Lister Engine Forum
Lister Engines => Listeroid Engines => Topic started by: Listerational on February 11, 2022, 04:32:44 PM
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Greetings Fellow Lister Enthusiasts,
I was wondering if someone would please give me some guidance about the muffler on my 10/1 Listeroid?
I currently have the generator installed in my garage and have a muffler vented through the roof. I am installing solar panels on the roof so the muffler needs to be removed. The generator is about 3' from the garage wall so I should be able to vent it out of the wall. My question is, Do I have to put an elbow on the muffler and turn it up after it exits the garage? I would rather not because then everything that comes out of the muffler will land on the solar panels.
Thanks for the help.
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I don't see why it needs to face up. I think that's just to divert the exhaust away from people on the ground. Both of my listeroids have mufflers that exit horizontally, just like a car.
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I likely going to have my 12/2 I beam frame bolted to the concrete floor in my shop and run exhaust through the wall as well. Does anyone have tips for insulating the pipe so there is little to no heat transfer as well as keeping weather out? I've installed wood stove pipes before, you use a steel box that keeps everything away from the hot bits and the pipe was triple insulated as well.
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Re wall exit and muffler
@Listernational.....our listeroid is in an open shed, the exhaust exits through a wooden wall. The wall just has a big hole, there's plenty of clearance. From there, it goes to an underground baffled pit, thence through a 3" plastic vertical stack. All particulates are captured underground. In winter, a bit of steam exits in the exhaust. In dry weather, nothing is seen. the exhaust is quieter than the mechanical noise.
@ Tanman...........our Dursley 6/1 is in an engine room in my shop. It's bolted to a large concrete block. The exhaust exits through the wall. I will try to describe the method..... Exhaust exits the engine via a straight length of 2" automotive exhaust pipe. About a foot from the engine is a length of flexible exhaust pipe. Then more 2" automotive pipe that exits the wall. At the wall exit is a panel of heavy sheet metal about 18" square (it's screwed to the plywood sheathing) with the pipe going through the centre.....loosely fit. Riveted to the panel is a 1 gallon paint can with its lid on, so it is sealed at both ends except the holes for the pipe. The holes in the can fit the pipe closely and are sealed with high temp caulking......the exhaust pipe goes through that and out into a muffler made of concrete block. the sheet metal does not got and it all has been working quite well for about a year.........Does not rattle or vibrate.
Sounds a bit shade tree, but looks quite fine and works.
Of course, YMMV
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Tanman, I used short section of double wall 3 inch stove pipe where the exhaust goes through my wall, with a section of stainless bellows type flex before the wall. On the outside of the wall, I used some silcone foam weatherstrip material from McMaster.com to fill the space between the 2 inch exhaust pipe and 3 inch stove pipe. I then smeared high temp silicone over that to seal it weather tight. Still good after 12 years+. You mentioned an elbow; Id turn that down, not up. If exhaust fumes are an issue, read the next paragraph.
Listerational- I concur with Hughes's earth muffler approach as being a great way to eliminate soot and carbon. It removes the high pressure pulses so no soot or oil vapor will be pulsing out the pipe. There are lots of ways to build this with materials you might have on hand. I used a version of this, the leach field muffler, for my neighbor's DES 8/1 setup. That eliminates any hot exhaust and exhaust odors as well as sound- there is surprisingly little air flow once the exhaust is fully cooled by the earth and leach field rock. It was cheap to build while the septic leach field system was being built. Because of the leach field rock surface area/filtering this is one of the best methods where exhaust fumes might be a problem for nearby spaces.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
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Thanks to all for the excellent advice. The leach field sounds super easy for what you get: low noise and clean air. Would someone mind giving me a brief description of where I can learn more about building one? I am probably getting this all wrong but here goes; I turn my 2" metal rigid conduit down and before it enters the leach field put a piece of 3" pvc or noncorrosive pipe on the end and just let it exhaust in a bed of rocks?
May I ask, how does it remove the high pressure pulses?
Thanks for the amazing advice.
