Lister Engine Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: dkmc on October 13, 2019, 05:36:06 AM

Title: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: dkmc on October 13, 2019, 05:36:06 AM

Anyone on this forum running their Lister-or-roid on the west coast due to power outage?
I suspect if they were, they'd have already posted here
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: xyzer on October 13, 2019, 05:46:19 AM
My dad ran his 6/1 to keep the freezer inline! He is 93. I bought 2 from George many years ago. He put electric start on his. I think that may be a good idea as years move on.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: mike90045 on October 13, 2019, 05:58:29 AM
I'm here in the thick of it, but I'm also off-grid and it's been sunny, haven't run the 6/1 for power for several months.  Rain expected next week, may need it then.

Tom in Hopland, same thing, off grid, solar, and it's sunny.

Stores were a mess. Costco out of bottled water, all grocery stores were swarmed. Hardware stores sold out of generators and parts to make suicide power cords.  Lots of rural folks on wells needing 240VAC to run, but not with a cheap genset.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: dkmc on October 13, 2019, 06:13:10 AM
Gentleman, glad to see a quick response from a few of you. We all, (group members from all over the country and the world) can learn from your experiences with this situation. Sounds like stocking up on water or having a well is a GOOD idea. Please share your experience here and tell us how you managed this situation.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: mike90045 on October 13, 2019, 06:31:58 AM
I think the final count was 700,000 households and business shut down for about 3 - 4 days. PG&E was pretty quick to get the grid inspected and turned back on.   The wind patterns were only mild and dindn't knock stuff down (but at the mountain tops they logged +70mph winds) .

But stores and restaurants lost cold storage inventory (any fixed generators over 50hp need an expensive permit from the AQMD (air quality management district) ATM's and credit card systems went down because of disconnects in the data lines - somewhere a phone system looses it's backup and there goes everything that feeds thru it.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: dkmc on October 13, 2019, 06:55:21 AM

I haven't watched TV in over 10 years......WHY did they shut off the power??
I am on the internet, but don't look at the news sites regular. Did anyone have forewarning on this? Enough time to stock up on gasoline?

Why wouldn't Cali require the permit for gen sets over FIVE hp.....just to make life a total PITA?
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: glort on October 13, 2019, 12:27:56 PM

How interesting this situation is.

They shut off the power because they were blamed for bushfires previously and are trying to protect their corporate arses.
They are saying the wind and dry condition make it necessary for them to play it safe.
The thing that instantly concours to me is here in oz we have much hotter temps, half the country is in Drought, the winds they are saying make things so dangerous wouldn't be given a second thought here and fires caused by power lines are extremely rare. Certainly if the power was shut down to a large area with this excuse, No one would think it anything but a load of BS and how the hell the system got in such a piss poor state in the first place.

This leads me to wonder what sort of circus PG&E are running?

We are facing a lot of outages this summer due to the Political Virtue signalling and idiotic mis management and pandering of our gubbermints and there is a lot to be learned from this Commifornia blackout.

First thing for me is how we are going backwards. Blackouts were common when I was a kid, the last 20 years they are very rare and mainly caused by accidents and bad weather such as lightning strikes or VERY bad storms. Rare for power to be out for more than a few hours but I don't think that can be thought of as the probable case these days.  Seems now they are becoming more prevalent despite our advancements in technology, standards of living and modern expectations.

As such it seems we can't be as complacent as we used to be. Maybe now it is wise for EVERY home to have a generator, A reserve supply of fuel for the generator and Vehicles as well as maybe a weeks food and water.
Seeing what has happened in commifornia shows how fragile society has become.  Basically EVERYTHING  grinds to a stop without power.
Too late to try and get a generator or fuel or food once the problem has begun, You have to be prepared before.
I don't believe the security in power supply that was taken for granted now can be done so in a lot of places now in the first world. 

When " The greatest country in the world" ( supposedly) Can't provide power to around 2 million people, the majority in city/ Suburban areas for what is estimated to be a week or the better part of it, perhaps ordinary people need to be a bit more short term self reliant?

Mrs always keeps a pretty good supply of food in the place so I think my home is covered there. The weakness I can see is pet food which we go through a lot of  and often run down to a day or 2's supply.  I think I'll get in a weeks worth of that and just put it in a Cupboard up the back and rotate it say every 3 months.
I have a water tank which I do tend to keep pretty full and this seems to be a wise practice even if I did think myself  till now, an overly pedantic one.  I have generators but I think I will certainly up the amount of fuel I keep on hand from 20l of each to 100.  Or maybe a bit more for petrol for the vehicles.

 I think I might also have a re think about my solar configuration and set up a couple of KW of panels for a battery/ off grid application.
If I can run the fridge freezer from solar through the day, they will be cold enough to survive the night. I might also look at another freezer for ice, not for my previous home cooling idea but for refrigeration purposes in case I do need to keep things cold for a while with ice and to store more frozen foods.
The other thing where solar would be very handy is for my sewer system. It needs an air pump  fairly critically even more than a water pump.
The water pump isn't a big deal, I can either supply  power for about 10 Min to let it pump out or pump it out with a petrol pump. It has a good 3 days reserve capacity before it needs pumping.  What it does need  for long periods is the air pump running so being able to power that from solar would be a very big asset.

I think the prepping ideal to survive for months or years is ridiculous but being able to cope for a week may need to be something that a lot of people whom would never have given it a second thought before now should be making provision for.
I have concerns about our power supply over summer here and although I'm pretty well prepared just by my interest's and proclivities with no real concern for preparedness, I think it's time do do a few little things to fill in some of the gaps should something happen here and we are without power for a week.

I can only be seen as being over the top till the first time the power goes out for more than 24 hours.
 


Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: BruceM on October 13, 2019, 04:03:51 PM
PG&E was so busy handing out large dividends to shareholders ($4.5B) and huge paychecks to executives, it didn't have the money to trim trees and maintain the power lines.  They've got a million miles of lines which need complete replacement, lines, poles, transformers.  Now they have filed for bankruptcy.  American's are suckers for the "glories of the free market" swan song, and then act outraged when corporations act to maximize this years profits for shareholders.

Anyone with disposable income in California should be planning on pulling the plug on the power co.s, because the rates are about to go up, up up.  AZ power rates are rising fast as CA is buying power from AZ companies.  AZ couldn't stop them because of federal interstate commerce laws.

I sure like being off the grid with Listeroid backup/boost power.

Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: mike90045 on October 14, 2019, 03:30:59 AM
And then there is this rosy gem of an article

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/11/the-lights-went-out-in-california-that-was-the-plan-all-along/

Guest opinion by Chuck Devore

The power has been out in Northern California. More than 1 million Californians were without electricity, one of modern life’s essentials that is frequently taken for granted. The blackout was done on purpose—to prevent sparks from powerlines that could ignite deadly wildfires.

On the surface, the blackout and its causes are simple to understand. But the deeper causes are complicated, span decades of public policy, and dozens of overlapping unintended—and intended—consequences of decisions, both related and unrelated.......
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: dkmc on October 14, 2019, 03:35:26 AM

Well, if they gave Tesla more respect, we'd all be enjoying wireless electricity these days.
"No Wires -No Fires"

 ;)
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: BruceM on October 14, 2019, 03:43:13 AM
The author is very likely a Koch brothers & Co. propagandist. Whenever I see someone working for a bogus (Texas) foundation (so called right wing "think tanks") and text blaming environmental restrictions I smell Texas oil money in the air.

It is a popular ploy by such writers to blame politicians and environmental restrictions for actions that are clearly as simple as greed and profit motivations.  They didn't trim trees along their easements, and they didn't have a reasonable schedule to update line equipment until it explodes in a shower of sparks.  It's that simple.  We have the same problem in rural AZ. 

Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: glort on October 14, 2019, 07:16:12 AM

We are on a similar path here in oz.
Our power grid was handed over to private enterprise some years ago supposedly to lower prices through increased competition.  There are now well over 50 retailers. They are all playing the system and power prices have shot up exponentially to inflation and other costs of living.

They are pulling $2.7 Bn net profit out of the people last financial year but there are endless signs the whole system is not keeping up with required maintence and infrastructure.  For some inexplicable reason, they still get hundreds of millions in handouts from the gubbermint  for things they bleat they can't afford to do despite the profits they pay to directors and shareholders.

 Many people in the know predict they are going to run the system into the ground in the next 5-10 years then the gubbermint and the taxpayer will be forced to spend many more billions to get the grid back up to scratch again. In between that collapse either financially or of the grid system itself, There will be a lot of similar situations to commifornia and billions more lost in productivity, waste and loss of Jobs.

Big Biz is so corrupt these days it's incredible but they have already conditioned people to just expect it and so they get away with it easily.

If you think a utility is badly run by the gubbermint, just hand it over to private enterprise , wait a couple of years and then see a monumental cock-up of proportions you could not previously have imagined.

Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: cobbadog on October 14, 2019, 11:32:14 AM
Welcome back Glort.
We have way too many outages here and they always claim it is for maintenance and the last one definately was as they went the length of the street putting up new poles.
For a village supposedly on the grid I had to buy a gen set to keep power on for the fridge and seperate freeezer.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: BruceM on October 14, 2019, 03:54:03 PM
I wonder if the power co.s will abandon rural residential and small farm service altogether in time, just as phone land lines are being abandoned now.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: LowGear on October 14, 2019, 05:48:37 PM
Hey!  Enough of this bad mouthing the utility form of capitalism.  Growth almost always means pain.  Or does pain almost always mean growth?

I, too, am a bit burned out on the capitalistic model.  Too many victims and not enough winners.  I was in a classroom one day complaining about the profit margin of the local electric company and a couple of people recommended I invest in the corporation and take advantage of myself.  I still don't have a solid answer to their recommendation.  But I am grinning.

Of course if only the people of California had the ball diameter of those found in the Oz they would be just fine.

How big of battery pack would a household need to back up a generator to start a 1/2 hp well pump?  I'm assuming the light duty big box generators would be able to sustain them once they're up and humming.

I simply believe that solar panels on most every house and building would solve a lot of problems.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: BruceM on October 14, 2019, 06:14:41 PM
My deep well submersible 1/2 hp pump draws 1400 watts running, and 4KW generator will start it readily, as does my 6/1 Listeroid w/ ST-3 head.  Start peak is about 3x running.  This is a 230V pump with both start and run wires.

I think there are gird tie PV controllers that do support isolated operation sans batteries.  That could keep your freezer and refrigerator from a total melt down, and give you some power for cooking. 
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: glort on October 14, 2019, 09:44:21 PM
I wonder if the power co.s will abandon rural residential and small farm service altogether in time, just as phone land lines are being abandoned now.

The profiteering Power co Mongerals have complained here and tried to get extra fees levied against  Low power usage  places.
They argue that they don't make enough money from places like holiday houses or seasonal rental accommodation yet have to maintain supply to that property.
Here in oz they get at least $1 a day "supply" charges as it is.

Also in my last place, they never did a single thing to it specifically in over 30 years. Maintaining the poles and wires in the street is for everyone's benefit and a cost of the power co's doing business.  Their Business is Making  BILLIONS so hard to see why they need to screw anyone any harder.

I think here their downfall on the profit argument will come unstuck  with those that have solar and don't use a lot of power. There is already the whinge that those with solar are unfairly financially burdening those without because they aren't paying their fair share.
How about those paying more do without some of their indulgences and invest the same as others have for the over all benefit and cost savings instead of complaining.

According to our power company's and their shill supporters, People like you Bruce are also making it more expensive and not paying your share by being off grid.  Yes, you are a burden to your neighbours and being unfair by keeping to yourself and doing your own thing. If someone can explain to me logically how someone not using a service is being unfair to those that want to use it, I'll be fascinated to hear it.
Good job you have a car Bruce because if you didn't, You'd be unfair to other car owners as well apparently!   ::)
This is the moronic leftist thinking we have in society these days.

Profit or not, the money grabbing and the mismanagement in power cos seems universal.
I'm thinking rather than not servicing some customers, they are going to try to get it through that you have no option but to be connected..... at your expense of course.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: glort on October 14, 2019, 10:23:04 PM
  Growth almost always means pain.  Or does pain almost always mean growth?

Only with this is the directors and stockholders bank balance getting fatter.

Quote
I, too, am a bit burned out on the capitalistic model.  Too many victims and not enough winners.  I was in a classroom one day complaining about the profit margin of the local electric company and a couple of people recommended I invest in the corporation and take advantage of myself.

Yeah, a great strategy to divert complaints and criticism. Silence the critics by making them complacent and get in on the scam as well.
Paying people off for their silence is a very old strategy and seems to have adapted to new and socially acceptable forms.


Quote
Of course if only the people of California had the ball diameter of those found in the Oz they would be just fine.

If the crazy ideals of Commifornians weren't a laughing stock the world over, they would be a lot better off.
Mate of mine that lives there can't stand the place and won't be able to get out fast enough. Right now he has a sick mother to take care of but when that's no longer an issue, he's very keen to start the rest of his life in a place he deems sane.

I saw a vid where they were talking about the governor  earlier in the week making a big song and dance about outlawing small plastic Shampoo bottles in hotels as an environmental achievement but then millions of his constituents have no power for days.
Getting priorities right would no doubt be a help.
Maybe he didn't want to rock the boat because he's a shareholder too?

Quote
How big of battery pack would a household need to back up a generator to start a 1/2 hp well pump?

Do half the people in the US use Bore water rather than have town water running to their house?  Having a well ( bore) here is very rare and only used in remote properties and then mainly for non human consumption because the majority of it has too many minerals etc. some is palateable but mainly it's used for stock watering and gardening and the like.
Seems every second house in the US has a Bore and everyone is concerned about running the things.  Here we tend to pump up to tanks so there is always a reserve anyway. 

I would say any generator of about 2000W or more should be able to start them.  They can only have so much initial current draw and that couldn't be anymore than say a fridge or a compressor that also starts under load with help from a capacitor in most cases.

In the case of batteries, you wouldn't need a very big pack at all to start any motor. Batteries have loads of grunt. It's the inverter you'd have to pay attention to because that's what's really supplying the power and has no where near the surge current rating of any battery setup.


Quote
I simply believe that solar panels on most every house and building would solve a lot of problems.

To blight the landscape with solar and especially wind farms when there are millions of unused rooftops in citys where the power is needed is simply criminal corporate greed and a complete hypocrisy of the green ideal supposedly behind it.  They sell it as emissions free and other complete and utter bullshit when it's again nothing but a crutch for corporate greed.

It is totaly illogical except from a profit POV to scar the landscape with these things and then say you are saving the environment and talk about zero emissions when you have just spent 10's of Millions blighting the landscape a bit more with ugly transmission wires taking the power, at a loss, back to where there was endless space to put the panels in the first place.  Wind should just be plain outlawed but is on a downhill run due to it's own inadequacy's anyway.

The future generations like grizzla dumbird moans about are going to look at these things and ask  "WTF did they mess up the whole countryside when they could have put them right in the city where they needed the power and put them on rooftops where they would not have affected natural ecosystems or had any effect on the wildlife or anything else?"

The answer of course like everything else is PROFIT which comes before all else these days.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: broncodriver99 on October 14, 2019, 11:05:27 PM
Do half the people in the US use Bore water rather than have town water running to their house?  Having a well ( bore) here is very rare and only used in remote properties and then mainly for non human consumption because the majority of it has too many minerals etc. some is palateable but mainly it's used for stock watering and gardening and the like.
Seems every second house in the US has a Bore and everyone is concerned about running the things.  Here we tend to pump up to tanks so there is always a reserve anyway. 

I don't know the exact percentages but I would say it is 50/50 and chances are more of the country uses well water than municipal. Another thing is many of the smaller municipalities simply have a distribution system for well water where they have multiple high volume wells that they draw from. There are also areas of the US that still use rain water or snow melt collection and cisterns.

From what I have seen most properties(in rural areas) are developed with a well and septic system and only abandon them if/when a municipality expands it's distribution system and forces the land owner to connect to their system. In most areas if municipal water/sewer is available you HAVE to connect to it, AND PAY. I personally prefer well water. I currently have municipal water and it tastes like Sh*t and often smells like swimming pool water, it didn't used to though. The area I live in has some of the cleanest municipal water on the east coast but the overreaction, and over treatment of water, by many municipalities to things like the fiasco in Flint, Michigan where the municipality essentially poisoned every one they served has given municipal water a sour taste, no pun intended.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: dkmc on October 14, 2019, 11:35:11 PM

People in Colorado have already gotten arrested for collecting and/or diverting rain water. It's not far off when any solar not connected to the grid or solar 'provider' will be illegal, and any generator running other than an emergency power outage will be illegal. Startup up your Listeroid and get busted by your neighbors. Occupy your bare land (camping, off grid, tiny house) in certain states, without being connected to utilities, illegal. Maybe all these are laws already but no ones told me yet.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: mike90045 on October 15, 2019, 07:39:59 AM
here's a chart from the company that produces many (most) of the motors used in well pumps.
I use a 1/2 hp, 240V 3wire (external capacitor) pump, and my inverter logs it at 1,000w even.  That's counting it's power factor loss.     My 8kw inverter starts it fine, and I think the 6Kw version would have been fine too.
 Engine driven alternator (gensets, not inverter gensets) have a much larger starting capacity than an equal sized inverter can start

Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: glort on October 15, 2019, 09:34:15 AM

I don't know the exact percentages but I would say it is 50/50 and chances are more of the country uses well water than municipal.

Interesting.  I never realised.  The water must be a lot better there than here.  Most bore water here is very hard. I remember taking my harley to my cousins wedding in the middle of the state where they have bore water that is drinkable, Just, as town water.  I could not wash the bike without the thing getting white spots all over it.  Cousin explained it was the minerals in the bore water. Washed it again and quickly rinsed it from a drum of spare water I bought with me in case of car trouble.  Was fine then and I was able to dry it as normal without the spots. I was pretty surprised how many dissolved minerals there were in it.

Here our water is pretty good overall.  People do complain but often the bad water can be traced to crappy old pipes.  If the water everywhere else in town is good and yours is not.... Kinda narrows the problem down.


