Lister Engine Forum

Slow Speed Diesel Engines => Other Slow Speed Diesels => Topic started by: ajaffa1 on February 13, 2019, 12:28:10 AM

Title: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on February 13, 2019, 12:28:10 AM
Hi Guys, I am awaiting the delivery of a Southern Cross ETB 2.5 HP diesel engine. Manufactured in Australia circa 1950, they were also manufactured briefly in South Africa. This engine has sat in a mate`s shed for the last 20 years. I have finally persuaded him to part with it for free!  :) 

Sadly it is incomplete, missing the fuel injector, pump and fuel lines. The originals would have been made by an Australian company called Pyrox, who manufactured injectors and pumps under license from Bosch.

I have been unable to find much out about the missing items but believe they are very similar to the units used on a Lister CS 3/1. I suspect that I might have to change the injector nozzles and fiddle with the pop pressures a bit to get them to work properly. Any thoughts please?

I have attached a photo of a complete ETB I found on the internet, probably a breach of someone`s copyright, for which I apologize in advance. I will post photos of my unit once it arrives.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: mikenash on February 13, 2019, 01:29:38 AM
Perhaps Rob at OldTimer Engines could help with a suitable pump?
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on February 13, 2019, 02:56:11 AM
Thanks Mike, I`ve been looking at a few Youtube videos and it would appear that the injector pump timing must be adjusted with shims as there is no access to the plunger or cam that drives it. Interestingly the fuel injector is side mounted in the head.

I`ll flick an email to Rob once I get the engine here.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: glort on February 13, 2019, 08:20:05 AM

Always wanted one of these most Aussie of engines. What could be more Dinky Di than something called " Southern Cross"?
For those that don't know, that's our most prominent constellations of stars Visible here and features in much of our poetry and cultural history.  It is also the constellation that is featured on our flag.  There is another constellation which is similar called the false Cross because that's what it is. Real Aussies aren't fooled and know the difference and how and where to find the Southern Cross in the night sky. 

Where I am here at certain times of the year I'm right under it which is pretty special.  most times, it is in the south.

I would like a YTB model which is 10 Hp I believe but any of these is a real find no doubt.

From what I have read of the things, they were a local attempt at knocking off the Lister market and a lot of things were done the same and similar on them.
I wonder if the yanmar type Pumps are the same?  Yamnar were doing engines at that time and the modern versions as well as the China Knockoffs work by shimming the pumps as well. Just a simple plunger design. If you could find a pic of an original southern cross pump and put it up would be easy to compare. The china pumps are easy to get and cheap.

I got an idea there are some other engines these were pretty interchangeable with as well. Might have been Moffit Virtues.
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on February 13, 2019, 11:38:01 AM
Hi Glort. when I bought my Lister CS, the farmer also had a YBT. I chose the Lister because it turned over, while the other was seized. Parts for Lister engines are readily available,.New parts for old Southern Cross engines would have to be manufactured at huge cost. That said, you only have to look at the work being done by 38ac to see what can be achieved by a determined and skilled individual.

When it gets dark here I can see the entire Milky Way in the sky, No wonder that earlier people worshiped the heavens and learned to use them to navigate the globe.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: 38ac on February 13, 2019, 02:55:29 PM
 You guys have all the best old engines over there :(
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: BruceM on February 13, 2019, 04:08:47 PM
I'm "centrally located" aka middle of nowhere, at 5600 ft and the night sky is very bright here too; the plane of the Milky Way is obvious. A big reminder of how very small we are, even within our own galaxy.
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: EdDee on February 18, 2019, 02:57:51 PM
"A big reminder of how very small we are, even within our own galaxy. "

Or that someone stole the damn tent while I was asleep.....

E
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: dieselspanner on February 18, 2019, 03:06:08 PM
Years back I read something to the effect of....

 'How amazing would it be if there was another sentient life form out there, somewhere. How amazing would it be if there wasn't?'

Cheers
Stef
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on February 24, 2019, 02:57:56 AM
Well guys, the 1955 ETB landed in my shed today. It is missing a few bits but I am hopeful that I will be able to find these at old timer engines. An early inspection suggests that it has suffered water ingress at some time. The piston is OK but the bore is badly corroded and will need sleeving. I attach a couple of photos just to make you all envious. If anyone has any information about these engines please let me know.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: glort on February 24, 2019, 07:33:50 AM

Nice engine.

Do you ever get to any old engine shows Bob? Some of them have tables full of old bits and pieces. There is one down the road from me in may and another HUGE one in September at Clarendon, about 45 Min away.
I think some of the country ones are better for parts though.

Hope you can find what you need soon and get this one running again soon.
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on February 24, 2019, 08:10:53 AM
Hi Glort, sadly I no longer drive so going anywhere generally involves days of careful negotiation with She who must be obeyed!

Having looked at fuel injectors, I am convinced that an injector from a Lister CS 3/1 could work well if I adjusted the pop pressure a little. I might have to turn up an adapter sleeve to ensure a good fit and fabricate a hold down plate.

There is a guy in Toowoomba that has some spare parts for these engines, I will be contacting him this week and let you know how I go.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on February 24, 2019, 08:45:47 AM
Further to my last post, I have just taken the rocker cover off and found a missing bolt in the rocker assembly, nothing that can`t be replaced. I also noticed that the diaphragm on this engine is built into the rocker cover allowing hot oil fumes to lubricate the rocker gear and valves. I also noted that this must be one of the earliest engines to have tubular push rods with toughened steel inserts at either end, I thought that was introduced by the Japanese in the 1970s.

One of the cylinder head bolts is nearly rusted through (see photo)

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: glort on February 24, 2019, 09:38:45 AM

Interesting how the Cylinder head bolt is so corroded but nothing around it looks too bad.

I have been doing some home work and Trying to convince the Mrs to buy a house as an investment property.
I'm thinking Now maybe maybe we should look at investing in "Bob"s Olde Time engine Repair Shoppe".

You can do your, mine and your mates engines as  sample/ promo engines we can document on forums and YT and then will be in business proper. Butch May consider helping  to tell us how we can make fortunes out of this.  I'll pay for the machinery and tooling, You provide the skill Bob.
As things ramp up we can find other knowledgeable people to help out.  Our best rerouting source will no doubt be the seniour Citizens Centres.

I'll find some Bimbo Model and we'll do a short film that makes old engines cool and we'll start a new trend.
We'll make a fortune off the Merch sales alone! then discovery will want to make a series and we'll be Multi Millionaires!

Orange County Choppers and West coast Customs move over, Bob's Olde time engine repair Shoppe is going to be the next big thing.

Factory tours available and don't forget to Visit the Gift shop for autographed Jock straps and genuine authentic Lister CS flywheel Indian reproductions..... Perfect for the man who has everything  and guaranteed no 2 alike!
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on February 24, 2019, 10:26:52 AM
Hey Glort, It`s a nice dream but that`s all it is. Can I recommend you take your medications with food and maybe have a short lie down after.

The corroded cylinder bolt is very odd, I wonder if there is a leak in the cylinder gasket which blew hot gasses and humid air onto it for years. Either way it`s got to be replaced and before that I am going to have plenty of fun trying to get the old one out.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: sirpedrosa on February 24, 2019, 04:05:55 PM
Hi Bob

that's it Bob, nothing like having a "carcass", always on hand so the brain has to do it - a good old machine to do a "peeling".

And negotiations with "She" to drive, is only a necessary evil for a greater good. I'm in your page... she call's basement the "office", and other things "I don't remember".

Last thursday I asked for transportation assistance from a friend (82 years) to my 12/2 block, to lay it down in my parents' place, and along the way people asked the reason I wanted that engine (they see it as scrap). The only answer I could muster was that it was to preserve some history of the village.

I promised them that engine will show his smoke...

Cheers.
VP
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on February 24, 2019, 09:59:03 PM
Well done Pedrosa for being the person in your village who cares about your history and heritage. Once you have it restored and on show, the local people will stand and stare in awe at the simplicity and beauty of this old engine. They will also be ashamed and wonder why they never thought to preserve such a wonderful item themselves.

Now that you have got it home you get the joy of cleaning 60 or more years of crap out of it. When I did mine I got so dirty my wife would not let me in the house. I had to strip off all my clothes outside!

Good luck, have fun.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: glort on February 25, 2019, 12:09:17 AM

 When I did mine I got so dirty my wife would not let me in the house. I had to strip off all my clothes outside!

This seems a new and abnormal concept to you Bob.
I used to do it as a matter of habit and still have recently.  At the old place we had a shower in the laundry I could enter from out the back. Here I have to come into the house to get to any shower. I get in trouble for leaving dirt and bits of plants on the carpet even when I am stripped butt naked.
There is now a cake of soap next to the back tap as I have also been banned from washing hands and face in the laundry tubs and making them dirty.

I have already been reminded there is plumbing up the shed for a shower and a toilet and We should look at setting up a bathroom up there so I don't have to walk through the house and make the inside showers dirty when I wash off.
Thinking maybe I should just put a kitchenette up there as well and move the spare bed in the shed into the new area and be done with it!  :-\
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on February 25, 2019, 06:38:20 AM
Hi Glort, having grown up and spent most of my life in the UK I learned that taking ones clothes off outside was a bad idea, not because we Brits are shy or prudish but because it is too bloody cold!  :laugh:

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: EdDee on February 25, 2019, 07:52:10 AM
Having 13 acres of man cave plain, a rule has come about: If you don't like what you see, look away...

