Lister Engine Forum
Slow Speed Diesel Engines => Changfa Engines => Topic started by: saba on October 18, 2019, 02:22:34 AM
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By luck I have some time on my hands, I like to replace my 6-1 start o matic chp thats giving to much vibrations to use it indoors for one based on a yanmar TS 105.
Yanmar I bought I while ago as a genset 5 kw, to start with a good base I opened it for a quick peek inside. Turned out piston ran a bit hot, liner just needed some honing. To start off "new"I ordered new piston and liner with some gaskets from sunity taiwan. I think the set has nearly no running hours just lack of cooling water.
I scored a silent box for a small marine generator, brand new still in plastic, it should just fit snuck inside the box.
I like the lister 10 times better but it's like having a horse like a pet in your house, the yanmar more being like a hamster.
I'll try to post progress reports, it will not go fast due to more important stuff eating time.
I was pretty far with automation on the lister, arduino current measuring temperatures flow coolingwater. So hopefully I can just mount it to this one without to much trouble.
Need to think about some exhaust system with heat recovery absolute no noise and no dripping of condensing exhaust fumes at places you don't expect/want.
Thinking of putting the silent box on a raised frame and doing my exhaust 'scrubber'underneath.
I might need to order a new pully for the electromotor, it says 2400 revs max for the yanmar and that should give 1510 on the electromotor.
Yanmar has a throttle handle stop start run, I will replace it with a servo should also give me the ability to in/decrease power.
Electromotor is a dahlander two speed 1500 or 750. The tag plate was not there when I bought it but I think it is at least 8KW by the look at the size. The lister I always started on low revs and when it was running I would pop the breaker untill it reached 620rpm and then switch to the high rpm breaker.
If you 'drive'an electromotor you can use it as a generator.
For example if you read the tag and it says 3kw and 1470rpm, then when you dive it to 1530 you will generate 3kw.
To be continued,
Bernhard
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saba,
Interesting project. I am currently building the same thing using a Changfa 175. A physically smaller system than yours.
The Yanmar should run quite smooth since these engine types have internal counterbalance shafts.
Having an enclosure for the system will certainly help you get control of mechanical noise.
I have not yet found a robust throttle servo to drive with my Arduino controller. I have several plastic units from ebay (with metal gears) but I fear they may not be reliable enough. What unit do you use?
Veggie
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DS3218MG
From Ali express it feels strong should pull 20kg. I haven't tried it yet but I will.
Bernhard
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I still need to figure out something nice looking and functional to pull the valve lifter. I see your blanking plate has a bit more mass then mine, bit afraid mine is to flimsy and will leak. Will post some more foto's later today.
Bernhard
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I used 3/8" (10mm) steel plate for the blanking plate.
This gave me enough material to cut pipe threads for the connections.
The pipe fittings screw right into the plate.
The inlet and outlet are different to facilitate convection.
-Outlet fitting takes water from the top of the water jacket (right at the blanking plate). The highest point.
-Water return connection has an extension below the plate which delivers cooler water to the bottom of the cooling chamber.
I intend to use an "open" system which is vented so I do not expect any pressure to build. A high temp switch is necessary to kill the engine if the temperature approaches dangerous levels due to a heat exchanger pump failure or a radiator fan failure.
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As I understand it, the over-speeding of an electric motor can certainly provide power BUT the run capacitors (ratings) must be tuned to the specific load for best power quality and performance. Once your system drifts away from the load "sweet spot" the capacitors no longer match the motor output. If you keep a constant load AND tune the capacitors you may be ok.
As glort stated, the name plate data may not reflect output capability.
I recently read an article where an electrical engineer was able to get 3kw from a 5kw motor when tuning the capacitors for a similar project.
He optimized his system for 2500 watts output.
If the load was dropped below 1800 watts the power factor went out the window. Very poor.
The power company adjusts thier massive capacitors on the fly at the power station to match loads, that's why Mains power is always optimized.