[/QUOTE] From what I have seen most properties(in rural areas) are developed with a well and septic system and only abandon them if/when a municipality expands it's distribution system and forces the land owner to connect to their system. In most areas if municipal water/sewer is available you HAVE to connect to it, AND PAY.[/QUOTE]

From an outsiders POV, the US is a pretty interesting and curious place.
For the land of the Free, in many ways it does not seem you are very free at all in many circumstances. It also seems for a very developed country the US is in many ways very backwards.

Here these days only the smallest and most remote outback towns would be on tank water. Rural properties, yes, many on tank water but would be nothing like 50% of places on tank/ bore water.
It also seems odd that such a country would have such a problem with power supply. Not counting this incidence but nothing for people in suburbia to have a whole house generator in the states where they are only just starting to become available here at a retail level.

Quote
People in Colorado have already gotten arrested for collecting and/or diverting rain water. It's not far off when any solar not connected to the grid or solar 'provider' will be illegal, and any generator running other than an emergency power outage will be illegal. Startup up your Listeroid and get busted by your Neighbors. Occupy your bare land (camping, off grid, tiny house) in certain states, without being connected to utilities, illegal.

This is unheard of here.  Getting arrested for having a rain water tank? WTF? I also -heard- that in some places it is illegal to grow your own vegetables and sell them or even give them to a neighbour or anyone else.  That's like a tradition in Oz. Not so long back nearly every home had a veggie garden and neighbours would even collude as to what they were going to grow so as to be able to exchange with their neighbour what they didn't have themselves.
Wow betide any gubbermint that even hinted you couldn't give vegetables to your neighbour or friends!
It's a legal REQUIREMENT  in every state far as I'm aware, that you MUST have a water tank on any new or largely renovated property.

MANY people have blocks of land they put an old shack or caravan on as a weekender holiday place.  Many you may need a building permit or may not be allowed to put a permanent living structure on but for short/ Holiday stays, not a problem.  There is so much land here that's not good for anything else. you can't graze or farm it, what else can you do with otherwise useless land?  You build a Humpy, put in some corrugated iron tanks, Dig a shitter,  maybe bathe in the creek and set up a rough kitchen and think you are in paradise!

There are a lot of things you can do in the US that just wouldn't be attempted here like drive an unregistered car round the streets  but there are so many other things that seem such basic rights/ ways of life to us that are not permitted in the US. We still can't get over the fact you can't drink till you are 21.  Legal age is 18 here and it's policed heavily to stop the 16yo's getting into bars.  Of course I was going anywhere I wanted at 15 and back then I was NEVER questioned or asked for ID.  Couldn't get away with that now.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: broncodriver99 on October 15, 2019, 03:30:28 PM
Interesting.  I never realised.  The water must be a lot better there than here.  Most bore water here is very hard. I remember taking my harley to my cousins wedding in the middle of the state where they have bore water that is drinkable, Just, as town water.  I could not wash the bike without the thing getting white spots all over it.  Cousin explained it was the minerals in the bore water. Washed it again and quickly rinsed it from a drum of spare water I bought with me in case of car trouble.  Was fine then and I was able to dry it as normal without the spots. I was pretty surprised how many dissolved minerals there were in it.

Here our water is pretty good overall.  People do complain but often the bad water can be traced to crappy old pipes.  If the water everywhere else in town is good and yours is not.... Kinda narrows the problem down.

Yes, well water here is usually very good quality. Sometimes it is hard(mineral) but that is easily treatable with a water conditioner. Around here we have shallow wells and artesian wells. Most of the time there is good quality water in a shallow well about 30-35 ft down. In some cases there is a necessity to go deeper with an artesian well of several hundred ft. Well depth varies depending on what part of the country one is in. In the mountainous areas springs are common.

I don't think the US has a problem with power supply. Here on the east coast our grid has been rock solid for as long as I can remember with the only notable outages being due to natural disaster ie. hurricanes. We do get the random outage from severe thunderstorms but it is usually short lived being an hour or less. Our energy supplier is regulated by the state and is required to spend a certain amount on infrastructure per year to prevent problems like they are experiencing in California. I have no doubt that the issues in California are in part due to corporate greed but also of their own doing.

Speaking of natural disasters, that is the biggest driving force behind the average American having a back up generator and some semblance of a plan for self sufficiency. Every part of the country battles severe weather of some sort. Here on the east coast it is hurricanes and tornadoes, in the midwest it is tornadoes, and on the west coast it is flooding and wild fires. Don't get me wrong, there is a huge part of the population that has no plan for anything but many do.

From an outsiders POV, the US is a pretty interesting and curious place.
For the land of the Free, in many ways it does not seem you are very free at all in many circumstances. It also seems for a very developed country the US is in many ways very backwards.

Here these days only the smallest and most remote outback towns would be on tank water. Rural properties, yes, many on tank water but would be nothing like 50% of places on tank/ bore water.
It also seems odd that such a country would have such a problem with power supply. Not counting this incidence but nothing for people in suburbia to have a whole house generator in the states where they are only just starting to become available here at a retail level.

A lot of it is the differences in the continents and population density. Isn't most of Australia's population fairly concentrated in certain coastal area's? Here, a population roughly 13.5 times that of Australia, 330M vs 25M, uses the entire land area roughly 1.25 times the area of Australia, 3.8 Million square miles vs 3 Million. It comes down to logistics and cost effectiveness. In a lot of parts of the country what it would cost a municipality to run water service to rural areas would take longer than the life expectancy of the infrastructure to recoup the expense. And, that is assuming the municipality has a water source sufficient enough to serve their area which isn't always the case.

This is unheard of here.  Getting arrested for having a rain water tank? WTF? I also -heard- that in some places it is illegal to grow your own vegetables and sell them or even give them to a neighbour or anyone else.  That's like a tradition in Oz. Not so long back nearly every home had a veggie garden and neighbours would even collude as to what they were going to grow so as to be able to exchange with their neighbour what they didn't have themselves.
Wow betide any gubbermint that even hinted you couldn't give vegetables to your neighbour or friends!
It's a legal REQUIREMENT  in every state far as I'm aware, that you MUST have a water tank on any new or largely renovated property.

MANY people have blocks of land they put an old shack or caravan on as a weekender holiday place.  Many you may need a building permit or may not be allowed to put a permanent living structure on but for short/ Holiday stays, not a problem.  There is so much land here that's not good for anything else. you can't graze or farm it, what else can you do with otherwise useless land?  You build a Humpy, put in some corrugated iron tanks, Dig a shitter,  maybe bathe in the creek and set up a rough kitchen and think you are in paradise!

There are a lot of things you can do in the US that just wouldn't be attempted here like drive an unregistered car round the streets  but there are so many other things that seem such basic rights/ ways of life to us that are not permitted in the US. We still can't get over the fact you can't drink till you are 21.  Legal age is 18 here and it's policed heavily to stop the 16yo's getting into bars.  Of course I was going anywhere I wanted at 15 and back then I was NEVER questioned or asked for ID.  Couldn't get away with that now.

Don't believe the hype. Rain water collection is pretty common everywhere. There have been cases where some crunchy hippie type has decided to move into the suburbs and disconnect from public utilities in an attempt to live off of the land.  ::) That is where rain catchment, generator power, and sewage come into question. There are some basic standards intended to protect the general public health that are required for the sake of everyone. I tend to agree with most of them. I will say that I definitely don't want my neighbor 40 ft away showering with rain water in their back yard and shitting in an outhouse or 5 gallon bucket. That is the type scenario where these stories come from and they then get used as propaganda for whatever plight someone is trying to protest.

In some areas rain water catchment has become mandatory. Not for use but because with population growth the municipal sewer/storm drain systems are getting overwhelmed. Holding cisterns are being installed below grade to catch rain water until it can percolate into the soil instead of going down the municipal storm drain.

Colorado is an interesting case study. Until about 15 years ago it was a very conservative rural area but has now been inundated by a bunch of hippie type thinkers mainly from California that have definitely changed the status quo. It is definitely creating some issues and changing the way things are done. That is how some of these stories have come about. They are not the norm but a particular instance with an unknown set of circumstances that precipitated a particular outcome. Usually occurring after much interaction between the community, local government, and who knows who else for who knows what reasons.

I am sure there have been cases where local government has overstepped it's authority and one hopes those situations get resolved in court. I have heard of instances where a citizen has sued and been awarded monetary damages where the local government has overstepped.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: BruceM on October 15, 2019, 04:19:17 PM
My Franklin 1/2 HP deep well pump (3 wire, 230V)  runs as rated at 1385VA.  I expect a shallow well version might be different.  I can only dream of water at 35 feet, my standing water level is down at 200ft. The water is quite good for Arizona, which still means very hard.  Its is just good enough to avoid using water softener, etc., which is a big plus for power conservation.

