Lister Engine Forum
How to / DIY => Engines => Topic started by: KC7NOA on January 29, 2022, 06:56:49 PM
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I'm wondering if anyone has replaced a sr2 starter from ebay, like this one ..
133970436456
Sold by dB electric
Giving a part number of SLU0034
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Cant see an image to say if it will or not not know what part of the world your at as Ebay is worldwide and numbers wont match up.
Best thing to do is to ask the Seller that way you are covered if he says it will fit your engine and it doesn't then he is responsible.
Have you tried to do a conversion from Lucas part number to after market stuff?
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I can see the image:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=133970436456&_sacat=0
Yes from the picture, that looks to be what to be what your looking for.
However, be aware of the following:
1) Ensure the direction of rotation of the starter motor is correct, as Lister's definition of direction of rotation has caught many people over the years (NOTE! If your engine serial number has SR2A, the A indicates anti clockwise rotation)
2), You will need a spacer to go between the starter motor and bell housing, like so:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265239226729?hash=item3dc17d6969:g:evoAAOSwdjVg-bIX
This is for the HA series that use the Lucas CA45 starter motor, but the general shape is very similar to the SR engine.
3), Finaly confirm that the number of teeth on the bendix is correct.
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Looks like the tooth count is correct, but the cut on the leading edge -- the part that would hit the motor flywheel , are cut opposite than what the original is ...
When i get home ill be able to give some power to the new starter and verify rotation .. but i do not have high hopes that it is correct ...
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So it sounds as if you have bought the starter motor and and now you havea concern about its direction of rotation. If it is wrong then a message to the Seller should be able to sort that out but you will have to freight the starter back to him at your cost, usually, but that is a small price to pay to get the right starter.
Do you think the Seller will have the adaptor as well?
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I dont think it needs an adapter ...
Cone height is 1/2" Longer than original, and teeth are 1/4" longer
I did ask the Seller .. all he responded with was dimensions .. ignoring the question of CCW / CW rotation
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Well just bugger ...
https://youtu.be/O6pROz0Br7w
Where to get correct rotation
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Your engine number will tell you what the rotation is as described by Listard JP-2. What he ahs stated is if you have a the letter "Z" in your engine number than you have an anti clockwise rotation.
Now if it is your starter motor that you are unsure of then doing that test in the video will confirm which direction the new starter is running. I am not sure if the rotation can be reversed or not. So the next step is to confirm your engine rotation and if that is the starter motor that you ordered and they sent the wrong one then it will be up to the Seller to fix the problem.
So make contact with the Seller if it was your mistake by not stating the correct rotation and work together on you wearing the cost of returning the starter motor to him and then he supply the correct one.
You are aware that eBay support both Buyers and Sellers if there is an issue and they will read all correspondence from the purchase time to any messages sent so they can resolve any problems. If you ahve made the mistake own up to it and then work towards resolving it. Or if the Seller made the mistake then contact him and let him know and ask what he can do to correct the problem first. If no reply or a negative one ask one more time but include that if this cannot be resolved he will get negative feedback and that eBay will be contacted about the problem. This might take a short time if you have to go down this track but it will be a good result in the end.
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Soo, does it look like my original starter is CW or CCW?
https://youtu.be/C2gQmgkqCok
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Looking at the direction of rotation of the pinion gear on the original stater it is turning clockwise (CW).
With the new starterit was difficult to tell as an arm got in the way of seeing which way the gear was turning as it slowed down but feel it maybe anti-clockwise direction of rotation (CCW).
As I said not a clear view.
Now does your engine/serial number contain the letter "Z" ?
It sounds it would be very beneficial if you found a workshop manual for your engine and can find them on Google and there might be a thread on this Forum that can also direct you to one. I forget how Lister establish their direction of travel, from the flywheel end, I think or the crank handle end opposite the flywheel.
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This is the plate number
6354SR2A 23
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I used one of my kids tires to help show the rotation
https://youtu.be/qAhAz9bxmOY
What do you think of that Heather Boyd
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Listard-jp2 and I have told you already how to identify the rotation of your engine from the serial number so go back and read listard-jp2 reply then you will have your answer as to the correct rotation.
It appears that your new starter is rotating in a CCW direction when viewing the direction of the starter gear.
Now you need to double check from which end of the engine do Listers identify the rotational direction, from the flywheel end as I suspect or the opposite end.
Can you take a clear pic of the engine bay where the starter will fit so we know which side of the engine the starter fits onto? Is there a crank handle dog on the opposite end of the flywheel? This will confirm direction of your engine quickly.
My SR2 is CW at the flywheel and there is no 'Z' in the engine number which means the crank handle is CCW
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https://i.imgur.com/Edi5bU7.jpg
(https://i.imgur.com/Edi5bU7.jpg)
I see no "Z" in this ... unless its between the A and 23 ...
