Lister Engine Forum
Lister Engines => Listeroid Engines => Topic started by: veggie on October 17, 2019, 05:46:18 PM
-
I'm looking for ideas to make a listeroid exhaust super quiet for residential use without having to dig a hole in the ground and bury everything.
Other houses are within 150 ft of the engine location.
I want to run the unit for 4 hrs per day without upsetting the neighbors.
Has anyone built a silent exhaust system for their Lister/roid?
-
But a Lister exhaust throb is a beatiful sound and so nice for rocking one to sleep. Your neighbours should pay you to listen to that exhaust.
-
But a Lister exhaust throb is a beautiful sound and so nice for rocking one to sleep. Your neighbours should pay you to listen to that exhaust.
I cannot improve on that statement.
But what I did, was have an adapter welded up to 2" pipe, a flanged diesel truck braided flex hose, and then into a good sized truck muffler. It's not silent, but a steady thump thump, about as loud at the mechanical rattle from the camshaft stuff.
See the link in my .sig for lister running , for a short video
-
The concern is that if the lister is running at 10PM there may be issues with neighbours.
Especially if it runs for 4 hours before automatically shutting off when the water storage tank reaches 180f.
Sound travels at night.
I have seen some very quite systems where there is hardly any exhaust pop at all, but they have been underground tanks.
-
... I'm thinking of 3 large automotive mufflers in a row. Something like 2-1/2" inlet/outlet sizes.
Anyone tried that? I wonder about the back pressure.
-
I had the same problem, tried a lot of things but always the deep bass sound remained. I made a labyrinth box with rockwool inside. Three chambers ,30cm/45cm/160cm wide high lenght . There is just fumes coming and no sound at all. I should have a video somewhere I'll try to find it.
Bernhard
-
How about a sound cancelling loudspeaker system?
A split exhaust with one arm traveling far enough to provide a half hertz phase shift before reuniting them?
-
I had the same problem, tried a lot of things but always the deep bass sound remained. I made a labyrinth box with rockwool inside. Three chambers ,30cm/45cm/160cm wide high length . There is just fumes coming and no sound at all. I should have a video somewhere I'll try to find it.
Bernhard
From what material did you build the labyrinth box?
-
Behind the lister I had a big exhaustgas cooler so the gas exits at cooling water temp, max 90 degr C .
I made the box out of wood / thin plywood lined it with rockwool, inside I have to walls so you have three chambers. a pipe threw these walls in a way that the sound bounces of the opposing wall and cannot enter the next pipe directly.
If you look at a cut open car exhaust same thing only bigger with rockwool. Rockwool was rockfon ceiling plates like the ones they use in offices, but I am sure any kind will work
It was overkill because there was no noise at all even with your ear next to the exhaust.
Had to do it because I live really close to the neighbours.
The flaw of the design, exhaust gasses condensing in the last chamber with hot coolingwater and cold outside temps.
I think the yanmar will be easier to shut up, I am thinking of making a similar design but maybe in an old air compressor tank with a water drain at the bottem...
But rockwool labyrinth you can kill any sound or anyone without disturbing the neighbours.
Bernhard
-
Underground mufflers can be extremely quiet ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2682AwYJ7w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2682AwYJ7w)
-
I had seen that one as well on my search for silence, but no place to dig a whole. There are also drawings in the start o matic manual with sizes of the pit If you can it is the best way to go i think.
Bernhard
-
Behind the lister I had a big exhaustgas cooler so the gas exits at cooling water temp, max 90 degr C .
I made the box out of wood / thin plywood lined it with rockwool, inside I have to walls so you have three chambers. a pipe threw these walls in a way that the sound bounces of the opposing wall and cannot enter the next pipe directly.
If you look at a cut open car exhaust same thing only bigger with rockwool. Rockwool was rockfon ceiling plates like the ones they use in offices, but I am sure any kind will work
It was overkill because there was no noise at all even with your ear next to the exhaust.
Had to do it because I live really close to the neighbours.
The flaw of the design, exhaust gasses condensing in the last chamber with hot coolingwater and cold outside temps.
I think the yanmar will be easier to shut up, I am thinking of making a similar design but maybe in an old air compressor tank with a water drain at the bottem...
But rockwool labyrinth you can kill any sound or anyone without disturbing the neighbours.
Bernhard
Saba, could you do a really basic sketch with basic dimensions? I'm having trouble visualizing. I think you are on to something here. I need to have a quiet exhaust too due to close neighbors.