Walking butt naked from the front yard through the house to my room to shower has happened before... Not because I am going to get shat out for leaving a trail of oil/grease/debris, but because I am the one that has to clean it up... One of the very few disadvantages of being a bachelor.... On occasion, particularly hot weather, the tenants bring me a beer while I am waist deep in grease and grime, closely followed by "Why don't you go have a nice cool shower...I'll clean up after you...." That usually means there are friends over, they bribe me with a frosty to avoid shocked looks from the visitors... ;D ;D ;D

Lol
Ed
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on February 25, 2019, 08:08:26 AM
Hi Guys. I have been wondering how Butch manages to insert images in between his text rather than at the end. There is a button on the post screen called "Insert Image" it has a very small picture of the Mona Lisa on it. When I click on this icon it places IMG text on the post but does not tell me how to insert the image. I am guessing that the attachments and other options button is used to insert the first image up to 4 per post. Anyone know how this works?

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on February 25, 2019, 08:26:34 AM
Hi Ed, I very much doubt I will be able to persuade the Wife to do the "clearing up after me while I have a shower" bit. If we have guests and I am dirty I just get banished to the shed until they leave. In the past some of the guys have come down to my shed to see what is going on, it`s usually more interesting than the conversation the Ladies are having. One cold refreshment leads to another (all quality home brewed beers), before you know it all the men are in the shed drunk as skunks and all the Ladies are furious with us for our bad behavior. No wonder we don`t have many visitors these days.  :laugh:

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on February 28, 2019, 10:13:07 AM
Hi Guys, sorry it has taken me so long to post an update. Even when I was a young man, I was never the quickest worker. Now I am old and buggered up things take forever. That said I have completed the tear down of my ETB engine. Not an easy task for a man who can`t pull on a spanner, every nut and bolt involves beating the spanner with a rubber mallet!  >:(

While this rebuild will take me months I will post some photos as I go.

My first impression of the engine was that a 2.5 HP four stroke diesel engine is rather pointless, my push mower has a 6 HP petrol engine! I have changed my opinion, I can see how a farmer in the 1950`s might want a small cheap and reliable engine to run a small irrigation pump or charge battery storage, it could also have been use for driving conveyor belts or even cooling fans.

I am astonished at the build quality, that a small foundry in rural New South Wales could produce such good castings and then machine them so well in 1950 is extraordinary. Where did they get the foundry men and machinists from, who put up the capital for what must have been state of the art production equipment back then.

A few early observations are that this engine has a duplex drive chain to run the camshaft and a simplex drive chain to drive the oil pump. The crank shaft and all bearings are pressure fed with only the cam followers and open camshaft bearings being splash lubricated. Very advanced for an agricultural engine that must have been designed in the 1940`s.

While I have cleaned and primed the outside of the crank case, I am in two minds about painting the inside. This engine was built in 1955, so, working on the basis that the original owner was lazy and only changed the oil every year, this engine has had 50 plus changes and that should have flushed out any casting sand and other detritus. It has been degreased and pressure washed, there is some rust which I have mechanically removed, should I treat it or not?

Anyway a few photos to keep your interest.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: glort on February 28, 2019, 12:43:32 PM

You sure have brought it up nice already Bob. Looks good just in undercoat!
I have no doubt it will look better than new when you are finished.

The chain drive sure is a long way from todays engines.  New engines like Briggs & shitten have PLASTIC cam hears and blower vanes on the flywheel.
Always have been garbage IMHO.
I wouldn't be worried about sand. Thing is not made in Rajakot and what sand if there was any in the first place isn't going to do much now.

I think you are doing well with it. I have no physical problems but I struggle every day to things just to overcome what's in my head.

Your observation about the limited power is interesting. I have been looking at a few things lately like guys putting 6 HP motors in cars and small tractors and through gearing they can do work you just wouldn't credit. Sure they may not break the speed limit in a school zone but you can do a lot with a little power if you are in no rush and gear the power you have Correctly.

I was out using my little plough today readying a garden bed for the winter crops.  8 Hp motor I run at a fast idle and the only way the thing stops is if some thing breaks.  Sure it moves slower than walking pace but if you had it driving something that weighed 2 ton and was on tracks, it would go through brick houses.

Have you any idea what you want to do with it when completed?  I could bring you up a 12V 80A self reg alternator if you wanted to make a battery charger out of it.  The alts have serpentine Pulleys but I could bring you a larger one to drive it with but I have found the 7 rib serpentine's drive pretty well with a B series V pullly.  I doubt 2.5 Hp would drive the alt to full amps but even  50A is one hell of a battery charger and a little engine like this would be economical to run all day when a battery/ bank is tailing off and you can only trickle charge the thing anyway.
My Roid is flat out pulling 2 of these alts at max throttle but they would still make good power with 2.5 Hp input I reckon.

I think back in the day everything worked on low power because people weren't in such a hurry for one thing and economy was an even more important factor that it is today. Also things tended to be over built and under stressed back then where as now days things are pushed hard and built as light as possible. When your engine was built it was intended to still be going now, when a new engine is built today they know exactly how many hours the thing should run and not an hour longer. Instead of repair, rebuild and re use, now it's simply throw away and buy new.
You don't put plastic gears in anything you really want to last a long reliable life.

Coupled to an inverter, I reckon you'd get at least 500W from an engine like this driving an alt. Probably quite a lot back in it's day when most light bulbs were  25 and 40W.
Even more now when LED's are 4 and 6W  :0)
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: guest23837 on February 28, 2019, 10:27:12 PM
Did you have much trouble taking out the head bolt?
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on February 28, 2019, 11:01:41 PM
Hi Guys, I was expecting terrible trouble with that corroded cylinder head stud but I think that the thing was so wasted that it had stretched and was loose. All the bolt are UNC or UNF, the head studs are UNC into the block and UNF at the head end. I`ll probably have to make replacements. I only broke one stud during disassembly (timing gear cover) fortunately there was enough stud left protruding to get a wrench on it. The engine came with one stud that had sheared off below the surface of the crankcase, I drilled it and got it out with an easyout, happy days!  :)

This engine  is intended to run at around 1500 RPM but the power take off is from the camshaft which will only be running at 750 RPM so Glort`s idea of running a car or truck alternator to charge a battery bank looks like a good one, just got to get the gearing right. I think that I will probably make a small trolley for this engine, it is small enough to easily take to a show.

I have tracked down a man in Toowoomba, where these were originally made, he has a limited supply of spare parts including an injector and pump, saves me the trouble of trying to source suitable alternatives from Bosch.

Anyway it`s time for me to go and get dirty again, got to get as much done as I can before the end of the month when I am having the first of two surgeries on my hands. I`ll post more this evening.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: dieselspanner on March 01, 2019, 07:02:44 AM
Well done with the easy out, takes a level of calm and skill I struggle to attain!

Best of luck with the hands.
Stef
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 01, 2019, 09:42:12 AM
Thanks Stef, I am just like you, I hate having to use Easy outs, there is nothing easy about them! They generally work well if you have a steel bolt in a steel or cast iron hole where you can apply a little heat to loosen things up. They are completely useless in the case of a steal bolt in an aluminium castings where they usually just strip the thread out. I remember many years ago having exactly that scenario and deciding to drill out the damaged hole before taping a thread into it, I then made a threaded aluminium stud which I screwed into the hole, this was cut off flush with the face of the casting. My intention was to drill and tap a new hole into the now filled hole, so to secure the aluminium stud in place I got out the TIG welder. Big mistake, turned out the casting was magnesium alloy and I nearly burned the shop down, took two buckets of sand to extinguish the flames and I couldn`t see properly for days!  :laugh:

Not too worried about the surgery, it`s supposed to release pressure on the nerves. If it works then I will have no further deterioration and might even recover some of what I have lost. If it doesn`t work then I am f*cked, but since I am already f*cked it doesn`t much matter. I believe the recovery time is about a month and then I have to go for more physiotherapy. Not looking forward to having to sit and do nothing again, there is only so much Judge Judy and Dr Phil that a man can watch without going mad!  :laugh: Unfortunately as soon as I recover from the first surgery they are going to schedule the second surgery on the other hand,. This will be followed by another round of daytime television and physiotherapy. I can only assume that this is my punishment for being a horrible c*nt in a previous life.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 01, 2019, 10:58:46 AM
Well Guys, I got good and dirty again and managed to strip and free up the seized oil pump, this is a very nice little unit with spring loaded impeller vanes, it has some surface pitting but should be OK.  I also had a lot of fun with the oil strainer which was solid with a mixture of dirt, rust and solidified sump oil, it has been soaking in a vat of petrol for a week, hitting it with a pressure washer has cleared out the last of the crap . Both are now clean and functional and have been fitted to the crankcase.

I also had a go at cleaning up the camshaft, it also has some rust pitting but I think I can polish out most of this with some very fine wet and dry paper or flour paper.

Photos attached,
Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 07, 2019, 10:24:05 AM
Hi Guys, Yesterday I managed to get the crankshaft back in the ETB. It has some rust pitting on it most of which I have polished out. I did consider having it reground but having measured the journals I found the main bearings to be only a half a thou under size while the big end shows only one thou of wear. I do not plan to put this engine to work, instead I plan to get it to running condition and then take it to a couple of shows, it will probably run for less than a dozen hours a year. While I would have liked to rebuild this to as new condition I cannot justify the expense, so it is just going to be a toy, I very much doubt that the small amount of rust pitting will be a problem with those sorts of running hours.

