Lister Engine Forum

Slow Speed Diesel Engines => Other Slow Speed Diesels => Topic started by: sirpedrosa on August 01, 2022, 08:13:47 PM

Title: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Lets see!
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 01, 2022, 08:13:47 PM
Gentles, distinguished forum members

As promised, I now start the topic about the Deutz MAH 914.

But first things first, the Hilux water pump seized a ball bearing, and so it took the opportunity to change the timing belt as well.

The pallet with the Deutz offset measurements is ready for tomorrow to start lifting it.

Lets see how it goes.

Gentles, please fingers cross.

A couple of pics to joy.

Cheers
VP

PS: this thread came from this one: https://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=9121.msg109521#msg109521
Title: Re: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Lets see!
Post by: mihit on August 02, 2022, 07:35:00 AM
Nice little donk, look forward to pictures of it.
Title: Re: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Lets go............
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 04, 2022, 02:58:32 PM
Gentles

Here we go... left home monday evening to village. Tuesday melt the fat, the shovel is not easy to maneuver (especially after 3:30), but could get all space clean... I mean clean with archaeology engineering, as you can see further.

I'll give you a set of 35 pics. There is more but the essencial to joy.

Forgive me just to not have a essencial vid of the extraction of the engine from its shed to the ute;

But younger son was helping, and He was so excited with the operation that he forgot to make the vid... saved by the bell the last pic with Backhoe loader man and owner (one of the girls).

Backhoe loader puted arm from upside down into shed and hooked the harness that I made to toke it out.

Pics are titled by order, please be patient...

1 - Cutting Blackberry bushes - AGAIN...
2 - Starting archaeology... with shovel! 3 HOURS SHOVELING!
3 - First find: exhaust pot and an old oil can. And 3 old piston rings.
4 - Ha, Ha.... the ignition key!
5 - The archaeology pile of dirt.
6 - One fire salamander...returned to the wild (Im very conservative of any animal kind).

Cheers.
VP

PS: The vid of water in sump is displayed in FB, among some pics, and DEUTZ Forum will have a few pics with link to here.
Title: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? next 6 pics...
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 04, 2022, 03:07:07 PM
1 - Another fire salamander...
2 - Half way is done... (the bottom of engine concrete stand already visible)
3 - The exhaust pipe is mine, only mine!
4 - last shovel of rubble... is it?
5 - Laid to the pile of rubble.
6 - Now what's next? Got torch and ATFCetone... hummm!
Title: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? more 6...
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 04, 2022, 03:51:15 PM
1 - HUau, 1st nut off...
2 - Ok, a break to confirm originality. Label with cast iron!
3 - Afternoon (and after dinner is twice sacrifice, but it must be done. Look at the shirt!). Only could save half of the fuel tank... but banjos are there. Do you get me?
4 - Surprise, surprise... engine has a mold of concrete around the sump. Let's go to primary and get masonry tools... heavy mallet and spick to break it free. (there is the answer why it still here! and not stolen... to scrap).
5 - The last one (nut) had to make his point to be the SOB. Pipe wrench is always the solution to those are stubborn!
6 - Now the SOB is out out of his bed... some pieces of rubble under sump to confirm it stays as it should, to extrat.
Title: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? More 6 pics
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 04, 2022, 03:57:37 PM
1 to 5 - detail pics of the german beast.
6 - Me, one of the sisters, and the loader man after putting it on the Hilux.
Title: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? More 6 to joy
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 04, 2022, 04:28:28 PM
1 - The grave of an engine... Who knows?
2 - All stuff and tools on board to the road...
3 - After 2h (170km) arriving at the stationary engine clinic!
4 - Let's see the how is the inside body, on open the crankcase door? Last nut... Hummm oil and water!!!!! STOP, STOP! Open the sump drain bolt!
5 - About 1/2 dozen liter of water inside! (SEE VID AT FB (STATIONARY ENGINE ENTHUSIASTS); https://www.facebook.com/100001713712882/videos/pcb.5779948948703339/993367731335776 (https://www.facebook.com/100001713712882/videos/pcb.5779948948703339/993367731335776)
6 - the inside has a good look... Id like to see the same outside..... But time and weather is ruthless!
Title: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Last 6... But not the least!
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 04, 2022, 04:55:55 PM
1 - Crank and rod looks ok... because oil was above water.
2 - Injector clip is out... but injector body is stuck.
3 - Pulley off;
4 - Crank boss off;
5 - Fuel filter assembly off;
6 - Hopper lid to tank colling off.
Title: Re: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Lets see!
Post by: ajaffa1 on August 04, 2022, 11:36:41 PM
Well done VP, you have been very busy. Looks like the makings of a very good engine, You may need to buy it a new fuel filter!