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i used 2 metal crawl space screens, and cut a hole thru the middle for the pipe. Screens keep critters out of the wall interior
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You might find this useful:
https://youtu.be/sMu5VRA8GLM
From a 2016 thread:
Re: DES 8/1 Propane Conversion project
« Reply #169 on: January 05, 2016, 06:14:46 AM »
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We also have a port outside the generator shed where we can screw in the stock "pepper pot" muffler; I used that initially so I could see the exhaust. It's a good idea for us to confirm our rich on full load situation with the pepper pot in place just to see. Thanks for thinking of that Gary.
Our leach field "earth muffler" is a 24" wide, 3.5 foot deep ditch 20 foot long filled with 3" rock (1 foot of dirt on top of some aluminum flashing). A section of about 6 feet of 2" ID pipe with holes cut on the sides and downward feeds the leech field. A section of 4" plastic perforated drain pipe leads out of the last 6 feet and up to a vent cap above ground. I'd be surprised if this was overly restricting the exhaust.
I will add that I've seen some videos of masonry mufflers (buried large expansion chamber), that they work very well and would also solve the soot on the solar panel problem. They just won't clean up the exhaust smell as well as the leach field method. I didn't invent it, I just appropriated it. The leach field is the ultimate but takes some digging.
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You might find this useful:
https://youtu.be/sMu5VRA8GLM
From a 2016 thread:
Re: DES 8/1 Propane Conversion project
« Reply #169 on: January 05, 2016, 06:14:46 AM »
Quote
We also have a port outside the generator shed where we can screw in the stock "pepper pot" muffler; I used that initially so I could see the exhaust. It's a good idea for us to confirm our rich on full load situation with the pepper pot in place just to see. Thanks for thinking of that Gary.
Our leach field "earth muffler" is a 24" wide, 3.5 foot deep ditch 20 foot long filled with 3" rock (1 foot of dirt on top of some aluminum flashing). A section of about 6 feet of 2" ID pipe with holes cut on the sides and downward feeds the leech field. A section of 4" plastic perforated drain pipe leads out of the last 6 feet and up to a vent cap above ground. I'd be surprised if this was overly restricting the exhaust.
I will add that I've seen some videos of masonry mufflers (buried large expansion chamber), that they work very well and would also solve the soot on the solar panel problem. They just won't clean up the exhaust smell as well as the leach field method. I didn't invent it, I just appropriated it. The leach field is the ultimate but takes some digging.
Great video. That leach field muffler system is quite nice.
I like the chimney on the roof of your generator building. Does that capture all of the (secondary) gases coming out of the side of your engine or do you pipe the gases out separately?
Thank you for sharing that.
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I replaced the reed valve on the main door with a 3/4 brass check valve, spring removed and oriented so that gravity is the closing force. That feeds a 3/4 heater hose to through the wall. I use the same for my 6/1. I'd rather vent it than gum up the intake, especially for the CA-110 diaphram type propane carburetor.
After the first summer, we revised this setup to increase the stack pipe diameter, and put a wind powered turbine type vent on top. We also added a cheap auto radiator fan with thermal switch from Amazon. This is because on the very rare absolutely windless days under full load, it would start boiling radiator fluid. The fan comes on only a few times each summer, so should last a long time.
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Sounds like you have good draft.
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Does anyone know the proper way to combine a 12/2 exhaust to one pipe through the wall? Would it need to be 4”?
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Don't know if there is a proper way, but i would look at someone's Harley and copy that, I'm sure those guys have got exhausts waxed. I don't think you need a 4" pipe either. My SR2 has a factory 2 into 1 manifold with a 2" pipe off that and through the wall
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Don't know if there is a proper way, but i would look at someone's Harley and copy that, I'm sure those guys have got exhausts waxed. I don't think you need a 4" pipe either. My SR2 has a factory 2 into 1 manifold with a 2" pipe off that and through the wall
Sounds good, my plan rn is to go with 2” and do a double chamber thing like veg built.
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@Tanman
That "double chamber" thingy muffler is still working good.
One thing that I recommend is a drain port at the bottom. Maybe screw on a 3/8 ball valve.
Just like and air compressor tank, these mufflers condense a lot of moisture from the exhaust.
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Thank you for the tip! There’s a propane tank refurbishing company not too far from my place, I’m going to see if they have any small tanks that weren’t worth fixing and use those most likely.