Lister Engine Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: guest22972 on January 22, 2020, 07:52:04 AM
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I am thinking of getting a 2l subaru engine and converting it to a stationary engine. Can get a few of the thinga and they are worth nothing now.
These are all electronicaly computer controlled and i dont want to pull out a wiring loom and try and make it work with the oem computer. Way too many things to stop it working like needing the right key in the ignition barrel and probably wanting a transmission.
I can easily add a carb for fuel and bypass the fuel injectors or possibly use them but the main thing is spark. The engines have crank angle sensors so i can get a timing point and i dont need advance or anything other than basic timing like most stationary engines.
Looking on the net everything is to convert from points to electronic but i want to more or less go from computer to basic electronic.
Does any know of any threads/ kits/ yt vids of this?
Im thinking it should be pretty simple and could be done even with arduino but not having much luck finding anything. If i could find a way of spark triggering it might be possible to trigger the injectors for fixed load rpm operation and could experimint with governors from there.
Should make a good long lived engine and be able to run at low rpm for quiet as well as easily adapting to co gen.
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Hey Glort...
A brief look at a few cutaway pics on the net suggest that the end of a camshaft with an external old school distributor might be the easiest....
Cheers
Ed
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Some cars have the immobilizer chip in the cluster so you'd need the cluster, the key, pickup coil etc all connected to the ECU just to get it to start. My mate has a 20kw generator that used to be PTO driven off a tractor. He has if connected to a VW 1,9 NA diesel engine running at 1500 rpm. No governor, he says it always makes 240 volts or so. No huge loads on it just backup for his house so he has steady power.
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Many many years ago I built a generator using a 1.6 (IIRC) petrol engine, chosen because it used points and a carb. Biggest problem we found was, at the RPM range we wanted to run it (about 1500), it just didn't have the power. We'd have needed to build a 3krpm screamer to get anything like enough horsepower out of it. The other problem was managing the warm-up, since there was no automatic choke. A very clever chap built a PIC based controller for it, using servos to drive the choke & throttle cables. It worked, after a fashion, but it was always a bear to try to get it stable. It reacted too slowly to changes in load, and the fuel efficiency was in the toilet.
Next attempt used a 1.9 diesel engine, same controller (re-written), with just a throttle control. That worked much better, still a bit sluggish to respond to load changes; the biggest problem was it ate glow plugs, and sooted up something chronic. It was just too much of an engine, in many ways, it was never loaded up properly. Plus it was surprisingly noisy, and exceedingly smoky.
If I were to build another one, I'd use a Chinese horizontal, sized approximately to the gen head, so it ran flat out on full load when everything was drawing power. Cheap car engines sound great in principle, but in practice, they're not really suited to the application, unless you're going with a BIG alternator, and they are surprisingly difficult to dial in.
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Hi Gentles
In my little or no experience, and above all, given your admiralty knowledge, there is a conclusion I geted: to get a voltage stable genhead, I need to have a heavy flywheel, or other weight to preserve the momentum. Of course it would be best to have low rpm to extend engine's life.
Another conclusion I could get in most of LEF´s threads, is the start key of any engine must have - at least - more than 2kg, I mean a starting handle (I'm not referring big ships) . (forget SOM, a good stationary engine must be attended)
Ever you ever thougted the luck we have to tweak "nowadays" a 6/1, or a 12/2, or other low rpm engine. They are machines builted for life. (How many mechanics did you had 50 years ago in the middle of australia to give assistence?)
Just my thoughts for this thread.
Cheers
VP
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I get what you are saying and i wouldnt be going into this as a serious generator although quite happy to do that if i learn more than i anticipate.
Fair enough: As a project to mess about with & use up some old-but-good engines, I think you'll have a ball. If you ever came to rely on one for electricity, you'll be cursing them...
Im thinking one of these engines should have good power and torque but im thinking in the 10 to 15 hp range at maybe 2000 rpm or lower. They could be geared as required for the speed and rpm.
