Lister Engine Forum
Lister Engines => Listeroid Engines => Topic started by: keith71 on October 30, 2022, 12:02:57 AM
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Was able to pickup a used 12/2 that sat in the back of a garage for the last 10 years. Used a engine hoist and a tailer to load it onto. Yes these are heavy engines. It turns but is a little stiff from sitting. Thanks to 38ac, dieselgman and cobbadog for the rigging tips. It has some rust under the rocker covers and valve springs. Will probably take the heads of first and open up the front cover and see what is going on in there after sitting so long.
I have been on and off the fence about getting one of these engines for the last few years. If I am going to build a decent generator set, I wanted one that was good on fuel, made the horsepower I needed and most of all I wanted slow speed. That is the main selling point for me.
I do not want a diesel engine like a kubota and others that have to run in there sweet spot of 2800 rpm. That is to fast for me to want to listen to. For me 2200-3000 rpm is a high speed engine esp for diesel, and dont want to listen to that racket.
Came across this 12/2 and the lady who was getting rid of it just wanted it gone. Guess it was her ex boyfriend who owned it. but he left the engine and took off a while ago.. Also got 60 gallons of diesel that was stored properly. seems good ,we will see. If it runs it maybe the best $$ i have spent. It will be a project for sure.
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I think it is cast iron piston, ball bearing, and idi. will get a picture of label loaded
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My twin has bushed bearings.....
Got a pic of the spec plate ?
Nice project !
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Very nice find! The original twins of this type are pretty smooth reliable power units. Congrats!
Field Marshall seems to have a fairly good reputation as far as Indian clones go.
dieselgman
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Engine tag. Does BB stand for Ball bearing? Also cip= cast iron piston?
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Very nice find! The original twins of this type are pretty smooth reliable power units. Congrats!
dieselgman
Thank you dieselgman. That means everything coming from you. Do you carry spares for this engine?
Are 6/1 parts compatible with the 12/2? Parts like valves and guides, piston rings , valve spring retainers and springs, and most importantly a starter HANDLE. They actually could not find it.. Thanks.
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My twin has bushed bearings.....
Got a pic of the spec plate ?
Nice project !
Thank you, Got the spec plate pic posted. I am not sure if it has bushed or tapered bearings yet. I ASSumed BB meant ball bearing. I have not looked at it much yet. We were beat after loading and unloading this thing yesterday.
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I am also not sure why the right side cylinder head is unpainted. Maybe a replacement at some point?
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Looks like the external spring on the govenor is missing.
I wish my twin were rated for 660 rpm.
Mine is rated for 1000 and after many hours of "play" I could not
get the thing to work at anything under 800 or so.
Your unit looks like it would work fine with a 5 or 7.5 kw head.
All things considered it will probibly pull about 5 kw.
Neat project !
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Thanks for the reply 32. Can you decode that tag? Is cip cast iron piston? Idi= indirect injection i think. What about BB ?
Is there anymore info on that tag that is worthwhile knowing? Can I figure out when it was built?
Yes the governor spring is missing along with the starter handle. They could not find them.
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I'm no help with the tag but I would think your idea of "idi" would be correct.
I think the bearing housing would be short with a roller bearing and longer with a bush type bearing
but I could be wrong.
Dieselgman would be your best bet for info and parts.
I would pull the heads and see what you have. You may get lucky and not have to go any further.
I will add that most of the time i spent on mine was not engine assembly. Time was spent on getting the
throttle linkage set up correctly. I am happy to say that after many hours of playing with it that the
cylinder temps are only a few degrees apart. I put a tstat on each head and am using a pump and an
aftermarket Honda type radiator and the setup works great.
If you read through my posts you will see the way I have mine setup.
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Thanks 32 coupe. I have pulled one head off and the cylinder looks like it should .the one piston looked about 3/4 the way down in the bore. No scratches, and I think I even see some faint cross hatching in the bore. I will need to be buying valve springs and the retainers for both heads as they have to much rust for my liking on them.
I am going to look at your thread tonite.
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Was this the unit I saw on FB Marketplace in CT?
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Yes and what a $hit show it was. They listed it for $100 and they had every idiot in ct offering $2000 or more for it without even seeing it.. Of course these are the guys that never show up. So now owner thinks they hit the lottery.. So i left it alone for a week, then messaged them back and asked if they still had it. They did. I laughed and said I will be there the next morning.
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BB means bushed bearings. CIP means cast iron piston
If it has "ball bearings" it would say TRB for taper roller bearings.
Looks like you found one built likely close to the original lister specs. That's not a bad thing.
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So did you get it for the original $100 asking price? Hell of a deal if it is a runner.
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I paid more than $100 for it.. This lady was left with a mess. And I was not going to be the one to take advantage of her. I gave her more than enough to surprise her well still getting a decent deal.. As far as a runner, no I could not bring it home and start it up. It needs the top end at minimum taken apart. With the open rocker cover and not much oil in the rocker areas it has some rust. After pulling one head it looks like it could be a runner pretty easily.
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Very nice find! The original twins of this type are pretty smooth reliable power units. Congrats!
dieselgman
Thank you dieselgman. That means everything coming from you. Do you carry spares for this engine?
Are 6/1 parts compatible with the 12/2? Parts like valves and guides, piston rings , valve spring retainers and springs, and most importantly a starter HANDLE. They actually could not find it.. Thanks.