-
Took a picture with my phone from paper now it all looks bent. Other picture is showing part of the box and my exhaust cooler. It's all black because of the cleaning of the clogged up cooler each time. A job to look forward to.
Pipe going in the box is pvc sewer pipe 110mm I guess. Exhaust gas is below 90degr celcius so After the cooler its all plastic.
You can see my olive green ceiling tiles every where these also in the box.
So I made 4 chambers, really overkill it's absurd silent.
I have a small alley in between my house and the nabours where the exhaust exits, with a previous version I had it all silent but the thump of the exhaust you felt in your stomach the moment you entered the alley.
For the design improvements, inside it looks like a black hole combined with chernobyl. I experimented with fuels and had a stuck injector once.....
Lister cs does not run on HFO380 even when it's hot and mixed with a lot of diesel.....
I need to take it out but the mess it will give is keeping me from it.
Hope it helps for your project
regards Bernhard
-
Ok I saw I mixed mm's and cm, 168cm long.
For improvement make it water proof with a drain (condensating exhaust). The tubing inside was stainless air duct tubing. Tiles are compressed rockwool ceiling plates . I have the hole engine space patched up they suck up most of the noise.
Of course I sealed everything with silicone.
The size was determined by the space available as big as I could go.
Bernhard
-
I took an old 20lb propane tank and cut a hole in the top and bottom. I welded threaded pipe couplings to both ends and i run the exhaust into one end and out the other. it acts like an accumulator and allows the release of exhaust gases more slowly. behind that i have a 2.5"diameter car muffler and the exhaust pipe goes outside from there. Outside i transition to a 15" length of 4" pvc that is on the ground with a reducer at the other end back to 2". You can't hear the exhaust 25 feet away at all.
-
Since my wife.........and the neighbors.........object to the sound of my 6/1, I've been thinking about using a propane tank also, but with a slightly different setup.
Note: The wife's objections are toned down a bit when we still have lights/t.v. and everyone else doesn't. :)
My idea is to run the exhaust into the side of the tank, at the top. Then, a second pipe will be located at the top and extend all the way down to the bottom, but about one inch from it. The idea is to have the exhaust enter and begin swirling a bit, as it travels to the bottom where it can begin exiting back up through the other pipe. A rain stack and condensate drain would complete the assembly.
I have no proof that such a setup would be better or fool proof, but it WOULD circulate, cool and let the gasses expand before exiting. Somewhat like the old cyclonic air filters worked. At any rate, it HAS to be better than that "pepper pot" muffler that came with the engine!
-
Saba, thanks for the pic and drawing. I was thinking it could be done with one chamber but I see you had 4 in the drawing.
If temps are low enough, I wonder if egg krate foam shape could be used to line the inside of the box. The foam is great at absorbing sound waves and the spikes shapes are good at breaking up the sound waves.
There is also the air pulse to deal on top of the sound waves. I'm guessing from everyones comments, the key elements are a large chamber(s) and some sound absorbing material liner.
-
Why not try some R-max instead? R-max is a stiff, foil covered foam available at most lumber yards and is used as insulation. It comes in 4' x 8' sheets, 1" and 2" thicknesses. Easily cut and either glued or fastened with clamps inside your muffler.
-
Why not try some R-max instead? R-max is a stiff, foil covered foam available at most lumber yards and is used as insulation. It comes in 4' x 8' sheets, 1" and 2" thicknesses. Easily cut and either glued or fastened with clamps inside your muffler.
The foam should help dampen sound waves since we are only dealing with a low frequency noise. I like the idea of rock wool
-
There's drawing from a Lister SOM booklet that shows an exhaust system that could be excellent.
Also, it looks like it would be cheap and easy to accomplish.
Jordan
-
Hello Jordan, if you have a garden or place to dig a hole for sure that's the way to go.
-
Yes, the official Lister design using an underground concrete chamber is very effective.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2682AwYJ7w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2682AwYJ7w)
-
I tried a few different mufflers, guess I didn't get the right one.
Dug a hole. the "pit of doom" works great for quieting things down.
Here's a link to an old thread about the "Pit" that contains 38AC, Bruce and others......
https://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=7773.0
An air compressor intake filter works great, screws right in. Makes a huge difference with not very much expense.
Now, that noisy valve-gear!
Cheers
Hugh
-
Re the intake side of things:
An ancient thread that already has that solution, It works very well. There are other ways too, but this is as simple as it gets....just get a Solberg and screw it in.
