Lister Engine Forum
Lister Engines => Lister Based Generators => Topic started by: Alan Hale on July 28, 2020, 07:07:01 PM
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got my Lister running for the first time in over 50 years
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What is a SO M?
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Is it possible to spin the genny with 24 v. battery? will it turn with 12v.? I want to start it again with the genny
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SOM:
Start O Matic
when you turn on a light in the house, the generator starts itself up, and turns off when you turn the lights off.
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Always wondered ... how does the system know that a light was turned on?
And how does it know when no power is being used so that it can shut down.?
Can this logic be replicated with a modern starter motor and more modern electronics and/or an arduino ???
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Turning any load on, pulls power through a relay, which initiates an pre-timed starting sequence, same relay shuts it down. All done with mech relays and time delays
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It's worth remembering that the Start-o-matics were actually called "lighting plant". Back in the 1930s, when they were designed, there were very few electrical devices - desk fans, lightbulbs and radiant heaters being the main ones I can think of, maybe toasters. All of these, when switched on, could consume enough DC current to trigger the generator. Try that with a smartphone charger!
Even as more modern equipment came along - TVs, wireless sets, phonographs etc. - these all had basic transformers & actual on/off switches, which meant they would consume some DC power to trigger the generator, and when switched off would consume nothing.
IMHO the best way to recreate a "SOM" setup now would be with a battery bank and sufficient inverter(s) to power your load requirements. Then sense the voltage on the batteries, and trigger the generator when that drops below a threshold; and switch off when it rises above a different threshold. As Lithium batteries get cheaper and more prevalent, this will IMHO become a fairly normal thing to do. Add in solar panels, micro hydro, a wind turbine, etc., and you could save yourself a few pennies on the old electrickery bill... whether it'd ever pay for itself, is another matter altogether. Although frankly, I'd do it just for the fun of it...
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Glort
" I have a device that does exactly that. Couple of them actually.
They are a voltage dependant relay. I have one on my hot water system. When the solar pushes the the mains voltage up to a programmed level which indicates sufficient power, the relay turns on the hot water. When the power drops or can be set to work in reverse, it switches off. They will run on AC or DC and are mains voltage rated."
Interesting device, do you have a picture or maybe an ebay link.
Rigging a generator to fire up on low battery voltage would be a nice feature.
I realize that many inverters have this feature, but it would be nice to have a separate device for project use.
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Glort, thanks !
Oh, and they are DIN rail mount too! Excellent
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Hello , I would like to get me engine to start with my Staro matic is this possible without the 240 v wiring conected I have replaced most if the wires that were cut off when it wes removed from a shed The engine runs well but I am to old to swing it Alan I would gladly pay for any help Alan 07747102305 or hudsonman123@gmail.com
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Hi Alan,
I don't think it's possible without the 240v wiring, unless you're prepared to sacrifice the "o-matic" bit. The Lister lighting plant puts 24 volts DC onto the mains wiring. When a light is switched on, the small amount of load drawn by the light bulb is sensed by the SoM box, which then goes into it's startup sequence. Once started and outputting 240v, if the lightbulb is switched off the SoM box detects the LACK of load, and shuts the engine down. So... you need at least SOME 240v wiring for the system to work as intended.
If you can live with using a button or switch to start it, then I don't suppose that would be terribly complicated to wire up, and you wouldn't need the 240v circuit at all then.
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Alan if you search for Lister CS electric start - here or Google - you will see several vids that are simple & good. They are always an option if you aren’t confident with the starting components of your SOM and don’t care about keeping it original
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Is it possible to spin the genny with 24 v. battery? will it turn with 12v.? I want to start it again with the genny
A motor will be quite happy with more voltage, for short periods. The solenoid, less so. Heaters (OK, not on a Lister anyway) will cook in an instant.
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Alan
Here is a diagram for a 2.5 kW SOM with the SOM box removed and converted to push button start.
(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10039/normal_2_5_Wiring_23.jpg)
(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10039/normal_2_5_specs23.jpg)
The red wiring is the battery charging and those bits where enclosed in the SOM control box which you dont have.
I would not bother with those bits and just use a small mains operated 24volt scooter charger instead ebay item no 174131561726 The SOM system for your model is 24volts.
Alternatively you could just fit a push button switch ebay item no 233309463589 to the contactor. Press the button when up to speed pull back the solenoid bell crank lever and when the engines running nicely, jam a bit of wood under the bell crank to keep the engine running. To stop the engine remove the bit of wood.
Mick
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Hi Alan, I have a much later model Lister SOM connected to my workshop. I have a single 60 watt incandescent light bulb, with a switch connected across the 240 volt output. To start it I just turn on the switch, once it is up to speed, I then close the main circuit breaker and run whatever I like off it, including sensitive equipment like computers, TVs and telecoms equipment. To stop it I turn off the main circuit breaker and then turn off the switch to the 60 watt light bulb. Works a treat, cheap and simple.
Bob
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Alan
On closer examination of your picture it appears that the box on top of the generator is the wrong way round.
(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10039/normal_2_5_kW_top_box.jpg)
Mick
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Hello yes i have noticed that . What I really need is the names of all the components on the box over the generatortheir are afew wires off and i dont know where they go . Thanks for your help Alan
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Interesting car in the back ground. Are you sure these photos haven't been setting on top of the unit for the past 50 years as well? ;~)
Nice looking job on your lighting factory. I want to hear it run too.
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Alan
Take a few pictures of inside the top box post then here and I will identify the components for you.
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Hello That sounds good to me Have you got a wiring diagram please