Lister Engine Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: glort on March 30, 2019, 10:15:03 AM

Title: Earth Hour
Post by: glort on March 30, 2019, 10:15:03 AM

Half way through earth hour here which means The Kiwis have had it and the rest of the world are still about to.

I did my bit, put on all the lights out the front and the back and I have a LOT of lights out there. Good job it's blowing a gale out there tonight or I could have had the student pilots from the local airport 3 Km away trying to do touch and goes in the back yard and down the drive way.

Never let it be said I don't do my bit for stupid and moronic causes.  :laugh:

Had I remembered this afternoon, I would have done more and put a few extra lights out. I went through town this morning and while waiting at the crossing for some poor old digger I was wondering If I should get out and carry to the other side,  saw a sign saying the fairy lights in the trees down the center of the road would be switched off between 8:30 and 9:30  to support earth hour.
Oh please!  ::)  ::)  ::)

Really shows the mind numbing stupidity of this garbage.
They will have every other municipal building lit up like Christmas, all night Including the show ground as they have for the last week in preparation for the local show they are setting up for and be burning probably hundreds of KW hours per night over all but think they are achieving something turning off the fairy lights for an hour that probably don't even pull a KW all up.

Maybe we should pull the plug on twits who come up and promote this crap?  I wonder how many resources and how much energy WAS used in making a song and dance about it?  I would GAURANTEE there was more energy expended on designing and printing this large and plentiful signs all round town let alone the others in the district than what switching the fairy lights off would ever save not to mention all the other resources that went into them including paying people to drive round and put them up then on Monday go round and take the damn things down again.

I'll guarantee the most prominent supporters of this garbage are the inner city trendy types that don't even have a solar panel on their shoebox apartment roofs but think they are saving the world and achieving something with this rubbish.

This save the environment/ co2 / feelgood crap really has gone too far and is just an insult to peoples intelligence with crap like this

Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: oldgoat on March 30, 2019, 10:44:39 AM
I'll bet this really pisses off the personel in the control rooms of every generator when the load dissapears for an hour and then comes back on again.
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 30, 2019, 10:45:16 AM
Hi Glort, there are 8760 hours in a year, if these dimwit campaigners believe that one hour is going to make the slightest difference they are deluded and need to seek psychiatric assistance. I am sure that all these people will be back in their cars tomorrow, clogging the roads and belching fumes. The only difference is that they will be able to do it with a clear conscience because they observed "Earth Hour", a bit like a pedophile priest going to confession on Sunday and then going back to molesting children on Monday.

What a crock of sh1t!  >:(

Bob
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: glort on March 30, 2019, 10:59:42 AM

Haha, You made me laugh Bob.
You nailed it.

The typical do gooder mentality. Some token insignificant one off thing and they believe they have performed Miracles.
A couple of forums I am on are infected by the green washed. they love to put up lists of save the planet ideals.
Don't eat meat or limit your consumption. Don't travel by air or car, use public transport or push bike. Turn your dirty jocks inside out out so the shit stains are on the outside and wear for another week before washing, install a battery in your home and so it goes.

Then you find out they live in the outer suburbs and drive to work in their SUV every day with a roof pod they never take off, have 4 kids, don't have a solar panel, water tank or anything else but think they just saved the world by purchasing a new electric lawn mower to  cut the 20Sqm of grass on their 350msq block.   ::)

Of course then there was the guy that was going on and on about this software and controller he had designed that would let laptops discharge their battery's back into the grid at night  to save  FF generation till they could be recharged during the day from solar.
No, I'm not kidding, this guy was aggressively serious and called people ( like me) names if anyone dared question it.

One day, if I live till 196 years old, I'll read of a VALID suggestion to do some good for the world.

Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: glort on March 30, 2019, 11:07:18 AM
I'll bet this really pisses off the personel in the control rooms of every generator when the load dissapears for an hour and then comes back on again.

I'll bet they don't even notice a blip but I'll double bet the supporters will claim 1200 Terra watts and 3 billion tons of Co2 were saved in that one hour....just in outer Mongolia alone!!

 ::)
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: dax021 on March 30, 2019, 01:13:54 PM
Whether it helps the earth or not, it's still fun to take part in.  Also makes the hippie type chicks a little looser.  Win,win.
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: BruceM on March 30, 2019, 06:04:11 PM
The point is raising awareness, not power saving, duh. 
The science is clear, the longer we wait, the greater the impact on the lives of our grandkids.

I'm not sure what goes on in the heads of deniers- very little it seems, and a lack of compassion. 

Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: LowGear on March 30, 2019, 06:07:01 PM
Ah; Lister Engine Forum where the worlds greatest thinkers and studs gather to consider the universe. 

Thanks for helping spread the word about the challenges we face in this changing world.  Pi day and solstice were good but now earth hour in the same month makes March Great Again.

OK Perps;  Back over and push your heads down into that sand absolutely as far as you can.  And folks said the pointy part wouldn't be a real help.  Remember; A dirty worn out planet is far better than a well maintained one.  Sort of like Lister engines.
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: LowGear on March 30, 2019, 06:10:26 PM
Hey Bruce,

I hear the photos of the bottom of the flat planet will first be seen at this sight.  I've heard that it's really shaped much like a coin but I haven't seen the photos as of yet.  The moon and the sun are important facts leading to this obvious theory.

Cheers
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: basewindow on March 30, 2019, 11:44:58 PM
Maybe try Earth week, stop all electricity for personal use for one week. No internet, no lights, no ipad or tv. See how many of these inner city greens would join in then and be 100% committed to the cause. I'm guessing not many.
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: BruceM on March 31, 2019, 12:04:30 AM
It's not about politics, it's about leaving a habitable planet for future generations.