Here's one: https://www.solbergmfg.com/filters-traps-silencers/inlet-filtration-silencing/fs-ps-series/fs-19-150
Or different Mfg: https://www.ecompressedair.com/eca-pfs-19p-150-air-intake-assembly-w-silencer.aspx
I 'm using that one.
Cheers
Hugh
-
I know this is a bit late, haha, but I'm fairly new to the forum.
This is my take on quietness of a Lister/oid engine.
Everyone knows a petrol/gasoline engine is quieter than a diesel engine.
Everyone knows that a single cylinder engine is noisier than a multi cylinder engine.
Everyone knows that the bigger the cylinder capacity the more noise you get.
So a large capacity, (1450 cc), diesel engine with a single cylinder, isn't the quietest beast on the block.
Saying that.... These engines, original or clone, still do what they were meant to do, convert diesel into power and they do it surprisingly well.
Even with a pepperpot muffler, these engines are quieter than the average Harley Davidson wth compariive capacity, gasoline powered and twin mufflers.
So, I suppose I m going on the awkward side of the request, to make a lister/ oid quieter...why change what has obviously worked for over 100 years? These machines were built for farm and factory, not a terraced house in suburbia.
If quietness is required there are many natural gas powered multi cylinder generators available that are very quiet.
Changing what simply works, I'm sorry, is nonsense,
-
In reply to your comment about it being nonsense to try making a Listeroid exhaust quiet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75ffy41BcRY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75ffy41BcRY)
https://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=9268.0 (https://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=9268.0)
Many members live in residential areas and noise may be a concern. Nothing wrong with that.
-
I find the character of the sound is more important than sound level. The Listeroid chug, chug, at 650 rpm I find quite pleasant. I don't care for 1800 rpm engine noise either, though it is certainly better than 3600 rpm. Admittedly I have chronic brain inflammation from MS and resulting epilepsy. So finding a bearable generator was one of my first efforts when moving way off grid. The Listeroid has served me well. It's inaudble near my home and shop site. My setup uses a large automotive muffler, as the exhaust is used for induced draft through the radiator.
Other factors for those intent on putting the Lister CS type engines close to the home are the clatter of the valve train is quite loud; I found this even for the DES 8/1 clone I converted to propane for my neighbor. There is no diesel knock, but the valve train clatter is still there. Louvered ventilation vents down low and not facing the home site help, as does the insulated engine shed. The valve train clatter is audible for about 50 feet.
The exhaust note on my neighbor's propane 8/1 is completely gone via a leach field muffler. It is barely detectable with your ear right against the outlet pipe. It also cleans up the exhaust- no odor but earthy air. Any of the various earth mufflers seem to perform exceptionally well thanks to the very large expansion area.
The other issue for those planning very close proximity is the vibration of the earth close to the Lister CS types. This is best mitigated by proper balancing using the 38AC method. A slightly overbalanced engine will have a bit of rocking but the least vertical vibration. You could adjust to suit the nearby structure. Still, I would avoid putting it very close to the home slab or foundation and would try to isolate the engine concrete from the nearby structure via foam or sand if trying to have it very close (less than 10 feet).
Best Wishes,
Bruce
-
I know old thread.. Veggie did you make it quiet? Simpleset and easiest way is mount the exhaust outlet well above a persons ear height. Maybe two good size mufflers then head the exhaust up side of house 7-10 ft. Works like a charm.. the reason big big generators do it this way. Outlet above ear height makes a huge difference. No concrete or foam boxes just pipe and mufflers
-
I know old thread.. Veggie did you make it quiet? Simpleset and easiest way is mount the exhaust outlet well above a persons ear height. Maybe two good size mufflers then head the exhaust up side of house 7-10 ft. Works like a charm.. the reason big big generators do it this way. Outlet above ear height makes a huge difference. No concrete or foam boxes just pipe and mufflers
keith71
Yes, it's super quiet. Have a look at the YTube video links above.
The project turned out very well.
Here...
https://youtu.be/75ffy41BcRY (https://youtu.be/75ffy41BcRY)
cheers
-
Lister drawing 4526EP
Anybody got a lead on where to find this Lister drawing?? Underground muffler? Most interested. Please advise.
-
It's a little dense with detail but the info is all there. I will keep looking and see if I can find it in pdf format.
-
Brocodriver- Many thanks! Yep, a bit busy, but I now understand the concept. I could make that out of concrete pretty easily.