Bob
Title: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Lets see!
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 04, 2022, 11:40:14 PM
Hi Bob, Gentles

Only a fuel filter? Im afraid of the injection circuit; pump and injector.

Two valves for shure.

Hope not to send it to scrap.

Cheers
VP
Title: Re: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Lets see!
Post by: broncodriver99 on August 04, 2022, 11:48:08 PM
Nicely done! Looks like the prize at the end was well worth the effort. Looking forward to seeing if you can bring it back to life.
Title: Re: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Lets see!
Post by: ajaffa1 on August 05, 2022, 08:43:34 AM
Hi VP, I would not be too worried about the fuel pump and injector, the rust will only be on the outside. The internals may be seized up with evaporated diesel but should be OK. strip them from the engine and soak them in a mixture of diesel and Automatic transmission fluid for as long as you can, if you can heat the solution even better. Don`t heat them on the kitchen stove, you will get in trouble and probably burn your house down. Try to find a small gas/electric stove or use the barbecue.
Valves should not be a problem, there are sure to be equivalent valves used in more modern engines. How do the valve guides look? You can always ream them out and use a slightly larger valve stem, not ideal but ok if it is only going to be a working display model.
Very jealous of your find, nothing like that in Tasmania.

Bob
Title: Re: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Lets see!
Post by: cobbadog on August 05, 2022, 12:08:30 PM
Well done on the recovery og this special little engine. You may be surprised at how little it will need to run again. As stated, what it looks like on the outside may be bad but inside still good. Thanks for the pictures.
Title: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? More bits out!
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 05, 2022, 06:17:16 PM
Gentles,

Another day fighting stress (I mean wrenches and hamer).

Pics by order:

1 - Deutz won a new tool... a braker bar.  ;D ;D ;D
2 - Engine choose: Nut or stud? either!  ;D ;D
3 - Doesnt mater... head is off
4 - Push rods are off;
5 - Piston crown looks great, genuine part, and dated 9/86;
6 - Liner looks great
Title: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? More bits out!
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 05, 2022, 06:28:53 PM
Another half dozen:

1 - Rocker assembly with improvised (on the fly) flat wrench tail;
2 - tail detail...  ;D ;D
3 - Rocker assembly off;
4 - Exhaust valve circlip (exhaust valve has a greaser, so wasn't stuck);
5 - All bits recoverd;
6 - Comparing Deutz valve with Lister valve;
Title: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? a few more
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 05, 2022, 06:31:45 PM
1 - Intake valve spring, collets and spring carrier;
2 - Head is almost empty.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Lets see!
Post by: ajaffa1 on August 05, 2022, 11:47:38 PM
Nice work VP, everything looks to be in good condition and just needs cleaning. Looks like one of the pushrods is bent, probably from badly adjusted tappet clearance. Be careful when straightening it, some push rods are solid others are steel tubes with toughened inserts in each end, very easy to crush the tubular variety when straightening!
Keep up the good work and great photos.

Bob
Title: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? First a word to Bob
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 06, 2022, 12:45:39 AM
Bob, Gentles

Clean and derust! Ill save as much as I can. Same history I said about the 12/2.

Think that bent pushrod was made by someone that tries to turn it over - full turn - after intake valve were stuck. This ones are steel tubes and thin!

And yes, Im back from downstairs (nothing like the evening to give me focus). And yes here we go with more good pics.

Cheers
VP
Title: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Once upon a time a valve stuck.
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 06, 2022, 01:07:03 AM
Gentles

Here we go... again!

Remember that hydraulic press I made? Oh yes, gave it a dust clean tonight. Take a good look.

The first bang gave me a chill in the spine, thinking about what had brake. If the press or the valve. After all was just the valve going down.