Yes, humans are irrational. Half of all humans are below average intelligence; think about your friend who is average, then think of a billion people half that smart. That's the nature of humans.

We need the best minds in science and engineering, and climatologists to address the problem, and politicians to follow their advice; Alas, politicians follow the will of the masses.
Thus silly programs to make the public think about their planet. 



Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 31, 2019, 11:30:56 AM
Hi BruceM, I hope you don`t think I was having a go at people like yourself who have actually reduced their carbon footprint to a minimum, I wasn`t.

Nor was I having a go at anyone trying to mitigate climate change, I wasn`t.

I was just trying to point out the stupidity of any protest that has only a 0.0114 % effect, assuming that everybody on earth joined in.

As for my concerns for future generations, my daughter is getting married soon with the intention of raising a family. I have very grave concerns about how that is going to end.

Were you aware that at the end of April, one month from today, there will be 8 million more humans on earth than there are today? In time, they will all expect a car, a home, electricity and all the gadgets that can be connected to it. They will then expect the right to have children of their own.

We have huge problems with mass immigration from Africa into Europe and from South America into the USA, I can`t see these problems going away anytime soon.

Exponential growth in a finite world is impossible, something has to give. If you know what that something is please share it with us so we can get on with solving the problem.

Bob

Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: glort on March 31, 2019, 12:39:29 PM
The point is raising awareness, not power saving, duh. 

Then i'm sorry to say but it is a completely pointless exercise once again.

I'm aware to the back teeth and beyond with all the globull warming/ co2 / emissions thing.
I can't look on the net, go to the supermarket, buy an appliance, open a bill, watch TV, go to the letterbox  or do anything else without it is shoved down my throat.

I'm made aware about 100 times a day and I believe anyone else not living in a cave is also. It's got waaay too much!
Might have been worthwhile 10 years ago but I literally can't even go to the bathroom now without getting a new roll and seeing some environmental message  on the bog paper packaging.
I have had well and truly enough of it and most people I talk to feel the same. it's going backwards now because it's annoying people having it thrown in their face all the time.

If they haven't heard the message by now they never will.
in any case, turning the lights off here is just more likely to make people think we have had another power failure!

Quote
It's not about politics, it's about leaving a habitable planet for future generations.

I'm sorry, Bruce, it's ALL about politics and MONEY.

This is exactly the same as the Safety industry, fear mongering and riding on the back of a noble cause for profit and greed.  Any real concern for the planet is a pipe dream.  This is now well and truly ALL about the money and appeasing those like yourself that are concerned with political promises and gestures to win votes.  We have a party here called the greens. That's as political as it gets.

As a parent of an early 20 something, i can say through wide observation of a number of similarly aged groups, they don't give a Fk about the environment and the whole ideal of taking care of it for them or their children is rather laughable when they don't give it a thought themselves. .

These kids want it all and they want it now.  Cars 5 Yo are too old for them and they want something newer. They wear clothes once or 3 times at the most and profess they can't be seen dead wearing them again. And don't.  They never have their arses out of an airplane traveling the world.  They  would not switch off a light or anything else unless threatened with death. They will put clothes in the electric dryer on a perfectly sunny day and that's after they have washed the 3 items they need for work tomorrow that have been sitting round 4 days and won't put anything else in with them cause it's too much trouble.  These are the kids that have to have a new iphoney a week after the new model comes out even though there is nothing wrong with the 2 yo one they have bar the deal breaking problem of it now being out of date. These are the kids that fly to the other side of the world for a festival where they are all provided tents, sleeping bags and plastic cutlery for the event and then they use it a Night or 2 then it end up in masses of skip bins to go to land fill. Too much effort to carry and costs excess baggage on the way back. Besides, the promoters at the next festival will provide branded gear for the next one.

It's the most consuming , wasteful, throwaway generation so far and their prime concerns are having a good time. As they get a bit older they are far more worried about finding a decent jon and how the Fk they are ever going to afford a place of their own which will be a tiny little butter box with crap insulation and often made to be as consuming and energy dependent as possible.

I would guarantee far less than 1% of first/ new home buyers even give a thought o the efficiency of their home or would spend a zac on insulation and put the thought into it that you have.

I'm not saying they are bad kids, they are just following the social and commercial plan that has been laid out for them by Big business and their Gubbermint puppets.  They also have a lot more to worry about in their day to day lives and the next 12 months ahead they are struggling with now to be worried about what might happen in 50 years.
In a lot of cases the ways of big biz and gubbermint gives them little option if they DO want to do anything environmentally concerned. In many cases the environmentally responsible prescribed initiatives are an ineffective joke anyway.

You would be one of the very few supporters of the cause I have any respect for however, it's still a moot point because business will always do what makes them the most money and that is not actually saving the environment but there is a lot of money in Pretending to.


Also, I strongly disagree with the science being proven  or conclusive or anything else.  I don't believe climate change is man made but I also don't believe there is any evidence either way that can be remotely trusted.
EVERYONE has a finger is some pie be if for or against.  Maybe it is happening but I dispute there is any factual evidence it is, the same as it cannot be proven it is not.

There are many powerful, vested interest in both sides of the argument and both have potentially a lot to gain and loose.

The only truth is we can never really know or be sure.
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: LowGear on April 01, 2019, 11:54:25 AM
Earth Day got this thread going.  Better than nothing.  It's effectiveness in raising awareness is demonstrated.

Oh, and no more crazy talk about a week without the internet.  I'm sorry but I have standards.
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: glort on April 01, 2019, 12:45:00 PM

  It's effectiveness Annoyance in raising awareness is demonstrated.