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I think some engines didn't have a Z, but rather had an A for anticlockwise, like his engine. My clockwise rotation SR2 has no suffix letter
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(https://i.imgur.com/1xcFp91.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NouAxbM.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XzXfZRm.jpg)
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I think some engines didn't have a Z, but rather had an A for anticlockwise, like his engine. My clockwise rotation SR2 has no suffix letter
Apologies for any confusion but the Z made an appearance when Lister became Lister Petter. The SR range was before the LP merger. Looking at your pictures your SR is Anti clockwise rotation ( the style of bellh ousing is the dead giveaway)
OP, your still going to need that spacer between the bell housing and starter motor I mentioned in my previous post.
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Listard-jp2, have you seen the videos of the new starter motor as yet? Does he ahve the correct one?
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I used a magic marker to count the teeth of the original ..(was quite rusted)
Count was 10 ... im sure of it. The one delivered was 11 ... so I started a return ... im sure its not the right one.
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What is all that white stuff in the pictures? Are you near the ocean / salt spray ??
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What is all that white stuff in the pictures? Are you near the ocean / salt spray ??
Ha .. ok,
It was 6 Deg F when i took these pictures in the morning ... it was frost falling out of the sky -- kinda like snow but not ....
The picture of the badge/IdPlate has frost on it too ... not rust
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Posted in error
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Hey, ... a simple question,...
Which is normal slow position?
On the speed controll has only two positions... hooked and, well not.
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Ok, im to the point that the roatation and tooth count is correct ...
I need the spacer ... but will the original studs be the correct length or will they need replaced with different lengths?
I already broke one stud off removing the original starter.
I can see the image:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=133970436456&_sacat=0
Yes from the picture, that looks to be what to be what your looking for.
However, be aware of the following:
1) Ensure the direction of rotation of the starter motor is correct, as Lister's definition of direction of rotation has caught many people over the years (NOTE! If your engine serial number has SR2A, the A indicates anti clockwise rotation)
2), You will need a spacer to go between the starter motor and bell housing, like so:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265239226729?hash=item3dc17d6969:g:evoAAOSwdjVg-bIX
This is for the HA series that use the Lucas CA45 starter motor, but the general shape is very similar to the SR engine.
3), Finaly confirm that the number of teeth on the bendix is correct.
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(https://i.imgur.com/5t0cKT9.jpg)
Wich way is operate and idle?
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That set up looks similar to mine but mine is not a governed engine as for a generator. Mine is a variable speed engine in a dumpy truck. With mine I can move that lever one way, let it go and it goes back to the idle position. Then if I grab that lever and pull it out and away from the block then the lever goes into the 'cold start position for easier starting in the cold.
So long as that lever can move freely then it should be ok to do a start up once you have your starter mounted and wired. Being a generator it may well want to go to full throttle first up to start generatin g power and not come back to a lesser speed until it realises that either no power is being used or under load. Maybe a good idea to be ready to shut it down quick if needed so take note of that lever and what it does when you start it up.
How are you going to remove the broken stud from the starter motor? I have drilled many out always very careful to find centre then drill out to being undersize to the thread. Then I use a very smal pin punch to collapse the last of the thread and it will wind out. Heat also helps along with some penetrating fluid of your choice. Heating and then squirting the pentrating fluid onto it helps it get drawn into the thread to aid in freeing it up.
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Still tryingto find a rig spacer ....
The starter I last received seems correct ... just sitting too deep into flywheel
I can see the image:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=133970436456&_sacat=0
Yes from the picture, that looks to be what to be what your looking for.
However, be aware of the following:
1) Ensure the direction of rotation of the starter motor is correct, as Lister's definition of direction of rotation has caught many people over the years (NOTE! If your engine serial number has SR2A, the A indicates anti clockwise rotation)
2), You will need a spacer to go between the starter motor and bell housing, like so:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265239226729?hash=item3dc17d6969:g:evoAAOSwdjVg-bIX
This is for the HA series that use the Lucas CA45 starter motor, but the general shape is very similar to the SR engine.
3), Finaly confirm that the number of teeth on the bendix is correct.
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Did you buy the spacer from Ebay? If not maybe make your own from a solid piece of alloy and shape it to suit.
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The number plate in the photo shows the engine as being an anti clockwise SR2 built in 1973. The letter A denotes the rotation. Lister always quote rotation as looking at flywheel.
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Original spacer set on new ... I think it's too thick for my new ...
(https://i.imgur.com/txx2vMn.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/PeXvJt5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZYy7U5Z.jpg)
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The spacer you have is for the 24 volt coaxial starter. For the starter in the photo you would need the thinner spacer. At a guess I would say it is around 1/2 inch thick.
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24v ... I was trying 12v on the original.
Know a part number of the spacer I should be looking for?