The main bearing bushes are solid brass units with a white metal coating and are in remarkably good condition. I spent most of yesterday messing around making gaskets out of various sized material until I got the crankshaft end float down to five thou, the manual states a minimum of two thou but gives no maximum, I think five should be fine.

Today I refitted the camshaft with new bearings, the originals had corroded solid. I could not get open bearings as per the originals and had to pay for sealed bearings and dig out the seals, I also flushed out all the grease as these are going to be splash lubricated with sump oil inside the crankcase.

Tomorrow I am hoping to get the timing chain back on but I have come up against an interesting problem, the manual states that with the crankshaft at top dead center, the two timing marks on the drive sprockets need to be in line. The problem is that there are three marks on the crankshaft sprocket and two on the camshaft sprocket. Fortunately I took a lot of photos during disassembly and should be able to work it out.

Anyhow I`ve posted a few picture to give you all something to look at.

Bob

Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: mikenash on March 07, 2019, 10:44:53 PM
Looks good Bob.  Re those "unsealed" bearings.  Do you reckon they'll be OK metal-to-metal if you have flushed them out until some of the splash feed dribbles down to them?  Just a thought.  Will be interested to see it running.  Thanks for the photos & updates.  Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: glort on March 08, 2019, 11:05:01 AM

You are an inspiration Bob!
Your detail to attention is great as is your mechanical knowledge.  I think you sell your skills a bit short, I bet if put to use this  engine once you have finished it would outlast a modern disposable type with no trouble at all.

I have used lots of parts with pitting and found as long as they were linished, they pits are below the surface not above it so don't matter if they are light and occasional.


I used to rebuild a lot of hot 2 strokes.  I used to purposefully pack the bearings with grease for break in when I rebuilt them.  Yeah they could be a bit smokey for a while, never gave a damn about that and I never had any trouble from it. Grease just dissolved and went through and after  a bunch of hours was all gone and the bearings were clean as normal.

If I tore the engines down for a look see I would re pack the bearings with grease again as I often changed the rings and thought the grease may help.
It sure never hurt as my bores had the cross hatch way beyond what would normally be expected.

Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 08, 2019, 11:25:50 AM
Hi Mike, all good, everything is being lubricated with a heavy duty diesel lubricant as I go. This engine also has an oil pressure bypass valve with a spring load indicator rod which rises out of the crankcase indicating that there is adequate oil pressure before dropping the decompression lever, the idea being to ensure everything is lubricated before any internal fire begins. A very simple and ingenious alternative to an oil pressure gauge.

I got in serious trouble with she who must be obeyed today, she went out for what was supposed to be three hours, I decided that this would be a perfect opportunity to boil the old timing chain in detergent sump oil to remove rust and etc. I lit the barbecue and filled an old stainless steel cooking pot with sump oil, once it got to temperature I dumped the old chain in it and started stirring, at this point my Wife returned and was very unimpressed that the whole house stank like a car mechanic`s workshop! Wife is still pissed but the chain looks good.

I decided I would tackle the job of cleaning the aluminium flywheel shroud today, what a bastard of a job! The fly wheel oil seal must have been leaking for the last sixty years, the inside of the shroud was covered in a mixture of oil and dust which had decayed into something resembling tarmac! I hit it with everything I could think of: degreaser, petrol, diesel, pressure washer, caustic soda, sand blaster all to no avail. In the end I spent seven hours doing it with a hammer and chisel. I was planning to paint the inside of the shroud with an etch primmer but I think it will have to stay as it is, I just don`t have the strength to clean it any better than it now is. I did manage to clean the outside to a respectable condition and give it a couple of coats of etch primmer. 

Anyway I`m knackered and going to bed, I`ll try to fit the timing chains tomorrow,

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 08, 2019, 11:45:17 AM
Hey Glort, thank you for your encouragement. I suspect that this engine is probably good for another couple of thousand hours but only time will tell. I don`t believe that the reason for this effort is to produce a useful working engine but instead to salvage a bit of our industrial heritage for the next generations to admire, enjoy and hopefully appreciate.

I am hoping to have this done before my surgery at the end of this month, sadly I won`t have the new injector pump and injector by then so first smoke could be a while.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: glort on March 09, 2019, 12:56:56 AM

The oil pressure " signal" is a stroke of rare Brilliance.
I have noticed this thing a lot of people have that an engine should start the second  you apply pressure to the key. I never understood it.
If I put the choke on my mower and turn the key it will light on the first compression.  I don't think that's good.  I leave the choke off and wind it over about 5 sec then push the choke on so it fires with some priming of the oil pressure at least.  many industrial engines have lockouts so they wont fire till there is minimal oil pressure and certainly in the old days if not so much now you  wind wind a race motor up till it got some pressure then fire it.

Maybe they recognized these engines could sit for long times and din't what the things lighting off bone dry especially if they may be direct connected to load anyway.


I don`t believe that the reason for this effort is to produce a useful working engine but instead to salvage a bit of our industrial heritage for the next generations to admire, enjoy and hopefully appreciate.

The reason matters not Bob.
The huge credit to you is you are doing at all and under difficult circumstances. The preservation mind set is just a greater credit to you.  Maybe you should just put it in your will in case it slips your mind in the next 40 years time when it will be needed, that the engine goes to a Museum or engine club or something?

Like many of us, you are working with a severe handicap which makes these tasks all the more difficult and taxing.  These things while we still may enjoy them are diminished in satisfaction through these things that we are burdened with but have no way around.
If only we could turn the wives " off" when we wanted to work and play ( and buy) our engines and load them with a filter that precluded them ever from complaing about the things we enjoy,  so many difficulties of this work would be lifted and the job would be so much easier and more enjoyable!
Lets face it, who hasn't dreamed of just having a bed, TV, Kitchen and shower in teh corner of a nice big workshop so we can get breath in that heavenly scent Of 30 weight and bearing grease 24 hrs a day?   You managed to fill your home with that sweet perfume and the accomplishment was not appreciated.  I'm sure she is a wonderful woman but they just don't really understand what makes us happy do they?

How is it no such thing has been invented to turn the wives off or educate them in " Complaint Management" to avoid such negativity?
I know some really smart people who could have come up with something like that and they are married too so it must have occurred to them!!

All we need them to do is admire and congratulate us when the task is finished, happily wash the piles of stinking clothes and ignore any Mes... by products of the construction process until they are resolved as well.

I am always saying to my Mrs, If I say I will do something I will and you can rely on my word. There is no need to keep harping and harping about it over and over every 6 months!

While I have to admit she is pretty good, I got grief off my Mrs for the last round of purchases the other week.
We had a heart to heart discussion and I told her I need something to do to enjoy myself, something to be able to put some effort into so I can sit back and look at what I achieved and I was worried about power supplys in the coming years and building these enerators would give me peace of mind wether they ever got used or not.
 I said I have little interest in anything these days, I spend next to nothing on them in the big picture and she is always saying go out and get a hobby or do something and this for now is what I want to do. I have had this inkling I want to get a little model plane of late as well but that's another separate Psychological disorder .

She seemed to understand but me being the mongeral I am, had to put it to the test so about a week later I asked her what she was doing on the weekend and if she wanted to go for a drive.  Told her I wanted to pick up an engine I bought.  She said is this one you bought the other week, I said no, this is a different one.  Only retort was I better get my arse up that shed and clean out space for all these damn things because she does NOT want them sitting round the yard. Once the shed is full, that is IT!  Wow! A shed full. I think that made me aroused!
I guess she understood after all.

I might sit down now and see if there are any other toys going I want.  I'll ask her to transfer the money on Monday..... after her surprise birthday party Tomorrow!!  :0) I learned that bit of Diplomacy a while back too.  Always remember their birthday, never how old they are.... unless you are short by at least 5 years!

Of course it is a bit hard to complain about me buying engines when she is planning a new Kitchen that despite my best effort to put the brakes on, is clearly going to be a $50K  money pit time it's all said and done.  I thought when I said OK it would be $20K. Next time I'll do my homework a lot better before I say a damn thing!   :embarassed:

For that money I'll also be installing a shackle point set into the concrete through the tiles so I can chain her in there and get my moneys worth!!   >:(

Quote
I am hoping to have this done before my surgery at the end of this month, sadly I won`t have the new injector pump and injector by then so first smoke could be a while.

Bob

Look on the bright side Bob, it will give you Something to look forward to when you have recovered.
Bit of light work installing it and all will be done.  Don't forget that first Fire Video!
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 09, 2019, 11:28:18 AM
Hi Glort, I to love the simplicity of an oil pressure indicator, the one in the photo is f*cked and I will have to make a replacement. The idea is so simple, there is an oil pump which delivers oil to one of the main bearings, this oil then flows through the crankshaft to the big end bearing and then on to the other main bearing. Once the pressure rises to an adequate level it overcomes the spring on the plunger mechanism allowing oil to bypass the main crankshaft journal and spill out onto the timing chain. The oil then flows back down into the bottom of the timing chain cover where it lubricates the oil pump chain which is immersed in it. Engineering perfection, everything lubricated with a minimum of moving parts!  :)

I love the idea that you crank this engine until the pressure indicator rises before releasing the decompression lever, such a simple way of guaranteeing longevity.

I think your experience of women is similar to mine, love them to bits but couldn`t eat a whole one in one sitting!  :laugh:
In fairness I wouldn`t be here without the nursing care my wife gave me and I can`t imagine a life without her.