On the issue of inverter surge capability; this varies greatly by design type, and by how much marketing optimism has been applied in the rating process. The old low frequency transformer sine designs such as the long venerated Trace SW series were noted for great motor starting capacity in an era where inverter life was notoriously short.  I use that same basic SW design approach for my 5 step sine inverter using two H-bridges and two 1000W transformers with secondaries in series to shape the sine.  The SW used 3 transformers and high speed switching to make up to 32 steps. I kept just enough steps to get THD down below generators (12%), which lets me use soft (slow) switching to reduce conducted EMI greatly while still having 92% efficiency.  It's designed for 1500W max continuous load.  Because I'm using high permeability core toroidal transformers, and under-rated my soft switching H-bridges,  it starts any motor with 1500W or less for running.  Start surge just doesn't matter.

The high frequency designs vary, but few can touch the surge capability of the old "heavy iron" low frequency Trace SW series. 
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: Hugh Conway on October 15, 2019, 06:41:43 PM
Up here, everyone has a well. shallow or deep (bores to those Ozians) Ours is 500 ft with the pump at 300 ft.
The 3/4 HP 240V submersible pump runs easily using either the 4000W inverter or the listeroid spinning a 3kw PMG. Water quality varies greatly depending on location in what is really a small area. Our immediate neighbour has sulphur water at a similar depth whereas our water is very fine. The wells are about 600 ft apart. We do collect rainfall and gravity feed it for garden use, saves a lot of energy.
There is commercial power available in our area, but we have abandoned it several years ago due to it's unreliability during winter storms (and in summer for no apparent reason) and the forced introduction of "smart meters".
The quality of big box generators seems to vary considerably. I have witnessed a brand new 5kw unit fail to start a 1/2hp shallow well pump that was easily run by a 3kw generator of different make and quality. Our old gas powered Honda 4.5kw gen would comfortably run the 3/4hp deep well pump.
Regarding restrictions on rain water collection, that's certainly not the situation here in west coast Canada, but I do have friends down in California where it can be a quite different story. At their remote location, rain water collection is illegal. They still do it via underground cisterns so no-one has noticed. They also have a creek with a very small dam which was used for their water supply. 2 years ago, a large rainfall washed out the 100 year old dam, now they are prohibited from rebuilding.
No legal dam, nor legal rainwater collection. The water table is so far down that it is not economically feasible to drill a well.
Once again the city dwellers in the state capitol making rules for situations about which they are clueless.
We don't have too many rules here as yet, but the bureaucrats are trying to make up for lost time. Last year they attempted to outlaw any construction within 50 feet of the shoreline. It IS an ISLAND for god's sake, how we access the boats necessary for island life? Even the ferry dock would have been illegal!
Cheers
Hugh
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: guest23837 on October 15, 2019, 09:24:22 PM
Nice to see you back Glort always good reading material.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: veggie on October 16, 2019, 01:55:16 AM
PG&E is stuck between a rock and a hard place.
If they leave the power turned on and a fire starts, they get sued for billions $$$.

If they turn the power off, they are the bad guys.

I think their legal department had a say in this action.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: veggie on October 16, 2019, 02:03:41 AM

Regarding restrictions on rain water collection, that's certainly not the situation here in west coast Canada, but I do have friends down in California where it can be a quite different story. At their remote location, rain water collection is illegal. They still do it via underground cisterns so no-one has noticed. They also have a creek with a very small dam which was used for their water supply. 2 years ago, a large rainfall washed out the 100 year old dam, now they are prohibited from rebuilding.
No legal dam, nor legal rainwater collection. The water table is so far down that it is not economically feasible to drill a well.


Hugh, California is so messed up it's beyond funny. It's totally ridiculous.
BTW ... a 500 ft Well, thats quite deep. Must cost a fortune to drill. Makes me appreciate my 125 ft Well with a static level at 25 ft.  :D

cheers,
Veggie
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: glort on October 16, 2019, 05:04:40 AM

The thing with the power being on and causing fires comes back to the company. Never heard of turning power off here and we have loads of bush, wind,,high temps and power lines.
One then is left wondering if it does not happen here, why is it happening there?

From what i have seen, little question its a self made problem through neglect of infrastructure.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: BruceM on October 16, 2019, 05:11:06 AM
I think it's hilarious we've got a Canadian and an Australian whining about California. I suspect neither has ever lived there. I lived there for a year.  CA has only one problem, and that's that too many people want to live there, so the cost of living is insane.  It sorta proves that the whiners are out to lunch.

As soon as I recovered enough after a medical program there to be able to drive again safely, I came back to AZ.  I couldn't afford just the property taxes on a home there, and I certainly couldn't afford "elbow room" real estate.  There was a rush on land here some years ago, nearly doubling our land prices as middle class Californian's cashed out of their inflated homes there and retired here. 

I'd prefer if we just called a big Whoa! on the breeding and growth, growth, growth.  7 billion is way more than enough.

Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: glort on October 16, 2019, 05:35:05 AM

I dont know if you are not feeling well Bruce or being patroitically defensive but no one is whining at all.... other than a lot of Californians with good reason to be annoyed.  Sorry if what i have said annoys you  but I have made valid observations.  By extrapolation,you are inferring that if i was from commifornia my comments would be valid . I don't  believe anything said here warrants accusing people of whingeing and your indignation is quite out of place.

Having a million  ? people without power in any first world country IS a talking point for observation and criticism both of which are valid and does not make them whinging whether such comments are in line with your position or not.

My friend in cali emailed me this morning lamenting the cost to his business this power outage caused. If one has to be a resident to comment about the situation, ill send you some of his whinging and you can see if you think he is qualified to comment or not.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: mike90045 on October 16, 2019, 07:10:49 AM
I wish I had water from a well.  I drilled 2 holes, both over 200 feet deep, where the water witch said to drill.  Nothing but rock dust and a fat bill from the drilling company.

So I built a pond to collect rain water, and the the darn thing is full of iron.  Dissolved iron is getting into the water and plugs up $200 filters in 2 weeks.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: BruceM on October 16, 2019, 08:09:52 AM
"If the crazy ideals of Commifornians weren't a laughing stock the world over, they would be a lot better off.
Mate of mine that lives there can't stand the place and won't be able to get out fast enough. Right now he has a sick mother to take care of but when that's no longer an issue, he's very keen to start the rest of his life in a place he deems sane."

Seems like incredibly rude, rabid right wing whinging to me, if not just plain nuts.

I lived in S. Cal a year in the mountains, and spent time in the SF area many times on vacations. An ex is from near the Oregon border.  My best friend lives there (SF area) , making a bundle at Oracle after his startup got bought.  I can't afford to live there due to disability but it's a gorgeous state, semi-rational government most of the time, which is about all you can hope for with humans.  California alone is the 5th largest economy in the world, now ahead of the entire UK and much of it is gorgeous with an enviable climate.   The state is solvent and stable.  It's done amazing things in improving the air and water quality. It's population is hugely diverse, ethnically, to me a big plus.  I only wish I could afford to live there.  I certainly like California's ideals better than yours, Glort.













Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: glort on October 16, 2019, 09:49:57 AM
Seems like incredibly rude, rabid right wing whinging to me, if not just plain nuts.

Seems to me you are now whinging about those you accuse of whinging because they don't share your views.


Whatever one wants to believe, The fact a state has had a blackout affecting a reported Million people, has serious issues and that's a fact.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: glort on October 16, 2019, 09:53:49 AM
Dissolved iron is getting into the water and plugs up $200 filters in 2 weeks.

That's some powerful expensive water!
Would it be cheaper to have better water brought in?
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: oldgoat on October 16, 2019, 01:21:06 PM
You could try letting it run into an open tank and depending on the dissolved minerals it may oxidise and sink to the bottom.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: broncodriver99 on October 16, 2019, 01:58:56 PM
I wish I had water from a well.  I drilled 2 holes, both over 200 feet deep, where the water witch said to drill.  Nothing but rock dust and a fat bill from the drilling company.

So I built a pond to collect rain water, and the the darn thing is full of iron.  Dissolved iron is getting into the water and plugs up $200 filters in 2 weeks.

Ouch. Aren't you in Northern California? Were there any obstacles to building your catchment pond as far as local government or regulation? Depending on the type of iron around here they would use a softener to remove the iron or oxidize and filter.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: veggie on October 16, 2019, 02:49:30 PM

I'd prefer if we just called a big Whoa! on the breeding and growth, growth, growth.  7 billion is way more than enough.

Totally agree BruceM. The ultimate issue is population.
Which leads to ... over fishing, over farming, over mining, ... over ....over ....over.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: BruceM on October 16, 2019, 05:20:18 PM
What I object to is the rabid attack on California as "communist" and a laughingstock of the world.  I suspect about half the world would be glad to be living in CA, which is part of why their population growth is so high, and thus the severe problem of cost of housing. Many people also move there for better tolerance, of race, religion and sexual orientation, which I find admirable and sure hasn't hurt their economy, strongest in the US, 5th in the whole world.  Racist's and homophobic folks hate this and the legal protections offered by CA.  This is often the hidden reason why CA is attacked.
 
It has nothing to do with the topic of PG&E mismanagement and power outage.  It's just hatred.

 



Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: LowGear on October 16, 2019, 06:18:25 PM
Nice rants.  In the nicest of meanings.

Too many people.  Yup.  I'm betting on a big sickness or incredible war over rational thinking as a resolution.  Or a combination?  Too bad corporate capitalism can't figure out how to make an acceptable living without counting on an infinitely growing market.  The down side of a life solution based on greed.