Fixed your typo for you mate.
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: ajaffa1 on April 02, 2019, 10:46:16 AM
Once again we are witnessing the planet and its inhabitants going to hell in a handcart. The greedy and powerful have taken over and are milking the system for all it`s worth. Today we are having a Budget in Australia, my understanding is that the federal government has enough money for tax cuts.

The wealthy types can expect an extra $1000 a week pocket money, while the workers can expect $40 a week! My electric bill went up by more than that!

When are the politicians going to start looking after the people who voted for them and stop supporting the globalists who financed their election campaign?

Bob
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: glort on April 02, 2019, 12:34:59 PM
When are the politicians going to start looking after the people who voted for them and stop supporting the globalists who financed their election campaign?


Never would be my Guess Bob.

Politics has become that rotten the world over people are just so used to being screwed over and lied to they just take it as par for the course now.
As such, the pollies don't have any compunction about justifying what they do with absolute crap and garbage. It's a dangerous situation that will only get worse till we have complete anarchy between the haves and have nots.

Say the non PC thing about a minority group, no matter how true, and the world comes down on you.
Completely lie your arse off about a matter of national importance will millions at stake and no one bats an eyelid.

As usual, with the Federal election Coming up, the decision will just be which pack of mongerals are any Less inept and rotten than the other lot?
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: ajaffa1 on April 02, 2019, 03:47:58 PM
Once they have castrated democracy all that is left is bloody revolution and we don`t want that! Perhaps it is time that right minded people got a little more involved in politics. Start local and work our way up, any ideas or suggestions?

Bob
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: LowGear on April 02, 2019, 05:26:53 PM
Isn't it wonderful how nice we all are playing with each other?

Still, three weeks ago I couldn't remember "Earth Day".  I wonder if I'll remember it next year?  Cleaner energy simply has to happen.  The planet is finite.  Consuming warm bodies are not (as). 


I watch a large trust organization here in Hawaii.  They do a fairly good job but do have a couple of recurring problems.  They keep pulling their management team out of the same gene pool and expect change.  Is it "stupidity" or "craziness" that is defined as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome?  If you want a different outcome from your team politico you must go to a different gene pool.  Scary stuff. 

Chores call.


Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: BruceM on April 02, 2019, 07:59:57 PM
There is a way to restore democracy partially, and that is to have public funding for elections and outlaw lobbying entirely.  Make the penalties for graft and corruption life very, very heavy.
And of course, term limits.  Power corrupts humans, period.

Good luck getting that passed by representatives who have spent half their lives taking corporate money.

Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: glort on April 02, 2019, 10:31:56 PM
Perhaps it is time that right minded people got a little more involved in politics. Start local and work our way up, any ideas or suggestions?

Bob

There are a number of independent parties now running here. I voted or them in the state election and I will be again in the Federal election and I'm sure as hell not talking about the greens.
They are unbelievably hell bent on screwing the place with their moronic ideas. They got a bit of power before and made a dogs breakfast of it, I don't want to see them given the same opportunity to destroy the country again.  Shamed to admit I did vote for them years back but then they got a bit of power and went completely nuts.

There are some other independents that I will be ticking the box for. They won't get near a majority but they will get enough seats to keep the others from running completely amok.

I am amzed at the support the majors still get. They have all proven what corrupt morons they are yet they still get voted in over the independents whom  in many cases have done good and decent things and their platforms make much more sense.
Probably just a sign how complacent people have become and the amount of corruption in the system.

I think at very least with campaigning it should be made law it can only be done on merit and self promotion.
Make them stand on their merits ( whatever they may be?) instead of spending a Million bucks on just putting shit on the other guy.

If they are so  great and worthy of the job, let them tell us about it, not just run other people down which is a cop out when you haven't got anything to hold out as examples of a good job you have done. 

You don't get to do that in any other job so should not be allowed to do it with politics.
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: LowGear on April 03, 2019, 05:43:29 PM
Is this the Brexit thread.  I thought I read that one.

True democracy is on the way.  That'll just might be the circus to end all circuses.

True democracy is where everything is voted on by all of the people.  Perhaps we'll put our cell device next to the chip in our breast and run through the votes of the day making our choices known. 

At any rate, representative government is getting a real thrashing in our opinion poles.  When you've got a better idea the world is waiting for your insight.
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: dieselspanner on April 03, 2019, 09:35:50 PM
As Winston Churchill is reputed to have said,

 'Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others'

Cheers
Stef
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: mikenash on April 04, 2019, 08:03:27 AM
I was listening today to a report on the radio about a machine that scrubs CO2 out of air - works well, is reliable, can be scaled up easily,  is fairly cheap to run and its by-product is a carbon-based liquid fuel ideal for internal combustion engines.  See?  I KNEW tech would rescue us!   AND it makes petrol for us to keep burning.  Win-win
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: glort on April 04, 2019, 09:47:26 AM

I'll bet $1000 we'll never see such a machine.

If it did what it said, you can bet it uses more energy than put in and probably has some back end by product that is worse than the co2 it cleans up.

If it is practical, it will never be allowed by gubbermints in case they loose tax revenue or it disturbs the green hell bent Electric car mandate.

 
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: LowGear on April 04, 2019, 04:43:04 PM
Quote
I'll bet $1000 we'll never see such a machine.

I'm always nervous when I agree with glort.

Are the plans for this contraption in the same cabinet as the clean coal plant? 
Title: Re: Earth Hour and my $1000 please
Post by: mikenash on April 04, 2019, 09:57:34 PM
I heard one of the engineers from the Canadian company doing this work speaking on Radio New Zealand yesterday "it must be true"

He said the machinery was 'working now", "very scaleable", "relatively inexpensive", and produced nothing but "a carbon fuel in a ready-to-use state suitable for automotive use"

Check out the news story:

https://www.bbc.com/news/video_and_audio/science_and_environment

And check out the company:

https://carbonengineering.com/

And check out the CO2-fuel process:

https://carbonengineering.com/about-a2f/

Can I please have my $1000 in NZ dollars? 