I am glad you raised the issue of birthdays, it is my wife`s birthday tomorrow (10 March), I`m hoping we can go for lunch somewhere but she has a medical appointment on Monday and the doctors have prescribed beta blockers before those tests can be done. She took the first pill this morning and has been wasted ever since, she took another pill about an hour ago and I will probably have to carry her to bed. On the upside she probably won`t remember it`s her birthday and certainly won`t remember if we celebrated it or not. The best present would be for the doctors to find out what is causing her blood pressure issues and find a reliable treatment.

I had a play with model aircraft years ago, I loved building them and setting up the radio control systems, trouble was I was useless at flying them (sad for an ex-air force man). I built lovely models and then destroyed them during their first flight, I`ll stick to diesel engines on the ground for now, unless we need to drop some on Dresden again!  :laugh:

With respect to what to do with my engines, when I am gone, I have given my wife very strict instructions that they are be gifted to a very worthy cause: The Glort museum of Internal Fire, they are to be delivered by road unless you upset her at which point she has my permission to deliver them from 40,000 feet!

Please wish you lovely wife a Happy Birthday from Bob and Narelle.



Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 09, 2019, 11:32:30 AM
Sorry Guys, I forgot to upload the photos, so here they are.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: glort on March 09, 2019, 02:06:20 PM

Your engine looks great already Bob.  It's going to come out brilliant.

Ironic about what I said earlier about race engines not being primed any more. I was wrong. I was just watching some vids and noticed the cars always took a while to fire. I thought that was odd but being race engines. Then I saw one and they said that the engine management system was programed not to fire the engine till it had 40PSI of oil pressure.   Didn't even realize but apparently having oil pressure is still a concern, it's just programmed in, not something the driver has to watch a gauge for then kick the spark in.

There are so many of these tricks they did on old engines years ago, one wonders why they don't still have these features and then you realise, they don't want things to last too long these days or be rebuild-able.

If you do rally this engine, -I- thing it's always much nocer to see them doing something.  Pumping water round in circles, Lighithing up a few bulbs, whatever but always seems better to me they are doing SOMETHING  no matter how irrelevant rather than just sitting there idling  which seems a total waste.  Not that pumping water in circles is productive but it looks better in my mind.
If you wanted to do that I'm sure I have an old brass pump or 2 up the back I could donate. Would need a new impeller for sure but they shouldn't be hard to get. Either that or a  car alt I could give you.  Don't have much in the way of lights unless you'd like to put a couple of Subaru liberty lights on the transport ( could bring the grille, gaurds and a bumper if you wanted as well)  but there are a stack of Tail light bulbs no one ever seems to want any more and H4 headlight globes.   Half dozen of those bare around the engine would stand out even in daylight!

I hope Your wife is OK, how co incidental their birthdays are a day apart!
I was only talking to someone about Beta blockers yesterday when they were suggested to me.  I can't tell whether I am better or worse with this stuff, any of it.

I hope Narelle is better tomorrow and you do have a nice day and things go well Monday. Sometimes these things just knock you a bit at first and then you get used to them.
I have to go play nurse for my Dad in a couple of weeks. He is having his cataracts done and I know what a great patient he's going to make!

Not sure if the Chief here has cottoned on to anything yet.  I did some tidying up today which is always suspect but I think I put on a good act with doing it to keep her happy and off my back and asking if she wanted a birthday party next weekend.  She said it will be too late then. I said Why? we can't have it before, that's silly,  you always have it after if you can't have it on the day but we'll go out to dinner  that night.

Wants to go look at tiles for the kitchen floor tomorrow but I feigned being annoyed saying I had something on.  She of course wasn't happy I wasn't going to go but I got stroppy and said right, you want to drag me there so you can ask what I think then reject every suggestion I make as usual, Out the door at 9am and back by no later than 12:30. No stopping for breakfast or a coffee, No just going to look at this or that while we are there, Out, look, back or go on your own.  Daughter wants her out the way so she can prepare.

She asked what I was doing and I said going to the engine show which she fell for. Put a couple of cameras on the Kitchen table earlier tonight which she asked what they were there for and I said take to the engine show of course! Geez I can sell porkies!

Silly woman, she should know after all these years the engine shows are May, September and October.  None round here in March!!

I gave her the giveaway and she missed it.   :laugh:
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: dax021 on March 09, 2019, 07:42:26 PM
One of these days she is going to read your forum postings...........then you are going to be in the brown stuff.
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: glort on March 10, 2019, 07:04:06 AM
One of these days she is going to read your forum postings...........then you are going to be in the brown stuff.

And this would be Different How??   :laugh:

Definately in the good books today.  Took her out this morning looking at floor tiles and was patient ( even though I was having a melt down on the inside) and had time to spare so we got coffee and had a wander round another place looking for some household things.
Daughter rang as the signal and said when will you be home for lunch and I said  I'm coming now, don't  want to get to the engine show too late.  :laugh:

Came home, everyone was here but hidden and jumped out and gave her a big surprise.
Real nice afternoon that she didn't see coming . My daughter did an excellent job catering and really did do some delicious food.
I'm probably good till Tuesday now.

I said to mrs I gave her the clue with the engine show and she said she was a little suspect not because of the timing but because I wasn't out the door at sparrows  to be there like normal.


I hope Bob's wife was able to enjoy a nice lunch with him and all goes well with the tests tomorrow.   
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 19, 2019, 10:07:17 AM
Hi Guys, sorry for not having posted much recently, between my health issues and those of my Wife rather a lot of time has been consumed by doctors, pathologists and etc.

I have, however managed to finish the crank case assembly and also the flywheel. Took me three days to get the crud off the flywheel, a leaking crank case seal had covered it in oil that then mixed with the Australian dust to form a quarter inch thick layer of tarmac! I have also managed to clean and reassemble the rocker assembly. Photos attached.

We now get to the difficult part which is finding spare parts for an engine made in the 1950`s. There are a lot of bits that cannot be reconditioned so replacements must be found. I have had contact with a couple of Southern Cross experts and sent them a spread sheet detailing the bits I am missing. I am not expecting to find everything I need and so will have to resort to manufacturing or machining them myself, I will let you know how the process goes.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: dieselspanner on March 19, 2019, 08:33:33 PM
Looking good!

Cheers
Stef
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: glort on March 20, 2019, 09:21:50 AM
Hi Guys, sorry for not having posted much recently, between my health issues and those of my Wife rather a lot of time has been consumed by doctors, pathologists and etc.

You were noticeable by your absence Bob.  I was thinking of you and your wife hoping things were going well. Maybe not as well as any of us hoped?

Looks like you have made good progress anyway. Hopefully this has been a good distraction and a motivation.
Maybe you might have to find yourself a nice little lathe and a mill to help the projects along?

Was at a mates place the other day in his vast shed.  Bought himself quite a large lathe with a lot of features on the thing which seems in very good nick.
Only problem is, he has no idea how to work one. I suggested YT might help him out.  He bought it for one very specific purpose so I guess he won't need to know a lot for his needs.

I could use it any time I wanted but not the same as having one in your own shed.
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 20, 2019, 11:11:06 AM
Hi Glort, sorry to let the side down. You will be pleased to hear that my Wife is having her last tests tomorrow. I am hoping that this will result in a definitive diagnosis and a permanent treatment regime that works. My own surgery has been knocked back by two weeks so I have a little more time to spend on engines before I become temporarily disabled again.

There has been some movement in the legal battle I have been having with the insurance company. I am hoping that I may finally get some compensation for my injuries and loss of income. Once that has been dealt with I am going to have to sell my home and move closer to the medical care that we both require, and away from this beautiful rural property that I can no longer maintain.

I have no idea of where to start looking for a new home, I couldn`t live in a city again so I have to find somewhere rural but close to a city. My Wife has ambitions to live in Tasmania but I am unsure about how we would cope with the cold winters having lived in the heat of northern New South Wales.

Where ever it is, I shall being setting up a full machine shop with the intention of doing as much old engine renovation as I can, before my time runs out. I am not thinking of this as a business just a hobby which might bring in a small income.

If your mate with the lathe doesn`t know how to use it please advise him to go to TAFE or even the local Men`s shed for tuition. Operating any machine tool without the necessary skills is a recipe for disaster, I have personally witnessed the results of these sorts of industrial accidents and they aren`t pretty.

One tool that I definitely want is a boring machine, something that could easily be used to re-bore and sleeve old cylinders. I will probably have to settle for an older universal milling machine, with more modern tooling. I would love to own a Bridgeport milling machine, due to their versatility, but I doubt they would make a good boring tool for larger cylinders.

A Colchester 1600 or 2000 lathe is also on my wish list along with a smaller tool makers lathe.

Anyways it`s all just a pipe dream at present.

Bob

Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: glort on March 20, 2019, 02:04:52 PM

Geez Bob, very sorry to hear about you having to sell up. Very unfair.

You should come down here to where I am.  Cows and horses every where, plenty of wide open spaces and acre blocks just big enough to have plenty of toys without too much bush to over whelm you.  All the benefits of the city center being an hour away but the endless advantages of living in the country.
You might want to do it sooner rather than later. I went to visit a guy with a treelopping business today. Owns 30 acres about 3Km out of town.
Was telling me how the developers had been coming round regularly and were offering $1M per acre for his land.
 $30M bucks would be quite handy for a fit and able 41 yo guy!

He just bought a lister as well!