That was pretty much what we were aiming for. a 6KVA gen head should require around 15-18hp to run - call it 20 with parasitic loads such as belts and pumps. Yes, the engine would do it - IF it was up to speed before the load was applied, and if the load was applied fairly slowly. Throw in both rings of the cooker (this was on a giant RV, or a "mid-sized" by US standards ;D), and the engine would bog down, and couldn't recover fast enough, so it would just stall. If a load was suddenly released (e.g. kettle boiled, cooker turned off), it would over-speed, and the safety routine would cut the engine. This was not something I'd want to risk a laptop on...
On the other hand, if you can give it a fairly even load, with a slow ramp up/ramp down (say... battery charging with an intelligent controller?), it could be quite successful.
Almost wondering with enough advanced timing and water injection if i could run one of these petrols on a 50% veg petrol mix?
If you skim the heads enough, you could probably run them on diesel! Sure, they wouldn't have the strength to lug a Subaru bodyshell around the forest for 100,000 miles - but as a cheap-ass stationary engine, I don't see why not. Put the injectors where the spark plug is now...
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Everything electric ignition, Brian Miller's page a wealth of information.
http://gardentractorpullingtips.com/ignition.htm (http://gardentractorpullingtips.com/ignition.htm)
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If there is a Basic aftermarket computer available, that would be great.
In SA we have two that I know of, Spitronics and Dicktator
www.spitronics.co.za
www.dicktator.co.za
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TM40 pumper carb. Good bit of kit. Have put lots of them on large Japanese singles over the years. Lots of jet info on line for them. You'll want to come down a long way on the accelerator pump jet in an application like that or it'll bog when you open the throttle. Any sort of stationary application imho you want to remove the accelerator pump linkage altogether as a trial
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With the bliss of ignorance Ade, the problems you had sound like a lot could be put down to govenor issues.
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govenor and geating the engine to run in a decent spot on the torque curve.
Both valid points, particularly the latter. By running at low RPMs, you're waaay down on the torque curve. I guess the way to look at it is; if you're driving along the flat at 1500rpm (say 60mph), then start climbing a steep hill; the engine will bog down & just hitting the gas will take a long time before you're back to 1500rpm. Do the same thing at 3000rpm, or 4500rpm, and you'll be back to speed almost immediately.
I do think we had 2 problems: The slow speed meant the engine couldn't handle sudden uptakes of power; the overspeed was probably the governer responding too slowly to a speed increase. After all, cut the fuel and the engine will slow down no matter what the load is... The best way to overcome this would have been to have a "hard stop" maximum RPM (so a mechanical governer, perhaps), and running the engine at it's peak torque, i.e. about 4500rpm. Then you're looking for a tiny little engine, because at 4500rpm, an old Scooby 2 litre is going to be giving you maybe 90kW... or 200kW if you use the WRX version ;D
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Some 4 cylinder Volvo engines used a distributor mounted on the camshaft end. The timing could be advanced or retarded by rotating the distributor.
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Had a thought.
This might be something to consider looking into.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fairbanks-Morse-FM-V4B7-4-Cylinder-Tractor-Wisconsin-Engine-Magneto-HOT/184085921097?hash=item2adc603d49:g:gMkAAOSwd1dd-REf
I’ve had impulse mags on Wisconsin engines and they been pretty much bullet proof.
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Some surplus:
http://www.saturnsurplus.com/genset/4a084-1.htm
http://saturnsurplus.com/genset/5mag.jpg Impulse Mag. (4 cylinder)
http://saturnsurplus.com/genset/2096.jpg Governor
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I was thinking I have an impulse mag in storage. I’ll never use it. It’s been laying around for over 25 years.
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Charles lindberg was responsible for discovering how to DOUBLE the range of wwii aircraft. By running high boost and low rpm fuel economy was doubled which enabled allied aircraft in the pacific to be able to strike places far further than the enemy could anticipate and was a big factor in the overthrow of the japs.