(It's very easy to be a "knocker" or a "sceptic" but every now and then IMHO one actually has to have a look at things before deriding them as "greenwash" or dismissing it with " never be allowed by gubbermints in case they loose tax revenue or it disturbs the green hell bent Electric car mandate"

Cash in a brown envelope will be acceptable
Title: Re: Earth Hour and my $1000 please
Post by: glort on April 04, 2019, 11:03:08 PM

Can I please have my $1000 in NZ dollars? 

Sure Can!  Will save me heap on the exchange rate!

But not so fast my short , long beaked friend.
The thing is still only in the "More money in developing the thing and getting investor bucks than actually making and producing them" Stage just yet.

Quote
2018-2021: Commercial validation

2021: Broad commercial deployment

In 2021, following commercial validation, CE will move to deploy the first full scale, commercial AIR TO FUELS™ facilities that directly synthesize liquid fuels, and supply them to end users within existing transportation fuels infrastructure and markets.

I'd say you have at least 3 years to wait for your pay off, or I have mine seeing you have taken the bet. 
I'll have mine in US Dollars thanks given we can nominate Currency.


Quote
(It's very easy to be a "knocker" or a "sceptic" but every now and then IMHO one actually has to have a look at things before deriding them as "greenwash" or dismissing it with " never be allowed by gubbermints in case they loose tax revenue or it disturbs the green hell bent Electric car mandate"

It's also pretty easy these days to come up with a green concept and have Gubbermints and industry throw Millions at it in order for them to look like they are doing something about globull warming. Startups are everywhere and like the revolutionary breakthrough  vehicle engine that has been just around the corner for 50+ years and had 100,000 press releases about how it " could" or 'Might" or some other non committal pronoun about changing the world, it still hasn't happened.  Only one new limited application engine which is now dead anyway.

One needs to understand, these ideas don't actually need to work and be put into practice to make money for the people involved, they can take them to a point and then say Ah well, we have run into this problem or another and sell off the company assets including some patents/ technology some other company with vested interests may buy to make sure it's never put into practice and eliminate a threat to their business.

I see on the site BHP have thrown $6M into the hat.  Might be that they are interested in using this just so if carbon tax comes back in the future they can minimise their exposure or even earn money with that.  may have no intention or interest in making fuel, just want the tech for other reasons.  Maybe the EV industry will buy up the tech and shelve it so their investment isn't threatened or markets reduced?

If one takes these feel good stories/ initiatives on face value they would be very naieve indeed but I'm sure the vested interests would thank you for believing and supporting them which is exactly what they need in order for the bux to keep rolling in.


Quote
Cash in a brown envelope will be acceptable

Yeah, I bet it will be to a whole load of entity's and interests and it will be a lot bigger brown bag than you or I have ever seen.

So what will we give it before one of us has to pay up? 3 years, 5?  I'm happy to wait 5 Because I could wait 50 if I had that long and none of these things will EVER be put into commercial deployment.

Here's the death knell why they will never be put into any sort of widespread use from a newspaper article which illustrates the exact reason only for the naieve they spell it out as an advantage.

“Any country, any region, can have its own fuel. They’d be no longer dependent on the geopolitical situation if Country X has oil and Country Y does not.”

And right there is why you will never see this in any soprt of practical, wide spread use. Political power and global stability.

There is no way in hell the powers that be are going to give away energy independence and Profits.
Even countries that have have virtually unlimited hydro electric  or Geothermal power could become fuel self sufficient or even start exporting.  Anyone thinks that upset in the oil industry is going to be allowed to happen?   ::)

Little backwards countries could invest in solar and get liquid fuels as well and therefore be able to power armies and military to take over other nations as so many have been fighting  amongst themselves for decades. At very least, the savings they make on importing oil could be put to buying weapons.


It's NEVER about whether it works or not, there are always a heap of reasons as usual governed by big biz and Gubbermints that are the reason so many of these break through and disruptive technology's will never make it past feel good headlines and here is yet another. 
Fuel and energy is a HUGE security threat to the world balance of power.

Are we also going to adjust out bet to allow for inflation between now and in 5 years time?
Wanna make it $10K?
Please?
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: LowGear on April 05, 2019, 04:54:32 PM
I though I read some pie in the sky as well.  But money distracts from the mission.  Let's hope for the best for this company.  I hope my broker isn't holding his breath for the commission on this transaction from me.
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: BruceM on April 06, 2019, 06:22:04 AM
According to the company site, the equivalent of 250,000 cars worth of CO per unit per year.
The energy cost of running it could be substantial as well.

This kind of stuff will likely be used to justify doing nothing.
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: mikenash on April 06, 2019, 08:54:40 AM
Sorry Glort, I don't want to spend 20 mins of my life I'll never get back reading your magnum opus

That aside, I think that - sooner or later - governments will, kicking & screaming, be dragged into realising that this Climate Shit is serious

THEN, I suspect, the planet's industries & economies will be put on a War Footing, governments will realise that $$ is just a number, and some large-scale shit will get done . . .

Perhaps this Carbon-Eating machine will be one?

The question, IMHO, is how bad/irretrievable will it get before something is done
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: glort on April 06, 2019, 09:11:07 AM
Sorry Glort, I don't want to spend 20 mins of my life I'll never get back reading your magnum opus

If that takes you 20 Min to read, perhaps you should enrol at the local primary school for some reading lessons.
Funny how people never have time to read things that show the flaws in their position.  ::)

Quote
According to the company site, the equivalent of 250,000 cars worth of CO per unit per year.
The energy cost of running it could be substantial as well.