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Ok for this reason I got a three fase connection at home, here in holland every house has 3 fases but mostly only one fase is connected. If you connect a 3 fase motor to the grid it wil run with slip so the more power you take off the motor the more slip you have.
If you run the motor without load it will run at 1497 rpm (guess), the more load the more slip rpm drops. But if you 'overspeed' the motor you start generating.
The stator with all the windings creates the rotating field and pulls along the simple steel rotor but if you drive the rotor you will push the field in the stator.
I spend a lot of time on this and to my recollection it was my own invention to find out later loads of guys were doing the same.
I used up more then a 1000 liters of fuel so I hope it worked......
Nice thing is you can start your engine with your generator...
Regards Bernhard
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Ok to make it clear I am not using anything just a breaker to connect the motor to the net and instead of the motor driving something ... you just start driving the motor. Works like a dream.
Only thing if there is a power outage ....you need candles.
Super save, I think reasonably efficient and cheap plenty old motors for sale for scrap money.
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Hey glort, I think electromotor is approx 8kw, it's two speed dahlander. I always started the lister with it so this should be a lot easier.
On paper it should be profitable, electricity I generate pays for the fuel and then the generated heat is the profit.
But it's a hobby gives you an excuse to play with engines, and gives you something to show people if some birthday visitors come over.
It doesn't matter if hobbies cost money, if you leave out all the costs apart from fuel you make money just don't count the rest...
Bernhard
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Does the Yanmar have a 12 volt electric starter motor?
I suggest trying the starter motor without the decompression lever activated before you start designing a decompression servo.
Many of the commercial applications for these engines (including marine applications) do not use the decompression lever when starting.
The 12 volt starter motor may be quite adequate to rotate through compression.
However, if you need to use the electric motor/generator to start the engine some experimentation may be needed to see if has adequate torque.
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I wonder if these generic fuel system solenoids would work for your decompression actuation.
They are fast acting and have a fairly good pull strength.
That way you don't have to use PWM signaling to drive a servo on the Arduino. Just use a digital pin to drive a solid state relay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1502-12C2U1B2S1A-Fuel-cutoff-solenoid-12V-Kubota-D1402-D1403-D1005-D1105/392399233893?hash=item5b5cd12365:g:KxIAAOSwKgZdY5wN (https://www.ebay.com/itm/1502-12C2U1B2S1A-Fuel-cutoff-solenoid-12V-Kubota-D1402-D1403-D1005-D1105/392399233893?hash=item5b5cd12365:g:KxIAAOSwKgZdY5wN)
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This one has a lever assembly. I wonder if you could drill a hole in your decompression lever and fit this hook to it.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuel-Shut-Off-Solenoid-Valve-Shutdown-1502-12V-LPW-LPWS-LPWT-Engine-366-07197/162596784335?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D60695%26meid%3D736f52d0e74949eeb24cab18e8fd0a08%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpf%26sd%3D362751374206%26itm%3D162596784335%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuel-Shut-Off-Solenoid-Valve-Shutdown-1502-12V-LPW-LPWS-LPWT-Engine-366-07197/162596784335?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D60695%26meid%3D736f52d0e74949eeb24cab18e8fd0a08%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpf%26sd%3D362751374206%26itm%3D162596784335%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851)
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Without question it's easier on the starter to decompress. But not necessary on some engines. Very necessary on others
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV0swraaikg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV0swraaikg)
Depends on the engine.
Cranking of the engine at 6:15 minute mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phjoeEld8ac (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phjoeEld8ac)
A big 195 start without decompression. My 195 was able to easily do this also.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVJelEpPtoE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVJelEpPtoE)
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The ts 105 is handcrank only, but fairly easy. About the fuel solenoid I was also thinking in the same direction. Thing is how to mount it looking a bit neat...from experience I know temporal mounts stay there for eternity.