I could come and annoy the shi...... eeerrr, visit    you every day and run you round to your medical appointments and kick their arses if they got slack. Experience with that going back to my teens with my grandmother when I looked after her. They hated me but Gran always got their best efforts and attention. I made sure of it by questioning everything I wasn't happy with or felt she was getting duck shoved on.  Did the same for my father in law looking after him when he was crook. 
I tell you Bob, Nurse Glort comes walking in with you in the white Frock and steel capped boots with my Goatee and typical 5 day growth and you WILL get looked after real well!


I'd be great therapy for you both!.  After a week, 2 at best, with me hanging round, you'd both be gathering up all your belongings and running clear across the water with them on your back to get to Tassie and away from me far as you could get!
You'd never feel crook again after that!!

 ;D
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 21, 2019, 09:08:52 AM
Hi Guys. looks like I need to make a miraculous recovery or nurse Glort is going to hunt me down!  :laugh:

I didn`t get much done today buy I did go to visit my old mate Tom the tractor collector. Here are a couple of photos of what he does for fun.

Also a couple of pics of old stationary engines he is willing to part with.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 21, 2019, 09:12:27 AM
I also picked up a nice little piston pump which I will be fitting to the ETB when it is finished.
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: glort on March 21, 2019, 10:06:35 AM

Nice little Pump.
Last time I was at my Uncles place at Casino he had one of those on a petrol Lister rusting away in the Paddock.  Think they were well gone past redemption but he seemed to think they were fixable.

I have been for a ride on one of those Field marshal tractors. 10litre single Cylinder. Talk about thumpers! Did a vid with my go pro but it wasn't very good. Not much you can do to steady the vibrations of one of those things!

I see there is also another southern cross there with a gen head on it.  Interesting......   ;)

Some men have all the good toys!
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 21, 2019, 12:33:08 PM
Hi Glort, the Field Marshal tractor is an amazing beast, single cylinder horizontal diesel engine. It can be started with a hand crank alternatively it also has the facility for a cartridge start, just like early aviation engines. You drop the cartridge into a hole, screw down the cover and then strike the firing pin with a hammer, bang, and away she goes.

If your Dad still has some of those little piston pumps hanging around let me know. I`m pretty sure I`ll get them going, this one is all steel brass and cast iron and corroded solid, what could go wrong?

Not a Southern Cross, sadly, but it is a 4 HP petrol Cooper engine, nearly as desirable. It has the original cast iron base plate and a cooper/sunbeam 32 volt generator head. It is intact except for the magneto and fuel tank, it is also seized. Tom wants $340 for it, which is what he paid for it ten years back. I would love to own this myself but think that it would take a lot of time, money and enthusiasm to restore. I still have some enthusiasm but not much of the other two. I`ve dropped a couple more photos of it at the bottom of the page.

Bob





Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 22, 2019, 10:51:06 AM
Hi guys, In did get a bit done today, piston and con rod cleaned, balance weights cleaned, made new replacement tab washers for big end bearing caps and balance weights.

I have a dilemma, (please see photos) if you look at the big end bearing cap it has a locating pin to keep the white metal bearing in place. I have two sets of ETB78 new old stock white metal bearings, the locating holes are different on the two options I have available. One set of bearings lines up with the joint between the con rod and the cap while the other set is offset so the bearing joint is parallel with the piston skirt. I am thinking to go with the second option. Anyway what do you guys think?

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 22, 2019, 10:55:32 AM
Sorry Gents posted the wrong picture you need this one to make a sensible choice.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: oldgoat on March 22, 2019, 12:53:33 PM
Looking at the photo of the 32v generator it looks identical to one i have but it has a Westate plate on it.   I'm wondering who made these and stuck the appropriate tag on it for the various buyers
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: sirpedrosa on March 22, 2019, 07:01:46 PM
Hi Bob

I think the correct set is that is offseted, and parallel with skirt, or as we see perpendicular to con rod. But this engine is only to showoff, not to loads, so it can take any set. IMMO.

Cheers
VP

PS: By the way, have you find a suitable injection pump an injector?
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: mike90045 on March 22, 2019, 08:04:14 PM
>  Anyway what do you guys think?  Bob

Glad you asked !  I think you are awesome

>   a bit done today, piston and con rod cleaned, balance weights cleaned,
> made new replacement tab washers for big end bearing caps and balance weights.

That would take me a month to figure it all out ....
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 22, 2019, 11:00:28 PM
Thanks for the support Guys. I think I will go with Pedrosa and use the off set bearing so the joint is perpendicular to  the crankshaft. If it causes any problems I still have the other set available and can swap it in about a half an hour.

The old piston is a little corroded but shows very little sign of wear or scoring, the piston crown is a very unusual design and has a small chip out of it. (see photo) I am going to take it down to my local sheet metal worker and ask him to fill the dent with his tig welder.

I have found a guy called Len who lives in Toowoomba, where this engine was originally made. He has most spares available including fuel pumps and injectors. I will probably have to make the fuel pipes myself. I am hoping he can provide me with new piston rings. Failing that I  will have to go through the catalogs and try to find a suitable set from a lawnmower or motorbike.

Bob


Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: glort on March 23, 2019, 04:11:38 AM

I have never seen a piston with a Raised Piece like that. Generally anything with some sort of redirector for the fuel is either sunken or in the head like mercs have on their IDI engines.

Just the clearance that necessitates to the lower part of the Piston from the head is amazing.
Do you know what the comp ratio is Bob?
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: dieselspanner on March 23, 2019, 07:35:40 AM
Hi Bob

If the engine will run on without repairing the piston I'd be inclined to leave it alone.

Whilst there's every chance the repair will hold, if it does detach it's self (incompatibility of metals, thermal shock and stuff like that) a chunk of metal flying around the upper cylinder is going to play the cat and banjo with the valves and bore.

'swot I fink, anyway......

Cheers
Stef
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 23, 2019, 09:24:37 AM
Hi Guys. Thanks Stef I was thinking of leaving the piston as is and see how it goes. So you just saved me having to buy the local sheet metal worker a sh1t load of beer, guess I owe you a couple now! I do have access to a new piston if this one causes problems.

Hi Glort, there is no mention of the compression ratio in the manual, however there is an oil filler plunger into the intake manifold which raises the compression ratio on start up. so I am guessing at somewhere around 17 to 1.

The piston crown is pretty radical, as is the cylinder head (photos attached). This is very advanced engineering for an engine that was first made in the early 1950`s and must have been designed in the 1940`s. There are no locating pins or dowels in either the block, cylinder or cylinder head, so the only alignment between the piston up-stand and the hole in the cylinder head comes from the 5 cylinder head bolts. That might well explain the dent in the piston. I will try to upload the PDF manual so you can get the overall view.(I have had trouble sending PDF files before)

I also discovered why this engine was taken out of service, the exhaust port was coked completely solid. I suspect that the piston rings were worn and burning oil choked things up good and proper, I did wonder about the valve guides but they appear to have minimal wear. Perhaps they were burning crude oil or something similar.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: Willw on March 23, 2019, 04:50:52 PM
Hi Ajaffa1, I buy hard to find piston rings from this guy in Greece. He sells them by bore size and ring thickness, and I have had good service from him.

In his Ebay store click on "cylinders, pistons, mufflers" then click on" individual piston rings". You can choose based on your old rings, and if necessary repair a worn ring groove by purchasing a  thicker ring, them widening your worn ring groove in a lathe to match the new ring.

He advertises rings from 19mm to 450mm. That's 3/4 inch to 18 inches. That's some range :o

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Piston-Ring-Set-for-BRIGGS-STRATTON-76-2-mm-3-000-499921-391669/170915005624?epid=1400654809&hash=item27cb5404b8:g:grcAAOSwjKFZOb5u&frcectupt=true (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Piston-Ring-Set-for-BRIGGS-STRATTON-76-2-mm-3-000-499921-391669/170915005624?epid=1400654809&hash=item27cb5404b8:g:grcAAOSwjKFZOb5u&frcectupt=true)
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: sirpedrosa on March 23, 2019, 09:57:49 PM
Hi Bob

+1 to Stef, I'm with him.

And I think there is nothing fancy with that piston, because from what I have studied and researched, the ancients spent much time studying things in detail.

I think the geometry of that piston was studied for the way of expansion of the combustion at the moment of injection, so that the pressure in the cylinder head does not cause stress in the metals.

Bob, you're restoring an engine that was dead, the small gaps will be the only thing that will allow it to work. You just want it to work, not the maximum speed.

My Bernard has the intake valve with a brutal axial clearance, so I know I should not squeeze with it.

Good work, keep on.

Cheers
VP
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 25, 2019, 10:47:16 AM
Hi Guys, thanks for the ebay site Willw, I have ordered a couple of oiler rings from him.

Today I had to go see the shrink again, about renewing my gun licence, guess what she is not prepared to certify me as sane and worthy of a gun licence until I have undergone all the surgery I have scheduled and I have settled my dispute with the insurance companies. This is likely to take 18 months or more, while my weapons stay in my gun cabinet, on my property with my having 24/7 access to them. The shrink bills the gubermint $250 a month for each assessment, so she has every reason to continue doing so for as long as possible. Had I been homicidal or suicidal the regulators would have been two and a half years too late. What a crock of Sh1t!  >:(

The Australian law states that a policeman/woman must inspect my gun storage every year, I haven`t seen one for six years! Typical of gubermint to enact laws they they can`t afford to implement and enforce. I have for years, wondered what would happen if I found an intruder trying to steal my weapons. Since my license is suspended, legally I am not allowed to touch them, so I have to stand by and watch the criminal steal my weapons, which he could then use to kill me and my wife.