Pics by order:

1 - Begin with 3 12mm nuts to catch momentum, just in case...
2 - After 2 bangs needed to take a nut out;
3 - After a few squeaks and some drops of wd40, and rests only one nut;
4 - And the brass nugget made it flat to the guide;
5 - A good travel down!
6 - Now a brass nut to go down with stem;
Title: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Once upon a time a valve stuck.
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 06, 2022, 01:12:16 AM
A few more...

1 - Now a 8mm bolt after brass nut, and it came off.
2 - Not as bad as anticipated;
3 - Head is getting better.

PS: ANYONE CAN TELL ME IF I PRESS DOWN THE PRE CHAMBER IT PUSHES ALSO THE INJECTOR OUT?
Title: Re: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Lets see!
Post by: ajaffa1 on August 06, 2022, 09:41:16 AM
Hi VP, I have no idea how that pre-combustion chamber is held in place. It might well be that you could use it to press out the injector but there is a chance that it has a thread on it and is screwed in place. Feel free to give it a sharp tap with a copper faced hammer and see what happens. I would not be putting it in the press.
I would be refitting the valves and putting the cylinder head back on. Put about 10mm of oil in the cylinder and rock the engine into compression, hopefully the hydraulic pressure will blow the stuck injector out of it`s housing.

Bob
Title: Re: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Lets see!
Post by: cobbadog on August 06, 2022, 11:56:03 AM
It can only be a guess to say yes push down on the pre-combustion chamber to push the injector out but I would also want to make an adaptor o fit under the injector so that a small amount of lift could be applied as some pressure on the pre-combustion chamber. Again I woul make an adaptor that would fit nicely around the chamber but not touch the raised section.
Lots of pre-soaking and maybe some or a lot of heat to assist in it's removal.
Title: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Nice tips always wellcome!
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 06, 2022, 01:20:21 PM
Bob, Cobba, Gentles

Thanks for your tips, always related to the topic.

As far as my research got, I think prechamber is hold in by injector nozzle cap nut, with copper washers among there.

Let see some pics about (Still need shop manual);

1 - The injector body (pic from net, off course, mine is worst);
2 - The fuse holder and nut;
3 - The prechamber on place;

Now lets see: In this case fire holes are opposite fuse hole, therefore...the right pre chamber will be...

4 - this one... is it? As you can see there is a hole to the fuse in front of fire holes;
5 - Its the same prechamber, but it has another fuse hole behind fire holes (and missed the dowel to align fuse hole);
6 - Diferent view of prechamber.
Title: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Prechamber...
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 06, 2022, 01:25:13 PM
Now we can compare another model to see difference.

I can see is the outer diameter (thinner than mine) and length of pre chamber.

Thoughts are welcome.

Cheers
VP
Title: Re: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Lets see!
Post by: ajaffa1 on August 07, 2022, 12:21:00 AM
I`m with Cobbadog, lots of soaking, maybe a little heat. Only apply pressure to the outside edges of the chamber (have a look in your box of sockets, one of them might be the perfect size).
Go easy with the press, good luck.

Bob
Title: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? More stripping!
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 08, 2022, 01:57:23 AM
Bob, Gentles

Thanks, again for your tips.

Let the head under pressure at press with that right socket, but nothing moved along the day.

Made a ride with #1 (see other thread) and at evening give a visit to the german iron. Governor linkage came off, and fuel pump too!

All to much rusted! Lets see how things will get after clean.

A few pics to joy.

Cheers
VP
Title: Re: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Lets see!
Post by: cobbadog on August 08, 2022, 11:48:19 AM

if your injector is the same style as in reply 23 then pressing it out from that side appears to be the way to go. Keep soaking and a small amount of pressure and maybe introduce some heat. Even heating and spraying with WD40 to get it to draw in deep and quicker. If still no joy then more heat is how I would aproach it
Title: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Prechamber pushing injector
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 08, 2022, 02:52:14 PM
Cobba, Gentles

The injector is that you can see at reply 22 (mine more rusted, as you can see at 18).

I found there is a notch at injector hole - under feed thread - thats goes all way down (did you notice that prechamber notch?) to set both prechamber and injector.

Its well soaked witd ATFCetone, and the metric 23 socket is the right measure to put under the press.

Wilst that am amusing with other bits.