I'm not at all sure if that is significant and of course you never know how "Optimised"  them numbers are.
I did look for an energy consumption figure but there was none which leads me to believe it is significant as well.  If the pics are anything to go by, it would have to be just to run the amount of fans they depict. Don't know what else may be involved but no doubt it will need lots of power as anything industrial scaled would.

If this did have a hope in hell, it would be an interesting Quandary.  The logical thing would be to power it with solar but then there are 2 questions, what's the solar worth and are there sites big enough to put a plant where you are close enough to population to make the fuel transport cost Viable?

I read all the time about only tinly bits or land needed relative to countries size being needed to power them and people argue all sorts of crap for the being suitable land everywhere but that is just not the case in reality.

On the flip side there are already a number of ways to make oil  that are being used today particularly in asian Countries.  In the west we have a huge waste tyre and plastic problem, in asian countries they are cooking them to get fuel and they get a by product of carbon black from tyres and the steel from the belts.

It's not new or pie in the sky, it's been done for over a decade.
This is another reason why all this globull warming thing will never amount to anything significant.  Big biz and gubbermint revenue will always quash any idea that infringes on that no matter how beneficial any tech may be for the planet.
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: ajaffa1 on April 06, 2019, 09:55:55 AM
Planet earth has always had a very efficient system for dealing with global warming and reducing atmospheric CO2, they are called trees! They absorb CO2 and give out oxygen for us to breath.

The problem is that we are cutting down all the trees to build houses and make way for agriculture to feed an ever growing human population. So what are we going to do about it? Is anyone going to vote for a political party that advocates for less children, more warfare, less medicine, starvation and compulsory euthanasia? I doubt it. So, what we can`t agree on mother nature will deal with on her own.

I would urge every member on this site to plant a couple of trees, I would also urge them to prepare for a very turbulent time ahead as the peoples in drought stricken areas migrate to cooler climates bringing with them famine, disease, civil unrest and warfare.

Bob

Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: LowGear on April 06, 2019, 02:01:46 PM
Glort, glort, glort.

How many lines of code does it take to get you to bla, bla, bla........  See, it's just not me.

The oceans play a big role in carbon maintenance as well.  It's called algae.  You know, the stuff from whence most crude oil comes (at least it doesn't end with a preposition).  I suspect the planet's solution to some sort of stabilization is to chase the humanoid life forms off of it.  For all you other mammals - oops. 

I'm afraid I agree with the idea that my hill folk ancestors voiced in the old saying that they did have enough chairs but that they just had too many visitors has become true for the entire planet.  Population management is going to become more widely seen as the answer as the trees and algae disappear.  The paradox:  A diminishing population building an increasing political majority. 
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: glort on April 06, 2019, 02:48:29 PM

Is anyone going to vote for a political party that advocates for less children, more warfare, less medicine, starvation and compulsory euthanasia? I doubt it.

I don't think it needs to be quite that dramatic Bob.  China had zero population growth for some decades. Simply make it more expensive for those who want to procreate more than one child.

Quote
I would urge every member on this site to plant a couple of trees,

I'm much better at chopping the bastards down! They are great in the bush, pain in the arse in suburbia or anywhere near a building. 

Had my gum out the front trimmed up last Monday. Arborist reckons it's over 450 years old.  You know you have something decent when the tree guys want to pose to take pics with the thing when they are done and are doing shots with their chainsaws against it for scale. I'll substitute my planting  duty for preserving this old grandaddy. I have a DA to have the thing removed but I'll keep it. Need a bit of treatment so I'll get a guy in to do that and see how we go.

That said, I am successfully growing some Moringa trees. Supposed to have all sorts of benefits in eating the leaves and the things get seed pods which produce a lot of oil which I want to have a go at squeezing out. Mentioned the Moringa to a Fillipino friend and she went into orbit.  They love the things in the islands and she said I could make decent money supplying small grocers with them that stock these specific foods.


 
Quote
I would also urge them to prepare for a very turbulent time ahead as the peoples in drought stricken areas migrate to cooler climates bringing with them famine, disease, civil unrest and warfare.


I was reading the other day how all the migration from the 3rd world to the first world is also causing resource and emissions problems.
In the 3rd world the lifestyle people lead is much more unsustainable and the people have very low impact. Once you get to the 1st world and live in a house with appliances and a car and all the other trappings, the weight one has on the planet goes up significantly.

As it seems pollies the world over are hell bent on importing people from the 3rd world shitholes into a world they struggle with anyway, this is a compounding of the problem of population without actually increasing the numbers of people.

I think the whole thing of globull warming has become rather irrelevant now anyway.
There is no way any real steps are going to be done to address anything unless there is a buck in it and growth is the fundamental thing big biz and gubbermints absolutely want and will never give up.  No point harping about what needs to be done because anything real and effective as in population control will never be considered in the first world.

Casey and Co better hope globull warming is a scam because if it's not, our kids are already screwed.

Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: BruceM on April 06, 2019, 05:46:43 PM
"our kids are already screwed. "  That's what the world's climate scientists have been screaming for a long time.  Alas, Dunning -Kruger effect lets every idiot think his opinion is valid and well informed.  Thus democracy is the orchestra on the deck of the Titanic, even with corporate corruption removed.

Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: glort on April 06, 2019, 10:45:32 PM

I was saying on another greenwashed forum how the globull warming thing be it real or not has become irrelevant and that the numbers show despite a couple of decades of it being rammed down everyone's throat, they situation is going backwards fast.

The response was interesting if not unsurprising in the assembled green proponents went into overdrive to push their position of the cause being real and with the regular denier label being thrown around ( which I am and have no problem with) rather than acknowledge the problem from their end and suggest solutions.