Thanks for the suggestions and help'
Bernhard
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Not much has happened since last time, not much time to be busy with it. Managed to buy a pool heater as a exhaust heat recovery, and mounted it. Bought a new pully to bring down the revs to a better rpm. Been tearing down my lister cs som, what a nice beast each flywheel must be around 100kg. I really love this thing. But it's like keeping a horse in an apartment.
My cool cell motorroom still need to be torn down but I am a little reluctant with my sound damper box wich is full with soot. Will become a mess.
just yesterday I came across a genset a kubota ZB 400/500/600 with a 5kva . I know I should not be buying more stuff but it's in my home town. I made an offer of 250E guy wants 350E.
I haven't seen it yet only picture, looks like it's been outside under a plastic blanket for 5 years +.
Anyone knows these engines, its 3000rpm stuff not really my cup of tea but might be a good deal.
Regards Bernhard
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They are pretty good running engines. They are not as popular as they once were and it’s getting hard to get parts for them. If it’s complete and puts out power it would be a good deal.
If your just going to use the engine on another project and it has a stub shaft on the flywheel then that will save you lots of time and money. About 8 years ago it was almost impossible impossible to find the Stub shaft. It was discontinued. Some of them came with a 6 groove k belt pulley. First thing to do is take a look at it and see if it runs. Than see what the parts availability is. Radiators seem to take a beating because of the engines vibration. Brother went through 2 radiators on his zb600. He is still running if but as I mentioned earlier parts are Becoming hard to find.
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They run pretty good between 2600-3000 RPM’s I believe they we’re rated up to 3200 RPM’s
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Thanks for your info, I threw out some bait but no luck yet.
Parts are pretty expensive no point of paying to much. Maybe in some time without any interest of other people it might show up again.
Still busy with dismantling my old chp, lot of soot and black from breather of the sump. Not a nice job.
Bernhard
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It,s a water heated poolheater, I'll give it a try. Can sell it if it doesn't work.
But still busy with dismantling and cleaning garbage of old chp.
bernhard
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Its been some time since my last update,
Where am I at now, Engine is in it's "soundproof" box I had to overhaul it completely. Started with a piston and liner, there was play on a shaft key so fuel injection was late giving tons of smoke. Neighbour complaining. pffff. Put a new shaft key and replaced all roller bearings.
There's 2 shims under the fuelpump so you can move the injection time ahead a bit, removed one might take out the other one. Think wear on the gears moved injection time late as well.
Just had it running for two hours 3000 watts, running smooth satisfying.
Exhaust goes threw a pool heater dropping temperature to 80 dergr celsius with a flex tube to an old square water tank of a boat approx 250 ltrs, inside rockwool and 2 chambers to kill the exhaust noise. Lister I had 4 chambers and it was completely dead, now you can hear the exhaust but extremely soft.
Big point of attention the exhaust from the pool heater which is mounted to the engine and moving to the tank which is rigged I have a flex stainless hose of diam 80mm but its moving like crazy.
That will not last 100 hours before something breaks and starts leaking.
Need to figure out something sexy.
Automation, I mounted my servo motor on the fuel rack/governor with mqtt messages. So via wifi connection I could alter the load of the engine. It works but needs some tidying up.
I was using a type of esp8266 board with external wifi antenna very good but fragile, in other words I burned a few. Think I will use a plastic box so I can use a normal board.
I have my electricity meter sending messages every 10 seconds so I can adjust the load of the engine to match the demand.
rest of the stuff, cooling water flow, temperatures and start stop was already working on the lister so only have to drop it on.
Regards
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ESP8266 works. It has some quirks ... like shutting off every few hours :)
Some do it ... some don't.
That can be solved easy enough via adding a small reset routine in the programming.
Best thing to do is mount the controller OFF-SKID away from the engine vibration.
If set up properly they can be fairly reliable.
They can also be programmed to send MQTT "internet of things" data to the web for access by your phone or other PC's