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The Lister part number for the thinner spacer is 202-26550
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Just a stupid yet obvious question. Have you tried your local starter/alternator rewinder? There may not be one in your area but here luckily there are still a couple of old school shops capable of rewinding a starter. May be worth pulling out the phone book and seeing if you have a local rewind shop. Even if worst case they can't fix it maybe point you in the right direction.
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It's not the winding that is a problem ... I think the magnetic field has degraded ... the gear is half way out and does not retract from the flywheel.
The starter had probably been overheated and collapsed the power in the alinco magnet.
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2 options in my book, re-instate the magnetic field as you would re-charge a magneto or take you spacer to a machine shop and have it milled down to size.
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well,
Gary sent me a spacer along with a rocker push rod .. the spacer does not fit my housing -- just slightly bigger. The spacer fits the starter nicely ...
I took the original starter to a shop -- the owner is 85yrs old and recognized the numbers as a starter from a boat. I'm like, yea .,.. that's a big possibility.
So he said he will return it look and operating like new -- good to me !!!
Honestly, i don't like not having sources for wear parts ... i have no idea how long ago this starter failed -- or why. I hope i can source a spacer for this china clone ...
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KC7
go easy. there is nothing that cant be done. Off course it ill coast, but you aim to get it running. Be patient, sort all out to the best solution you can get.
Cheers
VP
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Im back home and have found a manual of sorts but I need to find out how to compress it enough to post on the forum
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@cobbadog
Looking at the manual you provided, I was reminded of a boat I used to have circa 1973.
It had an SR2 rated at 12BHP continuous. On the side of the fuel control was a stop with a lead seal. Breaking the seal allowed the operator to advance the throttle to "WAR EMERGENCY POWER" I never tried that, but the engine could produce that 12 HP effortlessly. The heated air could be ducted to the cockpit and sure kept it warm.
Cheers
Hugh
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Nice bit of info there Hugh, It is amazing what can be found out on these Forums.
Will try to load another 2 manuals but one in each post in case it over loads the system
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Sorry the last one I have was titled A25 Lister Air Cooled but must be too large a file.
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@cobbadog
Looking at the manual you provided, I was reminded of a boat I used to have circa 1973.
It had an SR2 rated at 12BHP continuous. On the side of the fuel control was a stop with a lead seal. Breaking the seal allowed the operator to advance the throttle to "WAR EMERGENCY POWER" I never tried that, but the engine could produce that 12 HP effortlessly. The heated air could be ducted to the cockpit and sure kept it warm.
Cheers
Hugh
Apparently Spitfires had a seal like that too. Break the seal for emergency HP. Hence the saying "through the wire" If the plane came home with the wire broken, the engine had to stripped and rebuilt, which apparently pissed off the techies.
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Even more great information. Some Techies are just like big sheilas and whinging about anything that makes them do something for a change.
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Im still looking for a SR2 starter spacer ...
But i also had the original starter rebuilt at a local shop -- to a tune of 230$
I need to drill and easy out one broke off stud that is used to bolt on the starter and then i can give it another try ...
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Not sure if you can make your spacer rather than trying to find one for sale. With the removal of the broken stud, take your time to centre punch as close to the centre of the broken stud. Take your time when drilling even use a lubricant to help keep the bit cool. /start small and slowly increase the size of the bit until you are almost as large as you can go and not damage the internal thread of the engine.
At this stage I usually use a small chisel that I made from an old pin punch to collapse the remainder of the stud. I have never had success using ezy-outs. Once the thread starts to collapse you should be able to unwind the remainding thread.
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If you can get your hands on a set of left handed HSS (or similar) twist drill bits the job MAY be a whole load easier.
Take your time and get as central as possible with the pilot hole, go up a bit with the second, and then use the largest you dare. As it bites the left handed bit will be trying to screw the stud out, whilst developing a bit of heat down where you need it.
Plenty of penetrating oil too, I've been using 5 / 10% ATF in acetone since learning about on here a few years back. Butch rated the paraffin from the wash down tank in the same thread, as I recall..
If drilling into the stud the 'wrong' way does nothing, you've got the hole you were going to drill anyway
Cheers
Stef
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Good advice, but make your ATF/Acetone mix 50/50. It will work better
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Most mixes of acetone and transmission oil I have heard of is usually 50/50. Left hand drill bits are the go as well but if you only need them once in a blue moon is a bit pricey to buy a set. One guy said he used his hammer drill to do that but I would not advise that. Heat always is another good option along with the acetone mix or WD40 or similar product. Paraffin is a new one to me. I have heard and seen it but never tried using it in this situation. Anything and everything is worth a try.
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I have a 3/8" hammer drill ... and i can buy a set or reverse drill bits locally .. i seen them on the shelf behind the maned parts desk ...
Iv done this kind of work before with a magDrill .. but i no longer have access to that kind of equipment
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Finally got the broken stud replaced and the original starter installed ...
