. Looks a little difficult to get a hold of. Does it have to be monograde?
Or would I be okay using a multigrade, like 10W-40?
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Multigrade would be fine. That manual is from the 1950's when monogrades were all that existed. 10w would have been for a cold environment with 20w and 30w being recommended for warmer environments. I would think a 10w30 might be a better range but 10w40 should be fine if that's whats available.
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Yes 10W is the correct oil unless it gets very hot where you live and its heavily loaded. We have an SL that I overhauled and use it on a water pump, had 15w 40 oil. It was hard to start, smoked gray and slobbered oil out the exhaust even after I took it back apart and rehoned the cylinder with new rings. I asked a question about that problem on an European engine web site and a responder rather gruffly asked why do you have 15w 40 oil in it when the manual clearly calls for 10W?? Thinking it would change nothing I changed it to 10W to prove the guy wrong,,,, guess what? oil slobbering, smoke and hard starting all cured.