OK.  I'm a capitalist.  I don't have a corporate avatar.  Just cheese sandwich me and the corporate monsters.  I've adjusted my lifestyle to fit my market income.  Don't let it get around as i don't want to be harassed as all socialist democratic thinkers must be.  Keep America Great Always!  Is that the new chant now that we've had such great leadership?  The greatest leadership you've ever seen.  Some of you may doubt how great it's been but trust me, he who knows, the one, it's been the greatest ever.

The good news is that as people make more money their child count goes down dramatically.  Now if only we had an infinite world.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: glort on October 16, 2019, 10:33:53 PM
What I object to is the rabid attack on California as "communist" and a laughingstock of the world.

No, What you are really objecting to is someone having a different outlook to your own and making up assertions to justify it.
It is not "hatred" as you embellish and sensationalise it at all, it's just a different viewpoint to your own which these days is deemed to be offensive to a lot of people hell bent on having their way of thinking considered to be the ONLY way of thinking anyone should have.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: glort on October 16, 2019, 11:10:49 PM

Too many people.  Yup.  I'm betting on a big sickness or incredible war over rational thinking as a resolution.  Or a combination?  Too bad corporate capitalism can't figure out how to make an acceptable living without counting on an infinitely growing market.  The down side of a life solution based on greed.


The good news is that as people make more money their child count goes down dramatically.  Now it only we had an infinite world.

Research also shows that as people have better living standards they become more environmentally concerned and they pay more attention to their surroundings and want to keep them cleaner. I agree totaly in that the ideal is to maintain living standard without the endless growth which should not really be that hard.

The never ending growth model is something pushed very hard in corporate business. Unless one has seen it first hand I doubt a lot of people would realise the pressure placed on their employees with that. Budgets are raised endlessly and they are expected to be met for no other reason than growth.

Anyone not fixated on profits can see there has to be an end and a breaking point.  Instead of those in the green environmental movement carrying on about a problem for which there is no practical, realistic and workable solution's to, they would be far better off addressing problems like over population, plastic in the oceans and other things rather than the whole globull warming ideal which really is taking attention away from problems that do have a possibility to be fixed and help the planet in doing so.

There are 3 main risks I see in the world today and the endless population growth is top of the list because pretty much everything else stems from and is multiplied by that.

One problem we are seeing here with power supply is exactly that. They are throwing up homes ( and prison cells called units) fast as they can and of course wanting to stuff them full of every useless consumer good possible and 3 TV's as large as windows or doors. Insulation standards are basic but we can sell you AC for that.  The problem is now becoming that the demand of a lot of homes is becoming more than the stretched resources of the power companies will allow.  They are limiting the amperage allocation of homes because they firstly dont want to invest in the infrastructure to allow the higher traditional amperage connections and secondly, with all the latest leftist thinking going hell bent into unreliable, there isn't the power available  in the first place.

To me it is an absoloute corporate and environmental crime that solar and wind farms are allowed to be built more often than not hundreds of miles from where the power is needed yet right in the middle of suburbia and citys, there are virtually unlimited rooftops that sit there bare just begging to be utilised with some panels that would make not one bit of difference to the landscape or ruin the outlook as these " farms" do.

I hit a new generation record the other day from my own solar setup of 82 KWh in a day. I expect once I get the rest of my panels up and add another 5 Kw inverter I'll do better still. Can't do much more because I just upgraded the wiring on my side and now the weak point is the power co's lines.

What I'm producing  means I'm probably providing enough power to cover my neighbour either sides power requirements as well as my own. I can run My big AC, be comfortable and still be contributing to our failing grid,  If everyone had panels then we could be also powering the shopping centres, hospitals, treatment works and businesses around and we could have reliable coal power at night and still have a fraction of the emissions that will never be met by farmed unreliables as well as a consistency of supply.  But the greenwashed aren't happy with helpful soloutions, it's all or nothing and they play right into the hands of the corporate whom they don't get are at complete odds to their agendas no matter what lip service they pay to appease them.

Even a bit of self sufficiency from Evey home where practical would greatly ease the problems that many places now have with power supply.

The whole reason this isn't and will never be implemented is simply corprate greed. They don't want you to have your own power and reduce your need and them and their profits. If they build these farms they an get massive handouts from gubbermint and sell you the power as well.... after trashing the landscape with turdbines and panels and then hundreds of miles of transmission lines.

The greenwashed champion this sort of stupidity but completely miss the opportunity and the detriment to the environment that this BS is responsible for.

Right now those going mad trying to save the planet are largely responsible for defacing it and ruining natural landscapes but they are too brainwashed and fixated on an ideal to see the bigger picture. 
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: BruceM on October 17, 2019, 01:21:17 AM
No, Glort. Using snide names for California and calling it a laughingstock of the world as a non-American isn't an "opinion" of any value to anyone. An opinion would be expressing how you think various policies have adversely affected power management.  You're just rationalizing your spleen venting, and trying to feel better about yourself by tearing down others.  That's your specialty, and it's why you are on this unmoderated forum. 

I think 38AC was right about the need for moderation.  It's not the same for me here without him. The education in following his projects was priceless.













Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: glort on October 17, 2019, 06:24:03 AM
No, Glort. Using snide names for California and calling it a laughingstock of the world

I didn't come up with the name Bruce, it's widespread term ESPECIALLY among other residents, including my mate who LIVES there.


Quote
as a non-American isn't an "opinion" of any value to anyone.

If I get my friend from Cali to tell you what he has told me, that would be different or would he still be wrong in your opinion?
The irony of saying my opinion is of no value because I'm not American is horribly hypocritical and in fact racist. You whinge and accuse others of this but perhaps you should check your own comments are not as offensive as you protest those of others being. 

Quote
An opinion would be expressing how you think various policies have adversely affected power management.

You ignored a lot of what I said to that end and just want to whinge about one small part you don't like.

I have no idea why you are making so much of some off handed general comments and in return have made it a personal witch hunt.  I insulted no one in particular or personally but you like others here seem very over sensitive to any opinion other than your own.

Quote
You're just rationalizing your spleen venting, and trying to feel better about yourself by tearing down others.  That's your specialty, and it's why you are on this unmoderated forum. 
I think 38AC was right about the need for moderation.  It's not the same for me here without him. The education in following his projects was priceless.

As far as venting and trying to make myself feel better, I'm not the one making a big drama out of some non personal off hand comments and then making the self same remarks I complain about being offended by. YOU are the one getting personal and upset over something that's not even something you have a personal stake in.

There is a LOT you don't know about me or what I have been through in life.  If you think repeating a few widespread terms and opinions here is going to make me feel better, I really wish you were right.  Unfortunately for me, you are not.

The sister site to this had the same sort of overly pedantic moderation as you are proposing and that didn't exactly work well for the sites growth.

I don't know why my comments seem to upset some people but it appears often they are just looking for something to be upset about.
I'm not going to tippy toe around to suit others delicate sensibilities when I have no problem with what I say in normal social situations. This PC mentality is ridiculous and I won't further it and pander to those that perpetuate such a mentality. 

We are all grown men here, I think we should act like it rather than getting upset at every little irrelevant comment.



Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: dkmc on October 17, 2019, 06:40:21 AM

Well, you guys aren't exactly slinging acid, but you sure know how to Fart in each others general direction.

 :o
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: glort on October 17, 2019, 07:04:57 AM

Well, you guys aren't exactly slinging acid, but you sure know how to Fart in each others general direction.

 :o

It's OK, I'm done.
We have in the past tried to help each other ( well Bruce has probably helped me more than I have helped him) and agreed on quite a bit but I guess we have found a point of disagreement.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: BruceM on October 17, 2019, 08:40:21 AM
Amen.


Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: mike90045 on October 17, 2019, 03:20:32 PM
Kalifornia is in a downward spiral.  The whole thing is topsy turvey.
 San Francisco is the leader of insanity, followed by Santa Monica & Vence
Because of folks living in tents and using drugs, the sidewalks are nearly impassible, solution -
Ban private cars from main street
 Plastic pollution ending up in ocean - Ban straws, but it's ok to hand out sterile needles with plastic syringes, to be discarded on the beach sand.  You HAVE to wear shoes to the beach, or risk stepping on a used needle.
Water from rivers being sold to southern kalifornia - Prohibit using water from the river in my backyard, so there is enough to go around.   
Dammed Sonoma Dodder plants ( grape vines )  are sucking up water like mad, but the salmon are dying off

Stores cant install backup power generators, because the fees, permits and regulations cost more annually than the expenses from blackouts.
We cant allow the trees by power lines to be trimmed, so we must shut off the power for 3 days for your safety

The state is seething with example after example of idiots leading the way downhill.

Born and lived here all my life, but it's now become a loony bin

Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: dkmc on October 17, 2019, 03:40:19 PM
Stores cant install backup power generators, because the fees, permits and regulations cost more annually than the expenses from blackouts.