Hi, we still have substantial parts stocks for these... the majority of the 6/1 parts will service a twin 12/2. We have not dealt directly with the Field Marshall brand, but yours most likely will conform to the Lister designs. No more twin engines remain in our USA stocks, but we do have quite a few singles available here. dieselgman gsj@gci.net
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Is the little broken piece in the unhappy smilie face going to cause issues running besides loss of some compression?
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another pic cleaned up a bit
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I don`t think that little chip will cause any problems, provided the piece that broke off has not caused damage to the piston or cylinder bore. The damage may have happened before assembly.
Looks like there are no steel valve seats on this head. If I remember rightly the valves can be lapped until the head of the valves are around 40 thou below the surface of the head. After that steel valve seats need to be fitted. I`m sure 38ac will know the exact limits.
Bob
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As Bob said I wouldn't get too worried about that chip causing compression issues. I would worry about cracks from whatever broke it. Inspect it , grind it down smooth and if you want set the bump .001 close on that side.
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Thanks . This head was off before at some point in it's lifetime. There is some evidence of what looks like silver solder or braze repair on one side of the head. Looks like they were trying to fix some tiny porosity holes. Not sure.
I think it was broken then . No marks on the piston or anywhere else. And it definately imo could use new seats. The valves are more like .080 below the head surface. And there is also no valve job there. just one 45 degree angle it looks like.
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I'm not near my spec sheets, I'll post it later
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I think #1 cylinder has been taken apart in the past for whatever reason. #1 head gasket measures 120mm and #2 116mm. It is the 114mm bore engine so I assume the 116mm gasket is correct. Bores look good. Maybe the 120mm gasket is what was included in the spare parts kit..
I also ordered the George B engine CD. Can't wait to get that.
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Don't get too wrapped around the axle with regard to valve depth. If needed, just grind the valves and seats to fit. Adjust the bump clearance to achieve the proper compression ratio. No biggie.
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I do not want a diesel engine like a kubota and others that have to run in there sweet spot of 2800 rpm. That is to fast for me to want to listen to. For me 2200-3000 rpm is a high speed engine esp for diesel, and dont want to listen to that racket.
Don’t want to listen to racket :) What about the Listeroid popping and clunking noise? The quietest project I’ve built was the Kubota D1005 powered, direct drive, 1800 rpm genset. This unit was much quieter than any loaded listeroid I’ve heard. That pop pop pop pop… The GM-90, 6/1 that I had drove me nuts. The exhaust system alone would have been something to quiet the exhaust noise down. Before I got rid of it I was thinking of digging a hole and make an underground muffler. Been around lots of Listeroids and GM-90’s in the days.
There was one GM-90 engine that Mike Monteith imported in very few numbers that I wish I bought. It was a mini version of the 6-1. I believe it had heavy 16” flywheel’s.
That was one cute engine. I believe it ran about 1000 rpm. It was rated at 3hp. The tiny thing still weighed 300 lbs or more.
Keith, it’s ok, you’re still welcome to come over at the other forum. Edited
Seriously, that was a find. And, you’re at the right place to get it up and operating. Best of luck and looking forward watching the build.
Take care,
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Henry the Kubota isnt going anywhere :). Just getting the top end cleaned up on this 12/2 and see how well it runs if at all.
Deciding on whether to get a good valve and seat replacement job. Or run it as is with cleaned up seats after cleaning..I ordered George's Listeroid CD. That should give me the basics and hopefully a bit more.
I still check in at the darkside everyday as you put it. :o Once I am ready to start putting this thing back together I can post some pics there as well.
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I think cujet’s suggestion is a good one. Get it running first and see how everything goes first.
Glad hearing that you’re keeping the Kubota. Out of all modern small diesels, they are my favorite.
See you out there,
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Don't get too wrapped around the axle with regard to valve depth. If needed, just grind the valves and seats to fit. Adjust the bump clearance to achieve the proper compression ratio. No biggie.
Cujet I saw your post then I forgot to reply to it. Henry's post made me remember. But yes I think I am going to take your advice and go with it. Seems like the way to go for me right now anyway, on an unknown engine. Can always go back inside later if I need to or want to. So thank's.
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The valve recession spec is .055 to .100" Like any other engine spec Lister didn't pull those numbers out if thin air.. Added depth adds to the volume at TDC, more volume equals less compression, less compression means harder starting. Too little depth means valve interference with piston becomes likely. The cumulative effect of too much valve recession, a bit of rod and main bearing wear and a bit of crankshaft wear means compression gets low enough that the engine vecomes hard to start at lower temperatures. That being said it is up to the individual to place his own importance on adhereing to specs. Its not going to blow up in spectacular fashion if the valve depth is .0545" nor will it instantly turn from an easy starter to a hard starter when the depth passes .100" to .101"it is however important part of putting one together right. Also realize that my views on deals like this are not the same as an individual working on his own stuff trying to get it going a d if it doesnt work its HIS fault. When a customer's piece leaves here as rebuilt, that means it falls within all petainable specs. If it doesnt work as designed it is MY fault,LOL
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The valve to head clearance actually measures .065 intake and .067 exhaust. I measured a few times. Going to try and check bump clearance in the next few days. Hoping that comes in on the better end of specs as well. I should add that is for the number1 cylinder head. Edit just measured cyl #2 . .075 on both Int & Exh