He worked in person with the pilots and flight crews on the P38’s there is a great documentary on it. Was very interesting.
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Charles lindberg was responsible for discovering how to DOUBLE the range of wwii aircraft. By running high boost and low rpm fuel economy was doubled which enabled allied aircraft in the pacific to be able to strike places far further than the enemy could anticipate and was a big factor in the overthrow of the japs.
I believe ALL WW2 fighter aircraft were boosted. e.g. the Spitfire & Hurricane aircraft used a 2-stage supercharged Merlin engine. It wasn't just about fuel economy - the air is getting plenty thin at the altitudes they were flying, so boost allowed the engines to get a decent amount of air for the fuel they were burning. And they were 2-stage so you could switch from low boost (low altitude) to high boost as required. Not sure if they also used high boost to enhance top speed whilst in a low-level dogfight, but I can't imagine they didn't try it...
I think the Messerschmitts were turbo-charged, but haven't googled to confirm that.
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I think the Messerschmitts were turbo-charged, but haven't googled to confirm that.
supercharged according to wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimler-Benz_DB_605
The supercharger was fairly advanced for the era in that it used a barometrically controlled hydraulic clutch (fluid coupling) which allowed the system to automatically compensate for changes in altitude.
way down in the list of variants:
DB 625 A turbocharged DB605
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I'll have to read up on Lindburgh - you're probably right about that. IIRC the P38 had an Allison engine to begin with, I don't know if it was a NA or boosted engine; but it was underpowered for the plane. Putting the Merlin, and later the Griffon (the tank engine variant was the Meteor, and was unboosted as far as I know - tanks never really got my juices flowing the same way as WW2 aircraft), turned it, as you say, into the legend that it became.
Hmm, I have a few Jag V12s lying about the shed, it'd be interesting to stick a 2-stage supercharger on one, just to see what it could do...
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I always had an interest WW2 fighters.
The P38 had lots of teething problems in the beginning. Most of the Allison engine issues were addressed in the later versions.
The first P38’s Britain received were awful. They were underpowered because no turbocharger’s in them and I believe Britain canceled the order.
It was not much longer when turbocharger’s were installed and they did very well in Asia. But it would of been a much better plane if Merlin’s were installed. The Merlins were more reliable, Merlin gave Packard licensing to build the Merlins in the US. A Merlin powered P38 would of been something.
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Hmm, I have a few Jag V12s lying about the shed, it'd be interesting to stick a 2-stage supercharger on one, just to see what it could do...
That would make it a Mini Merlin would it not? :laugh:
Sure like to see that!
Mini Merlin:
https://hackaday.com/2017/09/11/if-youre-going-to-make-a-model-engine-you-might-as-well-make-it-a-merlin/
Some history of the Merlin:
https://youtu.be/GYcKdK7hmEo
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Glort,
If you can find a wrecked older honda civic hybrid or insight hybrid they have a permanent magnet generator (IMA) packed just behind the flywheel. I believed they output 120v'ish 3 phase AC. but the coils could be rewired in parallel to lower the voltage or just rewound for a 12v or maybe 24v output
That would make a nice stationary motor conversion for topping off the solar batteries.
That was in the early 2000's when they where using the 120v Nimh battery packs.
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Glort,
If you can find a wrecked older honda civic hybrid or insight hybrid they have a permanent magnet generator (IMA) packed just behind the flywheel. I believed they output 120v'ish 3 phase AC. but the coils could be rewired in parallel to lower the voltage or just rewound for a 12v or maybe 24v output
That would make a nice stationary motor conversion for topping off the solar batteries.
That was in the early 2000's when they where using the 120v Nimh battery packs.
Fisher & Paykel Smart Drive Washing Machine
(https://i.postimg.cc/0Qd68VdY/smart.png)