The alternative is that I break the law and use my weapons to persuade the perpetrator to foxtrot oscar, at which point he will phone the police to report the incident and I will be arrested and charged because the perps will be long gone and it will be far too expensive to track them down and I will be an easy conviction.

I suspect that the answer to all of this is to report a break in, weapons stolen and wave my hands in the air.  Any later intruder will be given the option to FO, failing that there are hundreds of thousands of acres of state forest around here.

Anyway, my rant for the day is over so I should tell you all about how my engine restoration is going.

I have stripped and cleaned the cylinder head. I spent eight hours with files, chisels and etc cleaning out the baked on mud wasps nests, I then sank the entire assembly into a vat of caustic soda. I left it overnight to soften and I then connected it to the battery on my ride on lawnmower, while still submerged (electrolysis). It has come out very nicely and has been spray painted with a high temperature exhaust manifold paint. I will leave the paint to dry overnight and then it will go on the barbecue to bake in the morning.

Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: sirpedrosa on March 25, 2019, 02:12:50 PM
Hi Bob

Nothing like your engine to get you out of those gun ideas.

I liked that of the "foxtrot oscar".

But if some intruder escapes into the forest, it gets easier to catch him, you throw fire into the forest that he's going to come out. Lol, just kiding... Winter just gonne and we have already fires.

I'll selling my "irons" to buy parts for the Lister.

And now we also have the psychologist for the renewal of the license (I do not need it because I'm still in the active, but once retired it has to be, so I'll dispatch them sooner).

You did eletrolysis with caustic soda? That is dangerous. Why not with sodium carbonate?

Cheers
VP
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: glort on March 25, 2019, 03:29:57 PM

Engine is coming on real Nice bob. Something to look forward to and speed up the healing process.

When I got my Pistol License I was supposed to have the gun safe inspected first.  There is a lot of back and forward with handguns ( hate to think what bullshit there is now) and I took the forms to the local cop shop  and the guy signed off on everything by mistake.  Had 4 then that were kept at the range but he signed to transfer them into my care.

I pointed it out and he said do you have a safe? I said yeah, been waiting on you to look at it.  He said no worries, I'll make an appointment and you can take them home anyway.  COOL! Then he ran round the station showing the other cops all my toys.   ::)

About 8 appointments and 6 Months later the guy finally came to see it.  So many times he'd say  there were no cars available. I'd tell him, I am literally 3 Min and 2 corners away, Nup, I'll see you week after next.... and the next month cause he's on hols then will be in court and then....

Walked in when he finally did turn up, Kicked  the safe and said that's not going anywhere, no worries.  They had to be bolted through a floor Joist ( which it was just coach bolted into) so I said I'll show you where to get under the house to inspect it. Bit if a tight squeeze.... Nup, no worries, all good. I said but you have to inspect it. He said there is nothing to inspect or you wouldn't be so keen for me to look at it.
Sales.... greatest skill in the world.  ;D

Thought about getting my Pistol license again, I really miss comp shooting and I was pretty good at it.  I have looked at it and The crap they have now I couldn't be bothered.  I doubt they would give me one on Phsyc grounds either but then again I don't even know if they still look at that unless you have had some legal incident and I haven't so.....
The one thing that got me with shooting was you could be on a range with 30 hand cannons going off around you ( I used to shoot falling plate with high power factor a lot) and getting the hell stung out of you with the back splatter and it was the ONLY time in my life, then or now, I really could clear my mind of everything and be in my zen  or whatever the fk it is  when you are really calm and clear headed and can just peacefully concentrate. Never been able to do that at any other time.

And then I see these people like golfers and billiard players that go into a hissy fit because a Budgerigar that was 200M away passed wind while they were lining up a shot and the noise threw them off.   ::)  Take a tablespoon of concrete and harden the fk up!


Talking about break in's......

I once interrupted a Robbery at my favourite Pizza place I used to go to every tuesday night after gun Club.  Shooting, Pizza and home just in time to watch star trek that came on at 11:30 then.  Tuesday was a GOOD night.
Was standing at the counter with my gun briefcase I always took in cause I wouldn't leave them in the car and these 2 Clowns come in with this Knife and threatened the owner and his Mrs for the money in the till.  Right while I'm standing there 3M away.

I opened my briefcase and Said just take my money and leave them alone.  Next thing they were looking down the barrel of my little pet Gp100 .357.
It's true, people actually can turn white right in front of your eyes. It they had a brain they would have easily seen the Cylinders were empty and no one carrys a loaded wheel gun in a briefcase but then again if they were smart they wouldn't be trying to roll Pizza shops.

They left in a big hurry then took me the next 15 Min to convince the owners wife not to call the cops because I would get in trouble.  Took some explaining that even though I stopped these guys and I was helping them, I  still was not supposed to have my guns with me and not supposed to stop anywhere between the range and home. I don't think she ever really understood  how it could be possible I would get in trouble for stopping people robbing them.  That was a long time back and things were screwed up even then.  One guy in the club had bogan neighbors that got a skin full and smashed a window and were yelling at him to come out his house one night.  So he did, with a ( unloaded) shotgun.  He nearly lost his licenses for that and the bogans got away Scott free.

I always felt the Pizza guy was wary of me because sometimes I'd forget to take my holster off and walk in there with my bag. I think he saw me open it once to get my wallet saw what was in there and was worried I was going to roll him. 
After that, he and his wife were always very friendly  and must have said thank you to me every week I went there for about 2 months till i asked them to stop.   They never let me pay for Months. It was a bit embarrassing after a while but they would never take take anything Till I said I couldn't come back any more.  Then I always got free extra's like garlic bread and home cooked pasta. 
Such lovely people. Every time I see a pizza I see them in my mind and remember things from back then.

What I wouldn't give to go back to that time in my life. Ground hog day of a few years there would have been so much more preferable to going forward that's for sure.
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 26, 2019, 10:30:00 AM
Hi Guys, what irritates me is that guns don`t kill people, it`s people that kill people, guns just make it easier. If I wanted to off myself or someone else it would be easy. I have a kitchen full of knives and a medicine cabinet full of legally acquired prescription drugs. In my shed I have enough tools to build a house including four chainsaws, log splitters, axes, dozens of razor sharp chisels and etc. Why do they believe that I am now such a hazard to myself and the community when the really dark days were 2 years ago, and I got through them unaided and without killing anyone!  >:(

Anyway back to engines. The painted cylinder head component went on the BBQ this morning, the temperature was allowed to climb up to 500 Fahrenheit. They were then allowed to cool slowly. Once cool, the valves were lapped with a fine grinding paste.(please see photos)

There is no seat for the bottom of the valve springs to locate in so the designers included a brass ferule, which goes onto the valve guide. Please note that I fixed these in place with some gasket silicon which should provide an oil tight seal and stop things moving around, I will clean off the excess once it has hardened. (see photo)

Finally I fitted the springs and rocker assembly, there is a little adjustment in the rocker assembly to ensure that the rockers strike the valves cleanly, I will adjust this later once the head is fitted to the cylinder and the push rods are fitted. (see photo)

I have now started the awful job of striping down the small piston pump that I intend to couple to my engine. It is very badly seized up and I had to cut the main shaft into three pieces to dismantle it. It will be easy to turn a new shaft on the lathe, trying to press out the old bearings and pulley wheels would have broken the base casting which would be a bugger to repair. I`ll post some pics tomorrow.

VP, why did I do electrolysis in caustic soda? Because I am lazy and couldn`t be bothered with swapping out all the fluids, worked out OK.

Glort, if there is something that gives you peace of mind and clarity of thought please go and do it, regardless of the cost and aggravation involved.

Bob


 
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: glort on March 26, 2019, 12:26:28 PM

Geez Bob, For an incapacitated man you sure are going ahead with this at a good rate.
You will be able to open that Vintage engine repair shop when you have recovered from your Op.
I'm sure this will make a more than fine engine for rallys or if you wanted to put it to work.

I was commenting on another forum  about an incident that happened a couple of Fridays back.
Talking about gun Control ( of course) and I said everything I need to commit an atrocity or level buildings is right at bunnings.  I said half the things I play and experiment with need a lot of attention not to take myself and half the neighbour hood out. I said every DIY person out there knows how to take things out because they know what not to do and not having a gun would not be any kind of a hindrance.  I pointed out what had been done with cars and trucks let alone knives and the the moronic stupidity of thinking miracle away guns even if you could would stop sickos hurting people was as ignorant as they were moronic to think it would change a thing.

 I mentioned my Hydrogen experiment and how easy it would be to make a very explosive gas with nothing more than drain cleaner and water and put it in a gas tank and encase that in whatever I wanted  and take out everyone within 100M. I said forget Bunnings, give me the Cleaning aisle at the supermarket and run for your Life!  ::)

One looney lefty sook then made a big song and dance of having reported me to the national security hotline and said I was a threat and could be a risk to people. Clearly thought he was real clever and the thought police would be banging down my door in hours.
Unfortunately it backfired and the owner of the site kicked him for wasting the agency's time and bringing everyone and the forum under the microscope just because he didn't like what was being said.

Lets face it, who here couldn't make some devise or know how to take people out?  We know what not to do and what we have to be careful of not to take ourselves out. It's hardly a sinsister plot to cause anarchy. What shits me is as soon as anything hit the fan, these softcocks would be running to the DIY types like we all are here to help and look after their useless arses.