[img]https://youtube.com/shorts/6Aq6KDARAfM?feature=share/[img]
[url]https://youtube.com/shorts/6Aq6KDARAfM?feature=share/[url]
Video probably does not work
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https://youtube.com/shorts/6Aq6KDARAfM?feature=share
[url]https://youtube.com/shorts/6Aq6KDARAfM?feature=share/[url]
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At last our up and running with a small repair to do on the push rod, well done.
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Does this sound normal?
Or mains/wrist needing replaced?
https://youtu.be/3QayhMV03cM
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Should add ...
Replacing the pushrod was easy ... with valve up ... push valve down by hand .. while holding valve down push the pushrod off to one side, replace doing reverse order ... check lash and adjust if needed
My second cylinder was not firing from a fuel leak ...the compression nut at the injector/pipe/tube was loose ... letting fuel spray into oil .. turned almost 4 complete revolutions before it was tight ... seems like injector is ok
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Sounds like a typical air cooled diesel to me. All I hear is the diesel knock which is normal.
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Sounds right to me for an air cooled diesel as well. So long as you have been through the engine and done all the servicing like oils and filters and checked the clearances for the valves which it appears you have done all is good to go with a good battery. In cold weather you can use the decompression levers to make it easier on the starter motor and engage one cylinder at a time. Plus there may be a cold start position on your throttle that you were using to rev and stop the engine. To engage pull it out and away from the engine and rotate it. Once the engine is running put it back to its normal running position. This just adds a bit extra fuel for cold start. Nice engine, enjoy it.
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The air-cooled Listers we have on pumpsets at work are louder than that. I'd say it sounds normal
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On to the probable next problem ... I think this gen head needs new bearings... the tag is very faded ... any ideas?
[img]https://imgur.com/NZGsQeo[img]
https://imgur.com/NZGsQeo
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Sometimes you just have to take off the covers and get out some tools and start measuring.
Vernier calipers are your friend.
Sometimes your lucky and can move things around a get some measurement without disemboweling everything.
Often even if you cant find the numbers on a bearing, a supplier can sort you out just from the measurements.
My ST 10 head had nothing written on the bearings.
All my Chinese genheads now have Timkin or NSK bearings, And I know they are far better then anything, China was going to install.
Best of Luck.
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Yeah, strip it down, knock the bearings off and drop them on the counter at your bearing shop. Nothing too hard about that just a bit of time. Clean up the armature and look at the brushes and replace if you feel they are worn.
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Ok, ... I don't want to break this ... but how does this come off
(https://imgur.com/xYbVO9v)
https://imgur.com/xYbVO9v
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Sigh
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(https://i.imgur.com/xYbVO9v.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FMwSAmo.jpg)
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What do the bolts on the back do ?
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Not much yet ...
I think they hold and squeeze two halves together and grab the shaft ... as well as has a keyway...
I pried on the back ... ie , pushing twards the right .. only bending the heads some ...
(https://i.imgur.com/jQPcmCE.jpg)
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Looks like a taper fit pulley.
The bolts pull the pulley on to the taper.
I would try some heat.
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The bolts wont be there just for good looks. It appears that maybe those bolts hold the front section of the belt pulley. A clear picture of the front of the pulley would also help work out how it is removed. You might find the lot is on a taper but my feelings say not just a taper fit. do what you have done already and loosen all those bolts at the rear of the belt pulley to see if that section will move forward leaving the flat section on the shaft then there should be a nut holding the flat section in place and possibly on a keyway.
Dont force anything until we confirm what it looks like at the front end.
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I dont see much ...
(https://i.imgur.com/RNbigfJ.jpg)
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Yes, that is a taper lock pulley. There should be two threaded holes in the hub face that can be used to jack the pulley off of the sheave with bolts. The problem is someone has installed that pulley and sheave backwards so it is likely going to be difficult to get it apart. The bolts should be facing out so it can be serviced. Do the bolts in the pulley contact the snout on the generator if you back them out?
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Wire brush, sand paper, penetrating oil, heat and patience.
Gear puller ?
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Yes, they will contact the snout ... there is about a 1/4" clearance between hub and bolt heads -- just under
Yes, that is a taper lock pulley. There should be two threaded holes in the hub face that can be used to jack the pulley off of the sheave with bolts. The problem is someone has installed that pulley and sheave backwards so it is likely going to be difficult to get it apart. The bolts should be facing out so it can be serviced. Do the bolts in the pulley contact the snout on the generator if you back them out?
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do what you have done already and loosen all those bolts at the rear of the belt pulley to see if that section will move forward leaving the flat section on the shaft then there should be a nut holding the flat section in place and possibly on a keyway.
There is a allen screw that goes into the keyway... iv not loosened it yet ..
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Not seen or heard of this type of pulley but it sounds as though you are in between a rock and a hard place. Where is the allen screw? I would at least remove it if possible and start with the Lanox down there.