Cheers
VP
Title: Re: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Lets see!
Post by: ajaffa1 on August 09, 2022, 08:59:08 AM
Hi VP, if all else fails you can dismantle the fuel injector where it is, remove the inlet nipple, then unscrew the injector body from the stuck injector nozzle. Remove the internal working parts inside the injector nozzle and place in a jam jar full of diesel.
I don`t know what thread there would be in the injector nozzle but it is probably BSP, NPT or Metric fine, if you can find a piece of suitably threaded rod you can probably pull it out from above using a large washer and nut.

Bob
Title: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? disaster striked
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 10, 2022, 10:08:47 PM
Gentles

Mechanic job without the book is a good recipe to disaster.

Neither taking all care could avoid it (for my point of knowledge).

The injection pump was going too well on stripping... just, but just last thing was the plunger and plunger guide to come off.

The plunger was very stuck, and put it under the press... and puted force inside the hole instead at the hedge. IT BROKE!

Some pics from my very sad day!

Cheers
VP

PS: Damn stupidity!

Title: Re: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Lets see!
Post by: ajaffa1 on August 10, 2022, 11:43:51 PM
Hi VP, a sad day indeed. However, if the injector element was that badly stuck that you had to put it in the press the chances are it was already damaged beyond repair. The slightest wear or corrosion in an injector element makes them unusable.
I hope you can find a replacement.

Bob
Title: Re: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Lets see!
Post by: cobbadog on August 11, 2022, 07:27:23 AM
OOPS big time. Sorry that this has happened after all your very hard work in collecting it and stripping it to this point. Do you think you will be able to get another one?
Title: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? disaster striked - replacement
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 11, 2022, 08:30:30 AM
Bob, Cobba, Gentles

It had the tip corroded - but only saw it could be saved (dont want a Ferrari) after break it.

Was made it carefully and I ended to put the wrong roll pin punch, IN THE WRONG PLACE.

I can source another one here: https://www.historische-ersatzteile.de/pumpen-mah-mih-motoren (https://www.historische-ersatzteile.de/pumpen-mah-mih-motoren)

But its expensive anyway, and I hate to breke things.

Cheers
VP
Title: Re: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Lets see!
Post by: ajaffa1 on August 11, 2022, 11:15:49 PM
Don`t feel too bad about making a mistake. The only person that has never made a mistake has never made anything at all! Very glad to see you can buy a replacement element for around 90 Euros plus delivery. I will happily give 25 Euros towards the replacement, perhaps some others will do the same.

Keep smiling
Bob
Title: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? What matters!
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 11, 2022, 11:22:52 PM
Bob

I appreciate you cheers me but, its not the value... it's the stupidity I had make! thats the point.

Now I'm making a 60mm ring spaner to withdraw the flyes.

I got to strip it to make the replacement inventory and source parts.

Cheers
VP

Title: Re: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Lets see!
Post by: cobbadog on August 12, 2022, 05:34:34 AM
Try not to be hard on yourself. We have all made mistakes and by doing so we learn by them. In time we hope to see some more progress as it happens. Stay calm and continue with the great work you are doing.
Title: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Rod and piston off, and governor
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 13, 2022, 12:30:42 AM
Gentles

A few more pics os the disassembly of the german.

(Damn, that plunger still knocking my head... and in my hart!)

It is in good shape inside - at first glance.

Big end crank need to be polished.

Babbit looks ok, just some wearing, and it has a hole at place of oil from pump channel.

Small end I think will need new bushing.

Piston has 2 rings stuck.


Cheers
VP
Title: Re: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Lets see!
Post by: ajaffa1 on August 13, 2022, 10:03:26 AM
Hi VP, that all looks good, I`m a little bit surprised by the hole in the big end bearing shell. It looks like a manufacturing fault, very unusual in German made machinery. Everything else looks ok, the stuck piston rings are probably due to it having sat idle for so long, soak them and they should free up.
Is the little end bearing brass/bronze or white metal? White metal is no problem, brass/bronze sometimes require reaming to size after fitting, not something you can do at home without specialist equipment.
Stop worrying about the injector pump! :)

Bob
Title: Resurrection of a Deutz MAH 914, 1952? Lets see! Oil pump pressure
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 13, 2022, 10:20:52 PM
Bob, Gentles

From my point of view its not a manufacturing fault, but if you give atention to the big end journal and the oil hole we can figure out that fault match with the cicle of stroke of the oil pump. So I think oil pressure maybe did that.

Just my 5 cents.

Cheers
VP

PS: Yes that damn IP still hamering my mind!