It was far more about pushing the beliefs and going to pains to prove there is no way they are wrong it's realy and blah blah rather than  addressing the point, it it is real the numbers are getting worst and there is no suggestion what so ever that they will change in the forseeable future and certainly not within near the time frame suggested that has to happen.

Of course that was met with more cried of Denier etc. Yes, we have already established that but by my initial declaration but the point is, if I am wrong and the other side is right, it's game over already.
I don't care what people believe in but I do get annoyed when their religion starts costing me money in useless schemes for the cause.  That's not schemes for the cause, it's USELESS ideas that are self evident and apparent from the start.

As I have said endlessly, real and effective no cost strategy's are never employed because the only interest big biz and gubbermints have in this is money.

It's not a matter of Denial, it's a matter of facing up to a very evident problem that the green side constantly complains about in not enough being done but keeping going with the same strategy and expecting a different result.

I also set the green washed on fire by saying I wonder how many of the green zealots follow the prescribed lists of what not to do in every day life?
Do they not travel by air plane, given up eating meat, ride a pushbike everywhere, have enough solar on the roof to support their energy needs, all have a straight EV they charge only from said panels and are they making sure their impact on the planet is sustainable as they prescribe?





 ;D ;D ;D Don't be ridiculous! Of course they aren't!
Talk is cheap, practising what you preach is so much harder and inconvenient.

Unless the congregation of the green religion can follow their own scriptures, how can they expect everyone else to?

Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: BruceM on April 07, 2019, 01:23:25 AM
"globull warming"  tags the writing as something not worth reading in my book. 
That sort of bologna was cooled up by the Koch brothers and other large petro corps as part of their disinformation campaigns.  Only a Koch puppet would use it.
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: mikenash on April 07, 2019, 05:31:32 AM
Glort, glort, glort.

How many lines of code does it take to get you to bla, bla, bla........  See, it's just not me.

The oceans play a big role in carbon maintenance as well.  It's called algae.  You know, the stuff from whence most crude oil comes (at least it doesn't end with a preposition).  I suspect the planet's solution to some sort of stabilization is to chase the humanoid life forms off of it.  For all you other mammals - oops. 

I'm afraid I agree with the idea that my hill folk ancestors voiced in the old saying that they did have enough chairs but that they just had too many visitors has become true for the entire planet.  Population management is going to become more widely seen as the answer as the trees and algae disappear.  The paradox:  A diminishing population building an increasing political majority.

Casey, I'm not sure this particular part of your audience here would recognise a preposition if it was swimming in his soup . . .

One of the dubious things social media has given us is the ability to surround oneself with like-minded folk who will reinforce your position until opinion begins to feel like fact.  At which point - irrelevancies/facts/detail having been shunted aside - it is easy to simply be scornful of any view which doesn't align with yours

Following the massacre in Christchurch last month our government has seen itself as being on something of a "war footing" and has rammed through - a la Port Arthur - legislation which will ban almost all semi-automatic rifles; be they in legitimate use or not.  Because of the universal condemnation of the (sadly, Australian) gunman's actions, the government was able to find almost unanimous support for legislation it had been wanting to pass for several decades

If there were to be universal recognition re global warming that things were, indeed, bloody urgent - then governments around the globe might be able to pass legislation to make real change as opposed to a light green-washing (in a manner similar to that adopted by our government re semi-autos) because they would have a "mandate" to do so

Failing that . . .
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: glort on April 07, 2019, 05:55:33 AM
"globull warming"  tags the writing as something not worth reading in my book. 

I understand where you are coming from Bruce.
The minute I see any mention of C02 I think here we go again and look for something more interesting to read than the predictable and endlessly repeated hysteria about how the world is going to end because there is a fraction more if this harmless gas in the atmosphere which plants thrive on anyway.


Quote
That sort of bologna was cooled up by the Koch brothers and other large petro corps as part of their disinformation campaigns.  Only a Koch puppet would use it.

I don't know who the koch brothers are and I came up with that as one of my many word plays all by myself.
I think it fits nicely but it does not agree with some peoples beliefs. They have their own descriptive terms as well like Deniers so balances out in the end.   ;D
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: glort on April 07, 2019, 06:53:55 AM

Casey, I'm not sure this particular part of your audience here would recognise a preposition if it was swimming in his soup . . .


Must be that time of the month again. Someone's getting all narky and out to point score again.
Another week we'll be all nice and pleasant and then back to being bitchy.  ::)



Quote
One of the dubious things social media has given us is the ability to surround oneself with like-minded folk who will reinforce your position until opinion begins to feel like fact.  At which point - irrelevancies/facts/detail having been shunted aside - it is easy to simply be scornful of any view which doesn't align with yours

I agree. The greenwashed have a terrible bad habit of this. Even when the flawed parroted mantra's are pointed out, they will  insist there can be no other  fact or explanation than what they have been brainwashed with.

They will also Cherry pick single points conducive to their argument and ignore all others which don't promote it in the light they want to project.

I really don't care what people believe but the Dreamers ( that's the opposite to Deniers) aren't happy with that and want to shove their POV down everyone's throats instead of letting them make up their own minds. Then they get sand in their vagina's when the other party don't drink the green Koolaide.

I saw this morning another media sook piece because people aren't buying enough EV's in Oz.
Ahhh, hello? since when did I have to buy something to appease someone else's agendas and to suit them rather than myself??
If I was to do an article complaining EV sales are eating into IC profits there would be an outcry yet the greenwashed are supposed to get their way but no one else is allowed to get theirs.  Typical.

I don't see the deniers taking the lead trying to convert the dreamers, they are a defensive rather than an offensive side.  People can believe what they want as long as they don't try and convert me to their church or get offended when I don't want to attend.
Unlike some propose, it's not stupid not to believe at all, it's just a matter of not being convinced.