As suggested clean that shaft up to be free of all rust using a file, scraper and emery cloth. Is there a way of doing those 2 bolts up until they touch the pulley then put some packing in between the housing and heads and undo them to put a bit of pressure on the pulley lock system? Then it is time for some serious heat and a bit of tapping the pulley.
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I see how your saposed to pull this apart ...
Yep, some idiot put this on backwards ...
(https://i.imgur.com/e0G7vcN.jpg)
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As said, someone has put the pulley and taper-clock assembly on backwards
Obviously you can't get into the back to swap grub-screws from "tightening" to "loosening" holes. But whoever put it on wouldn't have been able to tighten the two taper halves against each other, either - as he couldn't get at the grub-screws
So, probably, it has been slid/tapped/hammered onto the shaft and is now retained in place by the grub-screw which is on top of the keyway? Possibly also another grub-screw at 90 degrees to that? That would be common practise. I would think getting that/them out may allow you to use a puller and get the pulley off the shaft
If it will move at all, and if you have access to a three-jaw puller - perhaps consider tapping it further along the shaft a millimeter or two so that you can clean the shaft properly before pulling it off
Good luck
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Good explanation Mike and suggestion as to how to get it apart. The best thing to get right first is the removal of the rust from the shaft.
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Iv bought some metric and sae Allen wrenches and 1/8th slips and 9/64 does not fit ....
What am I looking for?
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There is only one scrub screw ... what is 180 deg from the scrub screw is a split in the ring ...
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There usually is only one on a taper lock. It should be right above the key. That may be a metric hub. None of the metric allens fit?
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There usually is only one on a taper lock. It should be right above the key. That may be a metric hub. None of the metric allens fit?
No ... the 2 was small and the 2.5 too big
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If neither the Imperial or Metric keys fit then that grub screw is stripped from past users using the wrong size key.
The next thing to do is to drill it out. Drill it to being just under the size hole if you can see it or start guessing the size, drill it and try using a puller. If no go use the next size up drill bit. Once off and if you have damaged the thread re tap it the next size up and buy a new grub screw to suit.
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Just a comment on the above advice about 'drilling it out" . . .
While that is the last resort, of course, it may be worth mentioning that grub screws are hard - I have found they will resist drilling quite strenuously. I guess if it was heated until it glowed and then allowed to cool it might be de-tempered
If it really cannot be removed, what I would try next is:
Heat it up with butane or a gas-plant until it glows, then leave it to cool
spray INOX or your lube of choice all over it repeatedly so it has the best chance to sink in (heating the grub screw will have "burnt" some of the material between the screw and the body and a penetrant should now soak in better)
Find the allen key (metric or imperial) that is just slightly too large and cut a straight section off the arm of it with a nice square end
Using a small cutting disc on the angle grinder, cut a shallow groove in each of the six faces of the hex key/allen key
Use something small and pointed plus compressed air to clean out the hex on the top of the grub screw thoroughly
Then HAMMER your modified/butchered hex key/allen key into the top of the grub screw. It needs to be TIGHT
The put a big spanner or vice grips on the shaft of that allen key and twist
If that doesn't work - I guess drilling is next. You may like to research "left-handed drill bits"
Good luck
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Hi Mike, good advise but I have found a number of grub screws that are not as hard as they should be and using brand new quality allen keys in a grub screw that has never been remove from new and had them chew out. They have been soft and of Chinesium origin. So the replacements have been Australian made grub screws that are hard as you rightly posted.
If the OP's grub screw is already rounded out or stripped then it too must be soft so a drilling maybe the only option after trying to jamb a slightly oversized allen key in with a hammer.
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if you have to drill them out...
don't bring them to red hot, the relatively cooler surrounding metal will chill them and make them even harder than they started out to be.
if you can... sand off the paint or rust around the area where the set screw goes in, and then heat the area to a dark blue, make the area about an inch around if possible, all blue if possible and slowly let it cool by bringing the flame back a bit at a time over about a minute or so... then go get a cup of coffee or a beer (pick your poison)... wait until it is cool enough to handle.
then the little buggers will drill right out without much problem
also i cool my drill bits with water, i use a standard plastic pop bottle with an eighth inch hole drilled it in to dribble water and keep the bit cool.
never had one that couldn't be drilled out, if you anneal them properly first.
fwiw
bob g
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I think it's slowly moving .... I dont want to put alot of pressure on it
(https://i.imgur.com/EoW1v9i.jpg)
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Yes, there seems to be a small gap there now. Keep up the good work in being patient. You will win.
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Weell... it broke along the keyway ... need to replace the pulley...
How do I order an exact replacement?