After an incident a few years back my doc had me running back every week, at least. After a bit and realizing every thing was as good as could be expected, she said something and on a rare occasion of being on the ball, I asked if I was on Suicide watch or something?  She was cagey but as good as admitted I was.

I laughed and said You have no idea what I do for fun and interest. If I wanted to off myself I'd fire up my DIY  generator to about 600V that will do 15A and make it look like an accident so my Mrs could get the life insurance money.  I said there would be no half measures, I have to try hard NOT to off myself, no shortage of ways in my mind to do it.

Who the hell wouldn't know if you want to off yourself all you have to do is sit in the bath and drop in any electrical appliance or even a lead that's plugged in  or take a heap of over the counter pain killers and booze and game over.

Also amazes me how the soft of heart and head think gun laws will prevent people getting killed when clearly the people that do such things are not worried about laws concerning murder which don't get any tougher far as i know.

I'd like to hook some of these morons up to one of the spark plug leads on my ute for 10 Sec and give it a rev.
Electro shock therapy couldn't do them any harm even if it didn't wake these clowns up and do them any good.  >:(


Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 28, 2019, 08:09:56 AM
Hi Glort, if I were of the homicidal type I`d not be buggering about with chemicals or hydrogen. Liquid Petroleum Gas is just as effective, you don`t need a licence to buy it and its available in every town on earth. I`ll leave designing a delivery and ignition system to your imagination. (I am in no way advocating this sort of behavior, just pointing out the inadequacy of government thinking).

Back to engines and etc, I have stripped down the old piston pump. It is in a very sorry condition with all the moving parts worn beyond repair, fortunately the main brass castings are in very good condition, everything else I can reproduce.

The cast iron base has been cleaned, primed and had it`s first coat of Brunswick Green. In the morning I will start to build the trolley cart that it will sit on. Looking forward to a bit of carpentry for a change, it will be nice to fire up the planner and thicknesser  after all this time.

14 days to surgery, got a lot to do before then!  :laugh:

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: glort on March 28, 2019, 10:45:55 AM

That's an Aussie icon you have there Bob, a Marino Pump.  Named after the sheep that were all over this place once..... and now are not.
Then again, NZ is supposed to be over run with sheep but all the times I have been there I have seen far more cows.

I don't know if they were supposed to be Brunswick Green though, they are Aussie not Pommie ya know!   :laugh:

I wonder if anyone in any country town has ever put 2+2 together and thought to themselves when someone comes in asking for Brunswick green, " Ah yeah, another old fart doing up a Vintage engine".

Got to admit, I did ( mostly) like the colour wee willy winky pained his  $20,000/ 8000/12000/222000/ 10000/12000 again engine in a tan colour with highlights. That wasn't bad except for some red bits  here and there that looks stupid but the rest was OK.
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 28, 2019, 12:12:40 PM
Hey Glort, the original colour was green. Sadly there isn`t enough of it left to determine the actual shade of green, so I`m going with what I`ve got. It was made in Brisbane and has a patent number but no date. Strangely all the moving parts are metric sizes rather than imperial. I guess the founders were European rather than British or American.

While I`m here I would like you guys to take a look at this: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

This is probably the most frightening thing I have ever seen, average income per capita in the US $32,000. Debt per US taxpayer at $180,000. National debt rising so fast the graphics can`t display it! Might be time to hunker down, bad times are coming. There is no way the US government can keep a lid on this indefinitely and when it goes bad you can be sure it will go bad worldwide.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: glort on March 28, 2019, 10:00:13 PM

The US Debt is no surprise Bob. They have been careering down the debt road for many years now and I think if anything in more recent times they have put the brakes on a touch compared to what they were doing some years back.  I was reading a while back from several sources they owed China more than they were worth.

Then again, I look at other parts of that table and they say China and every other country owes big time so i'm not sure of the paramaters they are measuring or what the results mean.
I personally think a more worrying thing is on another page of the site where it lists Population numbers.
The modern business model is all about growth and you need more people for that but how many you can have and still have a decent life style and support them is something else.

This is the reason you will never find me giving to one of those " Feed the starving" charities.  They have been trying to save the starving for 50 years since I was a kid at school. If they have been at it 50 years and by their own accounts, the problem has got worse, then it's a terrible failure ( or a complete Money making scam) and needs to be looked at one way or the other.

I don't think we need to worry about world economy as much as we do the power grid in this country.  I see that as far more of a risk to lifestyle  and the population than anything else right now.  If we have a total grid Collapse, families will be going hungry and there will be anarchy right here in Oz.
No power, no nothing really.

Morons were contacting 000 the other week when farceboob was down. Imagine the rioting when not only can't they get face waste but they can't even charge their life support machine!

Citys will be burned tot he ground because they won't know what the hell else to do and have no way of anyone telling them how to think as usual.

Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: sirpedrosa on March 29, 2019, 02:20:50 PM
Hi Bob

You can't trust does figures. As US president daily says, it's all fake news, so those numbers are also fake numbers.

Those clocks are simple to hypnotize people, and so they think it's there won blame.

Enjoy a beer while they tik on.

Cheers
VP
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on April 03, 2019, 11:22:44 AM
Well guys I`m sure you all think I`ve been sitting on my arse doing nothing, I have however built a nice little display cart. All of this has been done with out spending any money, with the exception of the new wheels that cost eight dollars each.

The wearing surfaces at the front are made from an old chopping board, my Wife got a new one and I re-purposed the old one.The front pivot is and old wrist pin from my Lister ST2. I think this is going to turn out rather well, once it`s had another couple of coats of boiled linseed oil.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on April 03, 2019, 11:26:01 AM
A couple more pics to show where I am trying to go with this

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: glort on April 03, 2019, 01:21:36 PM

Very Nice Bob!
Looks like furniture quality.

I'll be sure to remember not to put up pics of any trolleys I build to save myself the embarrassment!

The Nylon Chopping board was a great idea.  I'll steal that one ( and the Mrs Chopping board) for sure!
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on April 07, 2019, 09:58:53 AM
Thanks guys, I do appreciate the kind comments.  I have been busy making an adapter plate, three studs below and four above to  allow me to mount the ETB onto the Marino pump chassis. See photos.

I have now mounted the engine and fitted the fan shroud, along with the wind driven governor assembly. See photos.

I will be fitting the flywheel in the morning, once the paint has dried.

God it gives me the sh1ts when I go to the steel stockist and ask him for a piece of 25mm  bright steel round bar, when I get home I find that the muppet has given me one inch bright mild steel round bar that won`t fit in the metric bearings I purchased.
I have two choices, turn it down to 25mm or do a 100km round trip to get a replacement!  >:(

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on April 07, 2019, 10:00:32 AM
Just a couple more photos to keep you happy.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: glort on April 07, 2019, 12:05:36 PM

Wow!

So far from finished but already looks great and the attention to detail is very evident.
If this is what you do with Crook hands, can't wait so see what you can do when they are good again.

I had a similar thing last year when I bought a pulley for my plough engine.  Told the guy the correct metric size, got the imperial closest..... which didn't fit.
Took it back ( Only 15 KM for me each way) and he told me " It's close enough, should fit".  I think the manager came in just in time to hear me ask " Are you an idiot or just trying to take the piss? I told you the correct size, do you have it or not? "
Manager got me the right one which lesson learned, I confirmed with my own verniers before moving from the counter. Had I a brain I would have taken them the first time and checked.

Can't trust anyone these days to have any knowledge of the game they are in or to give you the right thing.

The Pics are very inspirations thanks but I look forward to the Vid of it running.
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on April 07, 2019, 02:13:22 PM
Thanks mate, the day of reckoning for my left hand is this Friday, hoping things will work out OK. I have a mate who I hope will be continuing the work once I am incapacitated. I will be supervising him!  :laugh:

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on April 10, 2019, 10:03:42 AM
Well guys the last day to be useful is tomorrow. So I had a good day today, turned up the new pump shaft and bushes. I don`t have access to a milling machine so I can`t cut the slots for woodruff keys, I do have a decent drill press so I chose to drill and fit shear pins as an alternative. I doubt this will cause any problems as this is only going to be a display piece and will never be put to any real work. I think I might use it to filter and dry waste vegetable oil when it is not on display, or even as part of the display.  I have always liked the idea of a diesel engine that makes it`s own fuel, might be an interesting thing to demonstrate at an old engine rally.

Tomorrow I will have to have a bit of a clean up and touch up the paintwork. I`ll also put a couple of coats of clear varnish on any naked steel to prevent it rusting while I`m incapacitated. Anyway a couple of photos to keep you amused.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on May 08, 2019, 09:43:23 AM
Hi Guys, while I have been crook, I have had the opportunity to polish a lot of brass and bronze, one handed. Soul destroyingly slow and boring but marginally better than daytime TV. I also managed to bush the small end of the connecting rod and file enough material off the mating surfaces of the big end to bring the clearance down to 3 thou.

The original brass nut on the Marino reciprocating piston pump was beyond repair and all my efforts to source a replacement were unsuccessful. I went to visit one of my neighbors, Ken Inglis, who has the ability to cast aluminium from waste. He provided me with a suitably sized aluminium billet which I was able to turn into the nut shown in the photos below.