Quote
If there were to be universal recognition re global warming that things were, indeed, bloody urgent - then governments around the globe might be able to pass legislation to make real change as opposed to a light green-washing (in a manner similar to that adopted by our government re semi-autos) because they would have a "mandate" to do so.


Well look on the bright side, once there is some real and undeniable evidence rather than the opinion that is championed as science, the climate warriors will get  the immediate changes they want and the world will be saved!

Just have to wait for that one undeniable event and all the green believers dreams will come true like all the presents on their Christmas wish list arriving at once.

I would suggest it would be helpful to get their story straight though. It seems to be changing almost endlessly.
I am seeing more and more that those that were previously jumping for joy that unreliables would be able to easily power the world and there would be no reason to build coal or nuke power plants and would be unviable to do so are now in fact championing nuke. I caught one greenwashed zealot out today on another forum and found a post of his from just over 13 months back saying there would never be nuke in oz because we have so much sunshine and can build big Blatterys etc now saying we need to look at nukes.

It's apparent the Unreliable argument is quickly coming to light as a non viable dream which is unfortunate although was never realistic to me from the start. We all want clean energy with no drawbacks but utopia is seldom that convenient to achieve. 

Nuuzealund and Norway many end up being the only 2 relatively unsoiled places in the world thanks to their natural resources ability to generate reliable power 24/7.

Only got a couple of years to decide if I want to buy my way in to NZ and they may not even let me seeing I'm neither Asian or Indian like 80% of the rest of the population there particularly around Auckland.

Will take them at least 3 decades to build a nuke here the way things get stuffed around but I figure the next 3-5 years is going to be very interesting and telling here and around the world.

In any case, we can all sit back and relax and no need to argue. If the proof comes that every one can see Gubbermints will act swiftly to outlaw everything that causes the problems and the green initiatives will be put into full immediate swing and there will be nothing to worry about.
If nothing happens then we won't have worried ourselves or pissed money up the wall for nothing.

I think everyone would agree that without that definitive sign, nothing real is going to be done anyway.
Long as we have our listers and other engines, we here are all going to be fine!   ;D
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: ajaffa1 on April 07, 2019, 11:51:26 AM
Hi Glort, I`m afraid that we are going exactly down the route of pissing money up the wall. We have an upcoming federal election between the capitalist Liberal Party and the socialist Labour Party. The socialists are arguing for electric vehicle, while the capitalists are for fossil fuels.

I believe the socialists will win this election due to the back stabbing and in fighting that has occurred in the Liberal Party. So, after four years of the Liberals bringing the budget and national debt back under control, we will once again have a socialist government with a healthy looking national credit card they can use to shove their views down our throats.

The incoming Labour Government will implement legislation in favor of EV`s and outlawing ICE`s, this will be fine for city dwellers but have catastrophic effects on those of us who live in the bush. The bush will be filled with solar generation facilities, battery storage facilities and new power lines to keep the overpaid and unproductive city dwellers comfortable. Those of us who are lucky enough to live in unpolluted pristine countryside will be expected to put up with the outfall from electricity generation plants and clean up the mess left by solar/battery banks discarded by businesses that will quickly fail once the Labour government subsidies are removed after the next but one election.

My advice is to live as remotely as possible, build walls/fences around your property and buy a gun, I no longer trust any of these politicians to look after my best interests, they are all too busy looking after their own interests and pork barreling to get votes. The alternative is to jump on the band wagon and screw the f*cked up system for all you can get out of it in the next four years, take every government subsidy you can get,  bank it and then stick two fingers up at the next election.

Bob
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: glort on April 07, 2019, 12:41:25 PM

I think you are correct Bob.
Labour is well in bed with the greens and we saw the absolute Fiasco they caused last time round.

There is no doubt a HUGE disparity between the beliefs of the PC softcocks in the city and the down to earth people in the bush and that's not limited to environmental issues by any stretch.  The city people just tend to think what they believe everyone does. People in the bush are far more realistic and aware of a lot of things in my experience.  Glad i'm heading north again tomorrow  for a week or 2.  Dad is having a small OP on Tuesday so Nurse glort will be in charge.

I have many times seen the EV green crowd plainly state that EV's are better even if powered by coal because it puts the pollution in the country side where it's not such a Problem.... For them.
I think this is very indicative of the selfish mentality as well as narrow minded attitude of many .  If I read or hear about the " No tail pipe  or oil changes" rubbish again i'm going loose my shit.

On that note, I'm going to concede defeat on this climate change topic and bow out.
MY ability to self moderate and get overly excited on these issues in not good and I don't want to cause any more division here.  It's not worth it and these discussions always go down the same track.

No matter what any of us think here the future actions will not be decided by us so it's not worth  causing hostilities over here.

I'll just say I was wrong, apologise for any upset caused and leave it at that.

Still happy to whinge about idiotic gubbermint decisions that do not serve  the climate believers or non believers but rather feather the nest of gubbermint  election campaign main supporters.

Once again, we are faced with a decision not of whom is the better pack of lying snakes in the grass but the ones who we think will screw the country over slightly less than the other morons.

I won't be voting for other either. I'm going to be all  PC and gender equality for once and vote for a certain red headed woman. She will never be in power but the more power she has  with her right thinking to keep the other idiots under control,  the better. I'm surprised she didn't have a better showing in the last election but I think once all the country people in all the states have a say she will do very well.

I think a LOT of the other independents are going to do well this time round also.  Everyone I talk to is sick of the mainstream idiots and much to my surprise are quite openly admitting they will be going for the under dogs as well.
Wonder how many Prime Ministers we will have this time round in the one term?