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With these old engines most parts canot be b ought off the shelf. Not sure where in the world you are but you will now need to find a dealer in Lister parts or hope that a reader has a spare pulley. Put up a pic of what the pulley looks like now, it may be able to be repaired. Look online at the usual auction sites as well.
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With these old engines most parts canot be b ought off the shelf. Not sure where in the world you are but you will now need to find a dealer in Lister parts or hope that a reader has a spare pulley. Put up a pic of what the pulley looks like now, it may be able to be repaired. Look online at the usual auction sites as well.
I dont think the pulley is a Lister part -- i think the Generator head is a cheap China knock off -- but old, none the less ...
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Well, I found numbers
(https://i.imgur.com/A7huL53.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/INfe5pO.jpg)
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Yes, picture of the pulley would help
If it's just a pulley for an A,B or C-section belt - they're effectively "off the shelf" with systems such as Taper-Lok to attach to the shaft
if you know: Belt size (A, B. c etc), number of belts, diameter of shaft and dimensions of keyway - any company that supplies drive components can help you with pulleys and centre inserts such as a Taper-Lok or similar; and an machinist can bore/key-cut that centre insert to fit the shaft and the key
Picture will be a good start. Good luck
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If the pulley is still good you can buy just the center section.
I believe it is called a sheve.....others will know.
Ebay is good for old stock parts.
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The pulley had a crack in the toothed area ... not sure if it's ok
(https://i.imgur.com/nPsePhe.jpg)
Not a good picture of the pully -- sprocket.
It's a 22h200 SD R .... but im falling short on the part numbers for the sheve
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The pulley number comes up as an off the shelf TB woods pulley and looks to be available from many sources online, it is called a timing pulley because it is cogged. The numbers denote (22) Teeth (H) Heavy Duty (200) Belt width 200mm/2" (SD) Bushing type
The bushing number looks to be SD1-1/4V, is that correct? What are the rest of the numbers/letters? I believe that is a QD(quick detachable) series bushing. That comes up as a Martin SD size bushing for 1-1/4" shaft with a 1/4" keyway. Is the shaft of the generator 1-1/4"? That looks to be readily available as well.
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So is the pulley broken or the taper lock. I have not seen one before so not sure if the first part is meant to be in 2 parts. If the lead posted above does not amount to finding the part then that taper section would be repairable if not easily made on a lathe.
Definately a cog belt pulley with those teeth.
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There are 2 parts ... the inner part broke while I was trying to seperate the two ...
I'm still trying to find out what the generator head "IS" .... besides a permanent magnet generator that is synchronous at 1800 rpm
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It just may well be a Chinesium brand which will make it tricky to identify without a plate on it. It sounds as if that type of pulley is available so it should be able to be replaced, the centre part is an easy turn up on a lathe but the pulley if damaged will need to be replaced before it flys apart.
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The pulley number comes up as an off the shelf TB woods pulley and looks to be available from many sources online, it is called a timing pulley because it is cogged. The numbers denote (22) Teeth (H) Heavy Duty (200) Belt width 200mm/2" (SD) Bushing type
The bushing number looks to be SD1-1/4V, is that correct? What are the rest of the numbers/letters? I believe that is a QD(quick detachable) series bushing. That comes up as a Martin SD size bushing for 1-1/4" shaft with a 1/4" keyway. Is the shaft of the generator 1-1/4"? That looks to be readily available as well.
Sd1-1/4 seems correct,
1-1/4 shaft with 1/4" keyway
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Making progress, thenose is off ..
I think some one left out a oil soaked felt gasket...
(https://i.imgur.com/oyc8UEB.jpg)
But I have numbers on a bearing .... and it's bad .. it wobbles .
(https://i.imgur.com/VBcW42x.jpg)
88507 PEER ROMANIA
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Google "taper roller bearing on adaptor sleeve" Might be 35mm? Measure the outside diameter of the bearing & the diameter of the shaft, cut it off in pieces & buy another one from any bearing shop. It's two bits: A bearing with a tapered I/D and a sleeve with a tapered O/D and a nut to tighten it. Have a google - you'll see. They usually work in pairs "against" each other - so maybe there's another one at the other end too? Good luck
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Thanks for the extra info Mike about the bearing and lock ring. I was going to ask if it was a screw on or shrink fit lock ring. Only way off for that lock ring if hitting the outter edge with a cold chisel doesl expand it enough is to cut it off. But again heat might be you friend on it too.
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The realy rusted part reminds me of a lock nut on a f
4wd front wheel spindle ... with locking tab
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Thanks for the extra info Mike about the bearing and lock ring. I was going to ask if it was a screw on or shrink fit lock ring. Only way off for that lock ring if hitting the outter edge with a cold chisel doesl expand it enough is to cut it off. But again heat might be you friend on it too.