I also managed to turn up a new stainless steel piston and wrist pin. I cannot begin to explain how tedious it is trying to work a lathe with only one good hand but I am very happy with the results. Tomorrow I have to got into town to get some gland packing, with a bit of luck I should soon be able to post some pics of the assembled pump.

I still have to find the time and materials to make up new inlet and outlet valves and seals for this old pump but I am hoping that I will have it all done for the local rusty metal rally in August.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: glort on May 08, 2019, 10:41:40 AM

Wow!
Beautiful work as always.
You are a fair Dinkum embarrassment Bob. you can do more with one hand than I can do fully articulated.

It might seem slow  but you are certainly achieving something. I suspect that your regular slow working will result in a far faster build than many of us get with a few hours here and nothing for a month, or 6 , and then a couple of hours there with another long absence method. And lets face it, you are making good use of your recovery time in which no one would expect you to be doing anything!

If you ever need anything simple cast in aluminium that your friend cant do or he is just short of ally, let me know and I'll do something up for you or send you some raw stock.

I was thinking of casting the Mrs a heart in ally and mirror polishing it for mothers Day and having it engraved but walked around today and couldn't find a suitable template. Loads of foam Balls, letters and numbers in every size but not quite the same significance.
Daughter is going to try cut something out from some foam tomorrow for me. If that goes well i'll drag out one of the burners , scare the neighbours and their sheep and do a pour.  If it's not quite finished by Sunday, I can always do it later in the week.  Knowing her she will probably like it rough cast or partially anyway.

If you need any round, or whatever, put your order in now!  :0)
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on May 08, 2019, 11:48:20 AM
Hey Buddy, glad to hear you like what I`ve been up to, difficult to explain the grief I have had from Narelle about doing too much to soon or getting my hand dirty.

Aluminium casting is something I have never tried, I might ask to watch Ken next time he is doing some. If you can`t find a suitable template have you thought of sculpting something out of candle wax?

I have recently been watching a couple of YouTube videos about sand casting and the current trend is to make your patterns using a 3D printer. Looks to produce very good results.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: EdDee on May 09, 2019, 11:21:13 AM
Lovely stuff indeed Bob!!

Well done!!

Try sheets of polystyrene expanded foam to make the positive for sand casting.... Works reasonably well too...

(That's if you don't have a 3d thingy to play with...)

Cheers
Ed
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on May 10, 2019, 09:24:36 AM
Thanks Ed, I like the idea of using polystyrene to form a template for sand casting. I wonder if spray foam or fixing foam would do the same thing.

I don`t have a 3D printer but would be interested in the technology when the price comes down a bit. I read your post about moving the milling machine, I was lucky enough to spend several years operating these wonderful tools and I am hoping to buy one in the near future.

Not much achieved today but I did manage to fit the new piston to the connecting rod and fit the new gland packing, very pleased with how it all looks. Still a little too much play in the big end so I guess I will have to get the file out again.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: EdDee on May 10, 2019, 09:48:52 AM
Hi Bob,

It might indeed, but haven't tried it yet...This does present an idea... If you silicon rubber coat a master positive, then peel off carefully, use that silicon mold with spray foam to make multiple foam positives for casting....

Milling machines are the best thing since canned beer....except for my lathe of course...or beer....or rum and coke....or....

You need to build one of these things (see pic below) all the pulleys and wheels etc I cast in ali as blanks and machined them to size (beer cans for the small wheels, coffee tin for the drive wheel mold)... You will hardly touch a file after that...

Incidentally, I did exactly what you are doing a while back... The big end on a Honda 340 petrol if I remember...only thing I did differently was to squash it oval on the fly press while bolted together, then separate and sand the half shell a bit smaller and undersized, re-assemble, then bore to correct spec on the lathe using a face-plate... About 50c worth of raw material costs/electricity, 1hr of hobby time, and a more than happy friend who had his genset up and going again....

Every bit achieved is a step in the right direction!!

Cheers
Ed
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on May 11, 2019, 12:08:20 PM
Hi Guys, now that the stitches in my hand have been removed I can do a bit more. so today I tackled the pressure bottle that is part of this old pump. It works by moderating the pulsing water pressure from the piston to produce a steady water pressure rather than a pulsing water pressure. The problem was that the base of the unit was flogged out, so I have filed out the worn parts and fitted a new center bush which was soldered in place with plumbers solder. Please see photos. The bottle was polished and sprayed with a varnish, hopefully it will look good and be functional for years to come.

Bob

Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on May 11, 2019, 12:33:09 PM
Further to my previous post I now have a question for the forum. This old pump has two brass valves with sealing washers, one for inlet and one for outlet. When I acquired this pump it was in bits and did not have any springs behind the valves. Does anyone know if this unit originally had spring loaded valves or was it all done with gravity and water pressure? Photos attached.

I have calculated the number of piston strokes per minute at between 150 and 200, so I suspect that this pump originally had some sort of stainless steel spring above each valve, very similar to the valve springs used in a pressure washer, the travel on each valve is around 1/4", if anyone has any knowledge on this please share it.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: glort on May 11, 2019, 01:32:05 PM

The polished brasswork is beautiful.
I used to do that with odd bits and pieces with a buffing wheel with an uncle. To keep the brass Nice I found coating it with clear car lacquer  worked very well and preserved the finish of the brass by sealing out the air and contaminants.

Had a padlock on a shed door I polished and lacquered that looked perfect for years.
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: mikenash on May 11, 2019, 07:01:28 PM
Bob, any of those old pumps I have seen have a stainless or brass thin washer that follows the rubber or leather sealing washer and which supports a coil spring. Most I have seen have a tapered thin coil spring made from stainless wire

Traditionally you bought a "service kit" for them when they stopped working every few years

See pic?

Cheers
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on May 11, 2019, 11:56:30 PM
Hi Mike, not much chance of getting a service kit for a pump that was made in the 1940`s. I guess I will have to adapt whatever I can find on fleabay. I`m also going to have to rework the original valves, I was thinking to replace the worn shafts with stainless steel.

Any idea what sort of pressure I should expect to get out of this contraption? It would originally have had a pressure gauge which I would like to replace.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: mikenash on May 12, 2019, 12:25:31 AM
Y'know, most rural service towns have a pump shop with some old fart who knows all about these old units - there's still a place here that works on ones similar to your cos people continue to use them because they are positive displacement units.  So if you can find a pump shop and just ask them about springs you might get lucky with a close match

That said, if you look at what's happening when the piston goes back and forth - there's pressure on one side and suction on the other, probably?  If that's the case, the spring isn't withstanding pressure, it's just holding the rubber "valve" in place maybe?

See the springs in the pic?  They're light - maybe anything like that you can find will do?

If it was in good shape maybe it would do six or eight bar?  Maybe 100PSI or a bit better?  Just a guess - no way of knowing really.  Gauges are cheap anyway - put a cheap one on and look around for a good one once you understand the pressure range?

If you have a look on google for some pumps with a similar physical structure, find a pic with a name/ID plate visible, then google the "pump curve"  - that will give you an idea

I will watch with interest.  Cheers
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on May 12, 2019, 01:23:06 AM
Hi mike, went to my local pump shop last week looking for gland packing. Asked the guy about springs and seals to fit old piston pumps, sadly the owner cleared out all his old stock recently. He only deals in centrifugal pumps now.

Bought myself some 40mm nylon round bar that I am going to Sikaflex to the face of the valves, I will then face them off in the lathe to give me a decent seal.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: mikenash on May 12, 2019, 01:50:29 AM
Interesting

Somewhere there will be a stash of that old shit - and the know-how.  In a small town I bet

Wouldn't surprise me if the seating "valves" want something softer than UMWHE type stuff?  But I don't really know why I think that.  My memory is of rubber valves around 40mm diameter with a full-width washer behind them - kinda like a penny washer - so ghey may have been designed to be both soft and rigid?

You'll figure it out

Cheers
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on May 12, 2019, 10:36:44 AM
Hi Mike, I have one of the original washers, it`s past it`s useful life but appears to be a composite with two nylon faces with a softer fabric or rubber layer in between, presumably these were reversible. The original is around 3mm thick, my plan was to use 2mm of Sikaflex and 1mm of MDPE, hopefully the rubberized adhesive will provide enough of a cushion to stop any hammering. I guess I will just have to try it and see what happens.

Bob
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: Cockie on November 07, 2019, 02:28:16 AM
Bob,
Good to see you version of the cart, that's different having the front wheels inside the frame, I like the concept. I expect to take delivery of an ETB in the next week or so, it's coming over from Magnetic Island, where it was pumping water for domestic use. Do you have a photo of the completed project? I would love to see them as I intend to couple my ETB up to a IBC piston pump.
Dave
Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: ajaffa1 on November 07, 2019, 09:35:05 AM
Hi Cockie, sadly I do not have photos of the completed engine as I have had a devil of a job finding any engineering company willing to fit a sleeve to the cylinder. I now have three cylinders and a cylinder head, for various engines, awaiting machine work in Alstonville NSW. They will cost me around $2,000! I would have done the job myself if I could find a milling machine at a sensible price.

If you need any advice with your rebuild please contact me. I have a few contacts for parts and etc. Once you receive your engine you should register it with the southern cross registry, they will email you a whole lot of information and a service manual. It`s a free service. Good luck

Bob

Title: Re: Southern Cross ETB diesel engine
Post by: Cockie on November 08, 2019, 03:03:40 AM
Thanks Bob, Ian the SC register guy, is a fellow member of North Queensland Machinery Preservationists, yes he has a lot of information, on anything Southern Cross.