I always laughed at the whole Preppers ideal and thing it was overkill buy a lot of zealots. having ones own generator and a good supply of fuel is just looking like good forethought more and more every day here.

God ( or your preferred Daiety) help the city folk whom are completely dependent on the grid whom are about to get a taste of the idiots they voted for in action.

I'm 2 streets back from the very edge of the Sydney Sprawl.  Behind us is all bush till you get to the west coast 4000 Km away.  Been saying to the mrs for some months now, suburbia is chasing and catching up to us, I think we should have gone further out.
The last blocks that will ever be available in this area which is noe deemed the most desirable in Sydney are selling for $1m+ down the road.

At least when we move further out we will be able to get something decent  for what we will be able to get for this place.


Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: ajaffa1 on April 07, 2019, 02:27:37 PM
Hey Glort, I am with you completely that the current mob of politicians are a waste of rations. Please don`t give up on trying to educate them. You are one of the last sensible voices on all the forums I visit. Do it for your children, at least on your death bed you will be able to say "I told you so"

Bob
Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: LowGear on April 07, 2019, 06:05:59 PM
I enjoy reading glort.  He saves me from reading the Trump doctrine each morning.  I know there's a great job waiting for you in Washington D.C. glort.  Incidentally, you're not suppose to know who the Koch brothers are.  A very stealth organization based on incredible petroleum profits of their forefathers. 

The strongest force for reduction in birth rate is wealth.  Increased wealth results in reduced population growth.  This is the phenomena that got Bill Gates labeled as a child hater and accused of poisonous inoculation programs.  Just when you think you're all the way down town Craziville you see another short cut to another part of town you didn't even know existed. 

I did pick up a prune tree and planted it this last week in celebration of Earth Day.  Thanks for the thread.  I may have apples from last year and the previous years planting as well.


Title: Re: Earth Hour
Post by: glort on April 08, 2019, 12:41:37 AM

The strongest force for reduction in birth rate is wealth.  Increased wealth results in reduced population growth.

I'm not so sure about that. I would suggest that is true of first world country's, to a point.
Certainly the poorest countries in the world also tend to have the highest populations. Take India and a number of African nations for example. China until fairly recent times was also a poorer country and they have more people than anyone.

Also in the first/  western world one tends to find those in the lowest socio economic sectors also tend to be very prolific breeders. My impression of the poorer parts of the US is there are always more than 2 Children per family and the same tends to be true here. The more dependent on social security, the more  future recipients they tend to produce. I was watching a report on that some months back and because these people tend to be having buns in the oven much more in the mid teens than late 20s as is the average, it's not hard for these kids to grow up in households where the occupants have never had a job. Growing up with that as the norm programs the generations to accept it as normal.

I have certainly seen this with my  POS step brother and his equally low life Mrs.  They live Literally in a one room shack with a curtain across one corner for the thunderbox and the last 4 out of 6 Kids she has produced have been no more than 14 months apart. Adding to the irony and the obvious social security payments they are after, she has been sick with MS and done many fundraisers to pay for her treatment yet she is still pushing out more mongeral Children.  Due to the social security system  they can have 15 Kids and their payments just go up and up. How the social services people allow  6 People in one little shack I'm buggered if I know but it just further proves the stupidity of the system we have here.

Meanwhile My wife, daughter and I and everyone else with a job is paying for this and then you have People like Bob that are going through endless bullshit to be compensated for endless pain and suffering he has been though and to be able to afford medical treatment to have some semblance of a normal life after working his guts out and paying taxes unlike these other dead beats have ever done.

Agggh, time to drop that one before my blood pressure goes up any more.

Your Point of wealth would be effective if it were to come into play that after the first 2 spawns of satan, you are on your own.
Far too logical for our gubbermints here to implement and the cry from the probably hundreds of thousands of deadbeats it would affect would be something that had the PC do gooders in a flat spin over. Thus, the problem will continue to multiply itself as a perpetually growing problem.

Thinking about it, perhaps that band  where wealth is considered is quite narrow?  The middle class tends to talk about the cost of kids a lot  and in my impression, a lot more than to put it bluntly, a lot of the social security dead beats.  I do't know what it is  like in other countries but there would be a lot of evidence to support that belief here.

Certainly I agree those that are well off do not look so much at cost or worry about it in consideration of Children but then again,  the above middle class people I can think of also have less children on average than a lot of Down and outs I have come across.


Quote
I did pick up a prune tree and planted it this last week in celebration of Earth Day.  Thanks for the thread.  I may have apples from last year and the previous years planting as well.

One of the things on my winter do do list ( always a sketch proposition)  it to erect a framework I can cover with netting.
I pumped the water into the many and different fruit tress I had up the back last season and they all flourished well. Got bugger all to nothing off them  due to the Birds just destroying any and all fruit on them.  Most annoying. I'm not sure that anything less than building the trees into a cage will do much good. Cage is going to have to be about 20M long, 4 Wide and at least 4 high.  Pretty big job.

The cockatoos also wreaked havoc on my sunflowers I planted out the back which thankfully weren't attacked till after Christmas get together when they looked beautiful and seemed to give everyone a good feeling.  Next year I'm thinking of some sort of solar  powered device like a big spinning set of arms  so hey can't get near the things.

Right now I'm having to deal with the  Birds  eating my 10 Ft Tomato Vines.  They are still loaded when everyone elses have died long ago but I'm having to pick the fruit the moment it shows any colour to prevent the birds getting in sooner.
I want to keep these vines alive over winter so will have to decide what sort of heating and frost prevention i'm going to try to keep them alive.  So far I managed some for 2.5 years until the frost here wiped them out last year which was very disheartening.  I'm prepared to invest a bit this winter to prevent that.