I saw that in a vid earlier this week. Grocery store ended up giving away the contents of the freezers.
That just seems totally unjust......and complete lunacy. The MAN wants to be in total control of you, and needs you to be helpless.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: LowGear on October 17, 2019, 04:12:14 PM
So where are they doing it right?  Shed some light. 
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: dkmc on October 17, 2019, 04:30:32 PM
So where are they doing it right?  Shed some light.

Good question.....
What is 'right'??
AFAIK even in New York State, you are allowed to purchase, install, and operate an emergency generator with no 'fees'.
I'm sure the install must meet electrical codes, and possibly a building permit may be required, but those are standard.
There are many businesses of all sizes around here with back up generators.
I'd like to know what all IS required in Cali, that it makes loosing an entire store freezer section less costly than having
a back up gen set.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: mikenash on October 17, 2019, 05:35:11 PM
So where are they doing it right?  Shed some light.

We've got some of it right-ish here, although a combination of Free Market influences on government policy and pendulum-swung-too-far Green/Liberal influences on legislation are threatening . . .

However anyone can and does collect rainwater or run a permit-free domestic water bore.  Business folks are encouraged to run back-up generators in recognition of the run-down infrastructure (that Free Market stuff again) and in recognition of the increase in severe weather events

Communities are encouraged to develop resiliance (the aforementioned Free Market Model has allowed roading & other essential infrastructure to degrade as contractior/utility companies have pocketed huge profits) and initiatives around solar, small-community wireless internet etc are common

As a nation we are grappling with how to reverse the degradation of our natural resources that is the result of a century of exploitation - without damaging the economy too badly

It's not that place it used to be (although I guess old folks always say that) but it's still a great place to live
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: mike90045 on October 17, 2019, 07:22:44 PM
After you get a permit for a emergency backup generator (limited to <200 hours operation per year )
http://www.aqmd.gov/home/permits/emergency-generators#Fact4

And pay all the local, state and AQMD ( Air Quality Management District )   you can then begin to pursue the purchase and installation of a generator.  Do not even pour the concrete pad to allow for proper cure time, you will be in volition, until you have the permit.
    and it just gets worse....   So basically, only Hospitals have backup generation.
And don't forget to renew that permit......

Our last outage (Oct 9 2019) lasted for about 3 days, 72 hours of your generator time gone.  It's not unusual to get 2 to 4 Santa Anna / Diablo wind events each fall.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/california-wildfires/article/PG-E-power-shut-off-Diablo-winds-to-blame-for-14501564.php
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: LowGear on October 18, 2019, 10:21:30 AM
I'm totally underwhelmed. 

I ask again.  Where are they doing it right?

I guess I'm really asking for a rational definition of "right".  Let's stick with backup generators.  (I hear they pollute on many levels.)

What would you think of requiring an instillation of one kilowatt of solar for every kilowatt of generator capacity?  Do we temper the requirements for propane generators over diesel?

On a sidebar; does anyone know the justification / rational of banning rainwater collection and storage?
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: glort on October 18, 2019, 01:14:17 PM

Born and lived here all my life, but it's now become a loony bin

Guess it's not what's said but who says it.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: mike90045 on October 18, 2019, 05:42:51 PM
I'm totally underwhelmed. 

I ask again.  Where are they doing it right? 
  I don't know, I've not been there.
More right, would be to allow the use of a generator, in an emergency.  Not a 2 hour outage, but in a situation where the grid has failed and it's more than 6 hours before it's expected to return.  if I ran a food store, and my inventory was about to spoil, and it takes 2 years to get a business insurance claim cleared, that would be an emergency and I would want to start a generator to preserve my investment.  Or to be able to pump gasoline for the next 3 days.   Or to keep the kidney dialysis center open and cleaning folks blood.



Quote
I guess I'm really asking for a rational definition of "right".  Let's stick with backup generators.  (I hear they pollute on many levels.) 
 
 They do pollute.  So in an emergency, is it better to have 1 big generator parked at a sub-station feeding the local grid, or folks at random, wiring generators up to their house, spilling gasoline, putting a generator under a window and die from CO poisoning ?

Quote
What would you think of requiring an instillation of one kilowatt of solar for every kilowatt of generator capacity?  Do we temper the requirements for propane generators over diesel?
Nice idea, solar only works 6 hours of the day, generator has to pick that slack up at night.

Quote
On a sidebar; does anyone know the justification / rational of banning rainwater collection and storage?
Control of worker drones?
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: glort on October 18, 2019, 10:24:31 PM
I guess I'm really asking for a rational definition of "right".  Let's stick with backup generators.  (I hear they pollute on many levels.)

What about the health aspect?
With so many people apparently having wells.  Without power, no water, no sanitation.  Given the scale of the outage I don't know if even town water was available.  Disease is also a big concern in any emergency.

Then there is the food and Fuel supply issue.
This outage lasted 3-4?  Days. What if it was hot and windy for a fortnight? People could easy run out of food and water and die from the heat without power and shops would have thrown good food out because they couldn't keep it.  People may also not be abe to get to what was available.

And all this risk because the gubbermeint there is concerned about some air pollution which would be so small as to be completely immeasurable anyway. That is irresponsible and illogical to put some ideal before the health and safety of a million citizens.

What would be logical if they are so against people having generators would be to ENSURE the power supply was as well maintained and reliable as possible which they clearly haven't done.

Anyone that wants to live in a place that won't let it's citizens have a basic amount of self sufficiency with power and water can have it far as i'm concerned and they can be as upset as they like about that statement.  What is more important that the well being and safety of a states citizens especially in times of emergency?
Certainly not some narrow minded and very temporary air pollution  concern!

As far as solar, I'm hoping to get my hands on a board that has been made for developing countries to supply 1.2Kw of power direct from solar panels with or without battery backup.  They are 12 or 24V based so could be hooked up to a battery in a  car or truck. Something my Nephew has developed and his company has sold it to a few asian countries so far.  He's working on MkII and he has offered me some to play with for product testing and evaluation.

I am thinking about trying to sell them in the western market because I can see a LOT of use for them in situations like this and just as on off grid application where batteries are not needed. The next generation of board he is working on will be aiming for around the 2 KW mark.  Even if only used direct from panels, that's a real good amount of power to be able to run pumps and refrigeration from.

I spose calipornia would want some hefty licensing fees to throw some panels on your lawn in an emergency as well.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: dkmc on October 18, 2019, 11:11:09 PM
I spose calipornia would want some hefty licensing fees to throw some panels on your lawn in an emergency as well.

Naw, outlaw them completely as well. The sooner the sheeple get hungry and thirsty, the sooner and easier it is to control them or round them up. Is it possible this shut-off exercise was a test to see how they handled themselves? Gotta be room for just one more conspiracy theory....
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: glort on October 19, 2019, 07:42:57 AM

I don't disregard as anything being too far fetched for possibility these days. The more far fetched something sounds the greater it's natural inbuilt cover I think.

In this case though I think it may have just been arse protecting.  They know they have let their infrastructure get run down, they have been blamed for their neglect causing problems before, this was a perfect excuse to scare people into letting them get away with said neglect and it's ramifications and have them say nothing.

Case of you complained when we didn't cut power, you complained when we did cut it, which way you want it?
Great way to distract attention from the fact the grid never should have been allowed to get into the state it is in anyway.  Now it has, chances are they will ask the gubbermint for huge handouts to get it back the way it should be had they spent the money they should have rather than syphoning it off into payouts for directors and Shareholders.

Not just commifornia companies that work this way, seem to be a mindset of business whom are playing gubbermints more than ever.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: LowGear on October 19, 2019, 09:10:25 PM
I have tried to lead you to the fresh water.  It is to splash upon your head rather than drink it; it can do more good. 

I have an apartment house (five units) which is on a well.  The power went out for 5 days.  I couldn't get any repair priority because the rules don't have any exceptions for wells.  This is one of the problems with city people writing the rules that quasi country folk have to live with.  I'll find the power requirements and start a thread about which generator or battery pack to install that will be exercised every couple of years.

I still hope for some good or smart examples of how some bureaucracy is handling emergency power.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: guest23837 on October 19, 2019, 11:15:31 PM
Different countries have different rules. In Ireland you are allowed a generator but it has to be connected properly by a certified qualified electrician at huge expense. My generator can be connected at short notice by an unapproved method that supplies the house perfectly well. If I can caught I face a €10,000.00 fine or 6 months imprisonment or both.

I have a well it's 165 feet deep and the water is hard as nails but I have a water softener and filter so it comes out of the tap fine. If mains water (government supplied) is available you have to use it no choice. At the moment there is only a charge for excess water usage but that's likely to change. I have no access to mains water so I use the well however the state owns everything  under the house so they can meter and charge me for water pumped and cleaned at my expense if they want to, and in the future they probably will. You own only 1 metre below any land or property you have.

Rainwater harvesting is encouraged for gardens, washing cars etc in a rural area it would be very difficult to police if it was illegal anyway. Putting up solar panels or a wind turbine without the proper paperwork is impossible and the paperwork, permits etc isn't easily got nor is it cheap.

I also have a septic tank which has an annual inspection charge. Interestingly the gubbermint (thanks Glort great word) gave me a 5 year derogation if 5 years inspection charges were paid in advance, figure that one out!
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: AdeV on October 20, 2019, 12:05:32 AM
You own only 1 metre below any land or property you have.