Cool. I'd encourage you to google around and look at SKF sites for taper sleeves etc - then you'll see what you have there
It's in the nature of bearing races that they are very hard - and brittle. Once you're sure you know what the bits you have are - you can geit it off the shaft by cutting it into pieces. the outer race will be easy - if you cut it in two place at 180 degrees, it'll just fall off. Ditto the lightweight cage and rollers. If you can undo the locking ring or cut it off - then the taper of the inside of the inner race of the bearing and the outside of the sleeve (the two tapers that lock together) will work in your favour. With a bit of penetrating oil and patience you may simply be able to tap the bearing last part - the inner race - in towards the windings. Even a mm or two will be enough to break the taper between the two bit so they'll come off the shaft.
the way to get your head around it is to think of the thread and the nut as "pulling" the tapered sleeve through the bearing to tighten it onto the shaft
Anyway, if you have to cut off the inner race - you can cut 90% of the way through it (so you don't cut into the shaft - although it won't matter if you do a bit) in three or four places and then give it a few decent smacks with a hammer and cold chisel to exploit its brittle-ness - and it should just fly apart
Wear goggles or face protection - bearing shards are unbelievably sharp
Good luck
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Good description of the lock ring and locking tab washer. I took a closerr look and agree that is what it looks like.
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Kinda looks like threads ....
(https://i.imgur.com/LXJ8Nnu.jpg)
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A little die grinder could get in there nice and close to clean up the thread then try to undo the lock ring. If no go a good smack with the cold chisel will release the lock ring to undo.
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The lock ring ( the thing with the fingers ) is still playable
The Nut ( I still think it's a nut ) is still stuck ... I know I have 2 24" pipe wrench, but currently can only find one.
So tried with a large set of vicegrips and one pipe wrench ... no movement yet. So I put some heat to the nut again and sprayed it with penetration oil ... then walked away.
I dont want to cut it off ... it might be a pain finding a replacement nut with the head still unknown to me as to who made the darn thing.
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The lock ring ( the thing with the fingers ) is still playable
The Nut ( I still think it's a nut ) is still stuck ... I know I have 2 24" pipe wrench, but currently can only find one.
So tried with a large set of vicegrips and one pipe wrench ... no movement yet. So I put some heat to the nut again and sprayed it with penetration oil ... then walked away.
I dont want to cut it off ... it might be a pain finding a replacement nut with the head still unknown to me as to who made the darn thing.
Fair call. But I suspect you'll find that the taper sleeve, the nut, the locking ring and the bearing are all just "off the shelf" components. If you took that photo to a bearing shop and asked them . . . .
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I have the sheave and bearing already on the way ..
I'd rather have a roller bearing - bearing, but iv got what's called a deep Grove bearing on the way
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I have the sheave and bearing already on the way ..
I'd rather have a roller bearing - bearing, but iv got what's called a deep Grove bearing on the way
I'd be surprised if your gen head was doing more than 3000 RPMs, so a deep-groove ball-bearing will be just fine. If you have bought a ball bearing and a housing - it may be that the dimension from the base of the bearing to the centre of the shaft - effectively your deck height - is not the same as the original unit as they will be a different kind of housing. Anyway, sounds like progress. I will watch with interest
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Good work on sourcing a new bearing and nut n lock ring. My mistake calling it a lock ring, your right in calling it a nut that is usually tightened using a "C" spanner. The same style nut is used on the rear stub axles on my David Brown tractor. The nut is the part that you can hit with the cold chisel to make it grow in OD and release from the thread with no damage to the thread. Even to the point that you can keep going around the nut and make a few "V" indents to make it let go. The same principle is used to release a round collr on an axle that is heated up and shrink fitted.
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I have not sourced a new nut yet ... but probably should
2 x 24" pipe wrenches with cheaters ... and it fought every mm of the way
(https://i.imgur.com/nVWlwWr.jpg)
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To be honest, I think that nut is still good enough to go again. Once torqued up using the C spanner you only need to fold a tab over to lock it in place. If you do not have a C spanner they are so easy to make by tracing the outline of the nut onto paper and thi gives you the pattern. Then enough 3/16" piece of sheet steel and a cutter and a file and then a length of pipe on the end of a short handle.
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To be honest, I think that nut is still good enough to go again. Once torqued up using the C spanner you only need to fold a tab over to lock it in place. If you do not have a C spanner they are so easy to make by tracing the outline of the nut onto paper and thi gives you the pattern. Then enough 3/16" piece of sheet steel and a cutter and a file and then a length of pipe on the end of a short handle.
Also traditionally tightened with a cold-chisel and hammer - although perhaps I shouldn't admit . . .
However a new sleeve and nut will cost almost nothing and, being free of rust & having smooth surfaces, will take up an even, gradual tension to tighten up 'just nice" - just imho
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Yes, I have been guilty of using the cold chisel on the final drives of the David Brown tractor but they were quite large in diameter as well. It came with all the warnings of how you MUST tighten them with a C spanner so they are very tight. Ignored and tightened them as tight as possible using the same tool they were undone with, a cold chisel but a blunt one.
