Lister Engine Forum

Lister Engines => Listeroid Engines => Topic started by: tyssniffen on May 11, 2020, 09:57:28 PM

Title: Does water flow around 6/1 posts?
Post by: tyssniffen on May 11, 2020, 09:57:28 PM
So, yes. Water flows around the posts... but does it have to? 

As I continue to fight with my 6/1 gasket (yes, I know about taking it to a machinist and getting it flattened), Iím wondering if I could use gasket goop *just* around the posts, which seems to be where my water problem comes from. 

Title: Re: Does water flow around 6/1 posts?
Post by: veggie on May 16, 2020, 02:55:16 PM
Mine leaked the same way. The only solution was to modify the sleeve protrusion.
I tried various gaskets and sealers but in the end they are just Band-Aid solutions.
The sleeve protrusion must be minimal. Say 0.003 to 0.005 in.
Title: Re: Does water flow around 6/1 posts?
Post by: gusbratz on May 20, 2020, 04:21:53 PM
to answer your question I don't think water flows around the posts. it just leaks across the heaad gasket and fills up the cavity around the stud. it can't get out the bottom and into the crankcase because of the base gasket so it leaks out of the top around the nut.I went with a copper gasket for the head gasket and homemade Garlock for the base . the coolant leaks out of the top of the stud around the nuts. I had it on and off a few times and it still leaks when it gets cold out. I may try putting a copper washer under the nuts on my head studs.
Title: Re: Does water flow around 6/1 posts?
Post by: mike90045 on May 21, 2020, 06:42:24 AM
..... I may try putting a copper washer under the nuts on my head studs. 

That may just hide the problem until the studs rust through
Title: Re: Does water flow around 6/1 posts?
Post by: vdubnut62 on October 07, 2020, 04:08:56 AM
Well, I had a 1947 John Deere "B" that used lead washers under the head stud nuts to keep water out of the valve cover and thusly the engine oil, and the studs had lasted fifty years at that point with no ill effects.  I did lose a brass pushrod tube that flooded the engine with coolant though. I was also thermosiphon and the coolant requirements were basically just clean water.
Your mileage  may vary.

Title: Re: Does water flow around 6/1 posts?
Post by: BruceM on October 07, 2020, 07:23:58 PM
I've had a bad head casting that had a pinhole leak where the post holes were bored, a few inches down. So that happens too.  Also, hair line cracks in the head casting aren't unheard of.  It's Rajkot roulette, so a stand up dealer is important.  I suspect a small minority of Rajkot heads or cyliners are flat and without excessive liner protrusion and thus require no attention.

You can do the farmer fix for the liner protrusion if you are VERY careful; I did mine with a large file, with a disk sander for the finishing. No more than 0.005 inch protrusion is desired.  A feeler gauge next to the liner lets you easily feel the height of the edge to be removed.

You will also have to flatten the head and top of the cylinder, which can be done with silicon carbide sandpaper glued to plate glass, over foam shelf liner on a cast iron saw bench top.  Start with 80 or 100 grit, it will take a while and it won't be that coarse by the time you are finished.  Move the head in an orbital manner, check progress via straightedge and feeler gauge.

By torquing down the head on an over-protruding liner, over time  it will become concave.  Flattening it again takes a lot of elbow grease as described above or a trip to the machine shop.

You can get a couple hundred engine hours out of kludges like a thin smear of high temp silicone around the leaking bits of the cylinder casting. The Rajkot copper/asbestos gaskets, sealed with Permatex Aviation Gasket sealer diluted with a little alcohol, will seal the best when there is excessive liner protrusion and a poor fit from head to cylinder top.  Without sealer, they will weep through the asbestos.  I wasted a lot of time fiddling with gaskets and sealers until I finally got fed up and fixed the excessive protrusion. (I had about 0.016")

I highly suggest fixing the underlying problem- flatness and fit between head and cylinder.  It's critical in a diesel, and not hard to get it fixed right, either by hand or by machine shop.
Title: Re: Does water flow around 6/1 posts?
Post by: veggie on October 08, 2020, 08:28:26 PM

If I may digress away from the original topic for just a moment ....
BruceM, good to see you posting. I feared the worst.
Welcome back

Title: Re: Does water flow around 6/1 posts?
Post by: BruceM on October 08, 2020, 10:01:33 PM
Thanks Veggie,
A couple good forum friends suggested the weather had improved here, so I've started following again.

On the topic at hand- leaking Listeroid head gaskets; less time is spent fixing the problem than cobbling kludges and pulling the head, replacing gaskets for leaks, but I did the latter first myself, many times before finally getting fed up.  I was building an off grid homestead so didn't want to take the time, but it was false economy.  Next time I had to pull the head for a leak, I was prepared, and the whole job only took a few hours, going slowly and carefully by hand.

Title: Re: Does water flow around 6/1 posts?
Post by: Hugh Conway on October 08, 2020, 10:27:17 PM
I also have had the excessive cylinder liner protrusion. Used the Same technique as BruceM.......carefully filed it down to about 5thou. I put a straight edge across the head, it was apparently flat. It's been more than 1000 hours without a problem.
The Indian copper asbestos gaskets must be sealed, or they WILL weep. I have used the Permetex aviation gasket sealer and also have soaked them in a silicone tile grout sealer. Both worked, the grout sealer is less messy.
It's not a bad idea to install the cylinder hold down studs with lock-tite: if you do have a head gasket weep from the water jacket, it may travel into the stud holes and migrate down into the crankcase. The lock-tite stops that. Teflon pipe dope works too.
As Bruce said, time spent doing this is far less than fixing repeated kluges.