Is that still Ireland you're talking about? I ask because I understood the situation in Ireland was you basically owned a column of Earth the same size/shape as your patch of land, all the way down to the middle...

Here in the UK, I believe we own the top 6ft of any land, everything below (and all mineral rights regardless of depth, or lack thereof) are owned by the Crown, unless specifically sold.

When it comes to extracting water, I don't believe we need licences or anything like that, but we do have to pay "abstraction charges" in order to extract water in the first place. It's not metered, that I am aware of. We also have to pay to have water removed from our land - any rain run-off  is considered to be grey water, and is sent to the water treatment works for release back into the nearest river/sea. This is charged based on a % of your water consumption (if you're on a meter), or rateable value of the property (a formula based on the value of your house, if you're not on a meter), or the size of the property for commercial premises. It's all ridiculously complicated, and mostly exists to keep a government department employed, I suspect.

I don't believe there are any restrictions on generators (other than noise nuisance laws, which a badass gen set might fall foul of) in the UK, but if you want to hook up an automatic switchover from grid power, it would have to be installed by a qualified electrician, and must use a break-before-make switch, to prevent any chance of back-feeding the local grid from your genset.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: guest23837 on October 20, 2019, 12:23:19 AM
Ade as far as I know you own 1 meter used to be 3 feet before decimalisation under your property, the rest belongs to the state.  A few years ago they tried to bring in water charges but they made a total mess of it, which is fairly typical in Ireland. During the debate the government was "actively considering" charging people with wells as the water under your house is their water. Currently only mains water is metered and only "excessive use" is charged but I believe they have new plans coming down the line. They created a huge bureaucratic machine called Irish water that needs funds, not for water infrastructure but wages perks bonuses etc.
Any run-off here goes into a small stream at the bottom of a field and the government owns all the streams waterways etc, probably explains why rivers aren't dredged banks cleared etc
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: glort on October 20, 2019, 12:56:11 AM
Here you can have a generator providing it is hooked up by a licenced sparky if hard wired. No restrictions on running portables especially in emergency's.
I spoke to my sparky a few weeks ago about putting a change over switch on my house. I am thinking of building a gen shed at the end of the house which will be below ground level for the neighbour on that side and should be easy to keep quiet and close to the meter box so it's not expensive to set up.

There are a lot of rules about noise and other thing but they are only policed, sometimes, when there are complaints. The key is to get on with your Neighbours.  I have got real lucky here and have some good ones either side if not so great across the street.  I could get away with virtually anything here like I did in other placed I lived because in 2 years we have been here they love me.  I collect mail and water gardens whole they are on holidays, Race in and pick up aged mothers that have fallen in the house and the daughter can't pick up, Run errands, give them Fruit and Veg I have grown, Put out and bring in bins, Look after pets and just keep an eye out for them.

They would never complain about me because for one thing, I would be careful NOT to annoy them even if what I was doing was not strictly Kosher.
Unlike the former owner here, I try hard to be considerate and if I am not sure of anything, I ask, Do you mind if I do this or will this annoy you?
Most of the time they tell me it's my place I can do what I like or they never heard/ saw or would be happy if I did do it.... Thats been a common one with the amount of trees I have pulled out of here which I'm not supposed to do unless with a permit no one ever gets.

Water saving is real big here, especially seeing once again the country is in a drought and the water is running out fast in the citys as well.  Haven't built a dam here in 50 years but they have multiplied the population about 8X since the last one and wondering why we are running out of warming.  NO, it's not globull warming, even by the alarmist scientists admission.
Neighbour and I have a bunch of tanks, I have brought home a few IBC's for him and put a heap round myself. Obvious thing I have discovered is they only work once till it rains again and if there is no rain.....

I have a Bio cycle which is in effect an aerated septic that allows the waste water to be broken down by natural processes and pumped out the end as quite clean water. It's a bit heavy on the power side of things but I have enough panels to cover that 100X over so I couldn't care less. What it does give me is very nutrient rich water for the lawn and garden which I can water everything with bar the Vegetables and Fruit. The water does not seep away but is pumped out. Instead of letting it go just on the lawn as normal, I have 2x 1000L tanks I pump it into and then pump from there to wherever I want to use it.
 I have been watering the Veggie patches with it when there is nothing growing to try and keep the nutrient level in the soil up and give any bacteria a chance to break down before anything is planted. Plants have done well and we haven't died so I guess all is good.
This covers a lot of our water needs and as a mate says, we get to use the water twice. Once for cooking, bathing etc in the house, the other for the garden. Think I like about it most is the pump and 1" Hose I have really lays down some water and I can do the water as fast or slow as I like at the time depending if I am just enjoying the late afternoon or I want to get the job done.

Panels here are not regulated off grid at all. On grid you simple need approval from the power co's as to the amount you want to feed in.  More to do with their lost revenue than anything else. If you are not back feeding then as far as I'm aware you just need the system installed by a licenced sparky with solar accreditation and get it certified it's to standard. Most placed here have up to 5KW backfeed but if you have a zero back feed inverter you can have all the panels you can fit basicaly.

Batteries here are Highly encouraged.  Stupid idea for people on grid with the inflated cost here but none the less, gubberment policy encourages them at every opportunity. Great cash cow for the industry whom pay Gubberment taxes as well so good all round... except for the home owner.

Thanks to the greenwashed policy's and rabble rousing by road gluing morons, we are facing severe power shortages this summer in 4 of the 5 states on the national grid ( which isn't national at all because 2 states go it alone... and have no problems) so the sound of generators will be a common thing.
It would be REAL difficult for any state gubbermint to ban generators when they have installed  Diesel burning turbines that suck 80,000 Litres of Diesel an HOUR to keep the lights on when all the unreliable generation they have put in falls over as it has in the past and they know it will again.
So much for cheap clean power from unreliables.

One needs a licence to sink a bore here but I'm not aware of any fees other than some BS annual inspection fee. Mate had a bore sunk about 6 Months ago which cost him  $15K but cheaper than bring water in by truck to water horses and paddocks. He's dug a siezeable dam on his property and will use that to hold the water than can pump from there.  Probably going to have a lot of the local Deer, Kangas, and other wildlife using it as a watering hole as well.


Looking at it, I spose our gubberment is pretty good in encouraging people to be in effect as self sufficient as they can and they certainly don't have the oppressive control mentality  other places do. .
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: LowGear on October 20, 2019, 07:21:07 PM
Sorry.  I can't let it pass.

Quote
Interestingly the gubbermint (thanks Glort great word)
I thought I should mention that "gubbermint" isn't always well received here in the states.  Lots of baggage that I won't go into now as most of us are trying to play nice with others.

Aloha
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: LowGear on October 20, 2019, 07:31:52 PM
Back on topic:

There are many restrictions In Washington state, USA too on domestic water wells.  I'm being screwed around by them as I write.  Generally speaking you can stay on your private well until there is public water available and you need something like a mortgage or building permit.  You must destroy your well once the public water is turned on to your residence.  Not even garden use of the well is permitted.

My neighbor has an uncertified well and the county is enforcing a 100 foot covenant on a 40 foot lot which means much of my lot is near unusable regardless of permits and agreements and covenants not being on record.  Almost moves me to use the "gubbermint " word.  I'm grinning - I hope you are.

Oh, and the barking female person that owns the well won't let me hook up.  Now I know you're grinning.

Aloha
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: guest23837 on October 20, 2019, 09:30:29 PM
Sorry.  I can't let it pass.

Quote
Interestingly the gubbermint (thanks Glort great word)
I thought I should mention that "gubbermint" isn't always well received here in the states.  Lots of baggage that I won't go into now as most of us are trying to play nice with others.

Aloha

TBH I thought Glort made up that word I just looked it up when I read your message.

I'm one of those people that hates all politicians and the only politician I ever quote is Enoch Powell he said all political careers ends in failure. This should be a consolation to anyone that supports any political party of any colour, the opposition politicians career will end in failure. You have to ignore the fact that your preferred  candidate will have the same fate, something people seem very keen to do.

 Jeremy Paxman, who has to be one of the greatest interviewer of politicians ever said that when he starts an interview his first thought is "why is this bastard lying to me". I can find no fault with his thinking.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: mike90045 on October 21, 2019, 04:24:52 AM
....

I still hope for some good or smart examples of how some bureaucracy is handling emergency power.

From the PG&E website
https://abc7news.com/society/list-places-to-go-during-potential-pg-e-power-shutoff/5603619/
Mendocino County
    * 1775 N. State Street, Ukiah 95482

As seen on the below map, this address is an empty lot.   There was a ordinary 4 wheel pickup truck with slide-in camper shell, a 10'x10' pop-up tent, and a ice chest with bottled water.  This was the center for the county seat with about 17,000 residents.  Ha !!

https://www.google.com/maps/place/1775+N+State+St,+Ukiah,+CA+95482/@39.1745421,-123.2115556,1813m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x808164d6f0f5246b:0xa05bf69580d6813e!8m2!3d39.1731115!4d-123.2105256
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: mike90045 on October 30, 2019, 03:24:04 AM
 getting real !!