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I'm thinking a new nut would be best ... it came off hard to the last thread and they are flattened, so is the shaft thread. Possibly requiring a pipe wrench to get tight on the bearing -- probably not a good idea ... I would be clueless to how tight the nut was .. and perhaps that would not matter.
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To be honest, I think that nut is still good enough to go again. Once torqued up using the C spanner you only need to fold a tab over to lock it in place. If you do not have a C spanner they are so easy to make by tracing the outline of the nut onto paper and thi gives you the pattern. Then enough 3/16" piece of sheet steel and a cutter and a file and then a length of pipe on the end of a short handle.
I had to use 2 24" pipe wrenches to get it off.. and was hard to turn until it came off ...
I need to find out what size/threat it was to get it to a point that i can finger thread it on .. and use the lock washer to keep it from coming off.
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To be honest, I think that nut is still good enough to go again. Once torqued up using the C spanner you only need to fold a tab over to lock it in place. If you do not have a C spanner they are so easy to make by tracing the outline of the nut onto paper and thi gives you the pattern. Then enough 3/16" piece of sheet steel and a cutter and a file and then a length of pipe on the end of a short handle.
I had to use 2 24" pipe wrenches to get it off.. and was hard to turn until it came off ...
I need to find out what size/threat it was to get it to a point that i can finger thread it on .. and use the lock washer to keep it from coming off.
Pardon me for sticking my oar in . . .
But, unless I have mis-interpreted the photos, I'd say you have a threaded taper-sleeve-and-nut assembly on that shaft? Perhaps I have that wrong? If that is what it is, the sleeve and bearing will come off the shaft, and the sleeve, nut and locking-ring would be sold as a unit by any bearing supplier
Good luck either way
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I'm past the sprocket and sheave, ... bought a replacement sheave.
I'm trying to find a replacement for the nut ... maybe a 1-3/8 18 ... took it to a generator shop in town ... they said they didn't have one to replace it.
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Try the local bearing shop as it is part of a bearing adjuster. Or have a look online at some nut and bolt shops, you never know what will turn up.
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Sandblasted
(https://i.imgur.com/iA2YPan.jpg)
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Looks like I'm ready to freeze the shaft and bake the bearing to get a slip on install of the bearing
(https://i.imgur.com/9lHHXYe.jpg)
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What way are you intending to freeze the shaft and warm the bearing? On a small shaft I was able to put it in a plastic bag and hid it in the freezer inside overnight. Never got caught either. Then when it was time I was able to get enough heat from a heat gun for stripping paint. You don't need a huge variance but enough to do the job.
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My other knew what I was going to put in the deep freeze ...
Shaft hit 20deg and bearing was heated to 200 degrees in a shallow oil bath ... for a 180deg differential
Slid right on ... I even put the lock tab and nut quickly and tightened
(https://i.imgur.com/D73KGM5.jpg)
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Very well done, looking better all the time.
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Re: cooling/heating to remove bearing from shaft.
In commercial aviation, we sometimes encountered a wheel bearing stuck on an axel (think big, like 747)
The solution was to pack the axel in dry ice, the bearing remained at ambient temp. the bearing usually just slid off.
Dry ice is not that difficult to come by, locally, it's used for packing fish for transport via courier (sport fishermen)
Cheers
Hugh
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Good thinking Hugh. Our Club used a lot of dry ice to help shrink the cyliner liner in the Clubs big Tangye engine. Even then it was stubbourn but got it out in the end.
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I see why -- kinda -- why sprocket/sheave was installed backwards ...
Smarter to cut off the thin angle iron that holds the air cleaner
(https://i.imgur.com/XM8UxrT.jpg)
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Well, sheave is on in what I feel is the correct way ... im not sure if I have the belt too tight
https://youtu.be/rKwcno2wDkg
How much "shaking" can a generator take?
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Answer, preferrably none.
So what is causing the vibration, engine or generator?
Disconnect the belt and see if the vibration is still there, if so you need to sort out the source of the vibration in the engine.
If there is next to no vibration then the generator is causing the problem and possibly destroy it. Possible cause would be a bent armature so if it is the generator slip that out and test it for being bent.
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Honestly, I'm thinking the frame is acting like a turning fork ... the fuel tank up on top
https://youtu.be/BiYeFpKCaw8
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Doesn't look too bad in the video. If it is solid mounted to the fame you will certainly get some vibration from the Lister twins. The battery needs to be on rubber mounts or it will have a very short life.
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It does look good and sound right too in the video. The suggestion of mounting the battery tray on rubber is an excellent idea as any vibration with shake the seperator plates inside to the bottom of the case and dead short.
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I think that video stabilization in google/YouTube video processing is happening. The tire tread is shaking side to side .. but look stationary in the video.