For my town, the PSPS started Saturday 26th 5:30pm.  (PG&E's euphemism for "in the interest of public safety, since our system cannot operate safely in a 30 mph wind, we will turn off the power)

Gas stations and grocery stores are down.   City water & sewer running on backup generators.   All of Mendocino County (and 20+ other counties in nor calif) is offline. Most of the cell towers are in remote locations and after today (72hours) may be getting ready to run out of fuel.  A couple business had backup generators in place, but about 25% are now offline, mostly mechanical failure, and one was stolen and towed away.  We are looking at Thursday 31st AM as the first reasonable expectation to start getting power back. That will be 120 hours (5 days) and well into a maintenance cycle for generators having been run 24/7
No refrigerated goods at all. 
Safeway is selling dry goods off the shelf by flashlight and cash only.
Costco in Ukiah brought in a generator to run the gas pumps 24/7 to the general public, but it failed after 20 hours, and a replacement is in the works.
 
Late this afternoon, smoke started arriving, which will impact my solar harvest tomorrow.   Most of the town is going to have PTSD.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: glort on October 30, 2019, 08:50:13 AM
Incredible!

A 30 MPH wind wouldn't even rate a mention here let alone cause a power shutdown of that length and magnitude.

Arent you coming into winter there? I thought this was a summer thing.  What happens if you actualy get bad weather in winter? Thongs will get real serious then.

Looks like to live in Cali everyone is going to need a generator and a weeks supply of fuel for it, their vehicles and a weeks Food and water as well.
Mate only emailed me this morning saying he can't wait to get the hell out the place.  I can well see why.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: mike90045 on December 14, 2019, 07:11:28 AM
Winter has finally arrived, and with 7" of rain, fire danger is now quite low, unless you are a politician, in which case, pants are mostly on fire ( Liar Liar, pants on fire. goes the rhyme )

6-8 days 90% cloud cover, and am running the clone daily for 2 hours or so, and giving a squirt of water/IPA down the intake for a couple minutes.  Gave it a nice oil change with some synthetic oil

The beat goes on.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: glort on December 14, 2019, 09:55:38 AM

We just had a
Winter has finally arrived, and with 7" of rain, fire danger is now quite low, unless you are a politician, in which case, pants are mostly on fire ( Liar Liar, pants on fire. goes the rhyme )

Just had a "disagreement " with the director of the local University Vet Clinic over an animal we had there.
 They evacuated the Vet Hospital over a week ago because of "Fires" in the area and wanted to charge us for housing the animal because they couldn't do the operation.  I pointed out that there were no fires in the area and hadn't been any within cooee of the place.   The guy got back to me with a map that showed fires 6 KM away from the place 8 Days ago. I pointed out that everything between the fire and the hospital in that 6 KM was cleared paddocks, housing estates and roads... and my house.  NO bush to burn.

Pointed out where I live round the corner and  between him and the fires, Told him I was well aware of them as I had been where they were helping a mate  and challenged him to provide any notice from the fire authority they should evacuate as we hadn't. I  said whom ever made the decision to evacuate and then not come back was incompetent or lying to him. Either way, we weren't paying for the Unnecessary stay and the operation could have been performed at the Vets where the animal was sent. 

They also gave a a LOT of conflicting information after he got onto someone and they were emailing us direct obviously without him being aware and his version and theirs were entirely different.
In asking what the hell was going on and pointing out their incompetence, questioning the care of the animal , their ineptitude at keeping us informed what was happening and the conflicting info, They did the desexing and didn't charge us any more.  First smart move they made.

Being a university I'm hardly surprised they took PC lefty over cautious approach but trying to profit about $1400 out of it I wasn't going to wear.
We normally use another part of the hospital and they have been great but the Exotic Division leaves something to be desired.  The guy running it seems OK but his staff clearly need sorting out.


Are you running Diesel or waste oil in your engine?

We have been lucky so far.  Few hot days probably helped by the smoke cover and the fact the fires have taken so many people off grid there is probably more than normal power to go round.  Come Jan/ Feb, when we get a week of 40o+ weather in a row, I expect power shortages.
REALLY been frustrated trying to find a suitable Gen head here.  At least half a dozen engines and nothing to drive with them other than the Big IMAG.
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: mike90045 on December 15, 2019, 07:40:39 AM
Sold the wife on the generator idea, because it would burn bio-diesel.  Then 2 years later, the bio-diesel plant closed, and I can't get it anymore, so I'm running pump diesel with 200:1 2-stroke oil added ( we have ultra low sulfur diesel which causes lube problems in old engines )
 When the weather is consistently below freezing day and night, I'll add a bit of gasoline to the diesel to help it light off in the cold
Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: LowGear on December 15, 2019, 07:46:36 PM
The two stroke oil seems just a bit over kill but I probably worry more about dirty air than most others.  The 10% gasoline goes along with my beliefs however I thought it was to ease the load on the fuel pumps more than ignition.

I actually had my dump truck on the road this week.  Once they set for a few months the problems seem to escalate.  New wiper posts, replacement fuel tank, rear tires, rat nest attack and remembering how to drive a unit that your ass is directly above the front tire have all taken some time to overcome.  This week down to the local safety inspector and then, hopefully, let the mulch (green waste the county collects, thrashes, and loads onto your truck) rain down again. 

The big lesson to me is that if you're going to do raw vegetable oil make sure you're tidy about it and don't use mature oil.  I definitely put the 10% gasoline in and some lubrication additive if I wasn't thinning it with bio diesel.  I bring this up because as you're dumping that $3+ a gallon diesel in the tank it might be very tempting to pour in some "free" recovered vege oil.  Both will soften the diesel exhaust smell.

Title: Re: California power outages......anyone running on Lister-roid power?
Post by: glort on December 16, 2019, 08:04:16 AM
so I'm running pump diesel with 200:1 2-stroke oil added ( we have ultra low sulfur diesel which causes lube problems in old engines ) The 2 stroke is a good idea but just adding Veg oil will raise the lubricity of Diesel out of sight.  I won't run straight diesel in anything. Gives me the heeybegeebys so I ALWAYS add some veg oil in with it. Modern diesel is so dry it's not much better than water.

You can easily and safely run Veg oil, new or used in your engine. If it's cold the addition of 5-10% ULP/RUG will help with bringing the timing of the ignition forward closer to where Diesel would be and give better performance and cleaner burning. I have experimented with it over hundreds of thousands on KM over the last 17 years in my vehicles and there is no question it works.  Very few people ever advance their pump timing but Petrol in the oil does that very well.  I do not recommend going over 15%, it starts to make power fall off. 

You can easily add 50% to diesel without thinking about it to get your Fuel costs down. The pumps in these old engines have no problem with Veg at all. People in the UK use new oil because it's cheaper than diesel there. If that was the case where you are this is another alternative but why pay for something you can get for free?

I have been running straight Veg in my little Kubota engine and it seems to love it. I don't even see any haze let alone smoke except of course when I start the thing which it did when I got it on diesel anyway.  Thing runs like a watch. I like a more constant or timed water injection but squirting water ever run would probably do the job well enough.  Any old oil will work in these engines as long as it is filtered to 10 UM or under and prefrably Dried.
Removing the water from the oil is something I'm real big on and also is a performance booster in power and starting.  Surprisingly, I have not found wet ( Non dried oil) to help with keeping deposits at bay but the problems it can cause in the tank, lines, pump and injectors wouldn't be worth it if it did.

I have just done an initial filter on about 150L of Oil. Poured it out the drums it came in, crumbs and rubbish and all into another drum with a felt Lining. after the first 2 Drums the crap slowed it right down even though it's pretty warm days here. That's fine, the slower it goes through the better it comes out as those particles slowing the flow also make the passages finer and the oil cleaner.  From here I'll put it through my Processor which will filter it down to 5 Um and dry it at the same time. Into some smaller drums for storage and good to go.
I want to use an amount in my waste oil heater for winter so I'll probably just Dry that and not bother filtering it as it will be clean enough already.


Quote
When the weather is consistently below freezing day and night, I'll add a bit of gasoline to the diesel to help it light off in the cold


ULP mixes also GREATLY help with starting particularly in cold weather. I would go 10-15% depending how cold it is (15% in freezing weather ) but you can also 2 tank it and use a Hot batch for starting like 20% and as soon as the engine is running go back to something like 5% . I believe that 5% brings the timing back to where it should be and anything extra's main advantage is in starting.  Soon as the thing is running you can switch over to the Running fuel.  Engine will be warm enough by the time everything flushes through.  Switch back on the rundown when you are doing your water squirt or a bit before.  For a timed? automated water Spritz, Coffee maker water pumps are great. Low volume, High pressure. They are a pulse pump so turn on and off hundred of times a minute so don't care how many times you Cycle the things.

I made a little Fuel injector driver with an arduino. I'm not sure if it can be used for water injection But I was thinking of it for spraying  petrol or Meth down the intake via a momentary switch for starting.  Alcohol based solvents are great starting aids for diesel put down the intake.  Petrol is good too but makes the engines nail for a could of seconds . Methanol/ Metho etc is much softer.

Give some straight veg a go. You can save a lot of money either by blending it or using it straight.